OT Source in NT

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Posts 43
Marc Brule | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Sep 13 2021 9:01 AM

When I find a reference to OT in the NT, I want to find its source, ie. is it quoted from the LXX or the  MT. Is there a way to do that in Logos 9 Platinum?

Thanks,

Posts 119
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2021 9:58 AM

I’m working on my iPad at the moment so don’t have access to the desktop.  Two ways come to mind:

  1. Tools > Interactives > New Testament Use of the Old - you can filter on the left-hand side by both source and destination. 


  2. Parallel Passages in the Passage Guide will also usually bring up a reference to an OT citation. 

if those don’t work, many Bibles also have a footnote to OT citations. 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2021 10:16 AM

GregW:
OT citations

I think the problem is that the OP wants to know which source the author cited/translated. This is much harder to do. The "easy" cases would be where all the known Hebrew manuscripts read different than all the known LXX manuscripts (i.e. the LXX used another, not yet found Hebrew text as its source) and the NT clearly resembles one or the other. In many cases we wouldn't know whether the author cited the LXX or another Greek source or translated MT or another Hebrew source - made even more difficult by the fact that people most often cited from memory rather than copying from a written text. One could use a LXX paired to a Greek version of the MT and then, on a case by case basis, decide which resembles the NT text. 

Sounds like a book I have yet to see in Logos.

Large textual commentaries on Greek NT books probably should inform about that in their treatment of such passages.

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 94
Phil Quigley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2021 10:24 AM

It's not in Logos, but Gleason Archer and Gregory Chirichigno have a pretty thorough treatment of the subject. (Old Testament Quotations in the New Testament)

Posts 29
Rifhen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2021 12:01 PM

If you have Beale's Commentary on the NT Use of the OT it will often provide the information you are looking for if it is a direct quote.  It will also go deep into the background of the OT quote, its reception history and how it is being used in NT passage.  In some cases it will also do this for allusions - e.g. "This is my beloved Son" at Jesus' baptism. 

This is one of my favorite bible study resources, I really think it is just amazing.  If you don't have it and have a particular passage in mind let me know and I'm happy to screenshot so you can get an idea of coverage (assuming that is allowed on the forum).

Posts 1665
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2021 2:01 PM

NB.Mick:
In many cases we wouldn't know whether the author cited the LXX or another Greek source or translated MT or another Hebrew source -

Good answer, but there is some humor in the NT writers using the MT.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2021 2:07 PM

Geeked

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2021 2:48 PM

DMB:

NB.Mick:
In many cases we wouldn't know whether the author cited the LXX or another Greek source or translated MT or another Hebrew source -

Good answer, but there is some humor in the NT writers using the MT.

Thanks. Cool For clarity, I probably should have written "some proto-masoretic text" instead. 

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 43
Marc Brule | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 15 2021 5:22 AM

NB.Mick:

GregW:
OT citations

I think the problem is that the OP wants to know which source the author cited/translated. This is much harder to do. The "easy" cases would be where all the known Hebrew manuscripts read different than all the known LXX manuscripts (i.e. the LXX used another, not yet found Hebrew text as its source) and the NT clearly resembles one or the other. In many cases we wouldn't know whether the author cited the LXX or another Greek source or translated MT or another Hebrew source - made even more difficult by the fact that people most often cited from memory rather than copying from a written text. One could use a LXX paired to a Greek version of the MT and then, on a case by case basis, decide which resembles the NT text. 

Sounds like a book I have yet to see in Logos.

Large textual commentaries on Greek NT books probably should inform about that in their treatment of such passages.

Sounds like there's not other way than some form of deep diving. I was hoping for something quick and easy, isn't that one of the reasons we buy Logos? Smile

Thanks for the helpful and clear response. On to the increased workload!

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 15 2021 5:42 AM

Rifhen:
If you have Beale's Commentary on the NT Use of the OT it will often provide the information you are looking for

This is certainly very valuable in doing this analysis

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 3148
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 15 2021 6:24 AM

DMB:
there is some humor in the NT writers using the MT.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 1665
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 15 2021 9:39 AM

Doc B:

DMB:
there is some humor in the NT writers using the MT.

Embarrassed

A Biblical scholar was discussing a quote, saying it was clearly the Samaritan. As St Paul struggled upwards through the Cilician gates, his donkey mightily braying (in donkey-talk), an in-depth library of choice Biblical manuscripts loaded on his back.

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