Christian-Jewish relations

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Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Sep 13 2021 11:03 AM

Hi there, everybody!

I'm doing a lecture series on 1st Thessalonians. Now I've come up with the difficult passage of 1 Thessalonians 2:13-16. My initial thoughts:

  • Any ideas (or Logos resource recommendations,books etc.) as to how to search the subject of Christian-Jewish relations?
  • Any Logos exegetical resources / search methods that show the totality of St. Paul's thoughts on the relationship between Israel and on the Church (and/or the development of his thoughts) ?
  • Any resources / search methods that pinpoint to as how the relationship of the Church and Israel has been viewed in later times (Antiquity, the medieval times etc.) and per famous theologians (reception history, or whatvever you call it)?
  • To be clear: I don't want a specific apology of any viewpoint, just a general overview
  • Any resources / search methods that shed light on how to interpret this difficult passage in the Post-Holocaust world?
  • Any search string that would help bring out the more "pro-judaism" passages in the New Testament?
  • We lutherans don't have a good history on this subject, because of Luther's Von den Juden und ihren Lügen, you know? I don't want to make that mistake...

Any help will be much appreciated!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2021 10:34 PM

One search idea for 1 Thessalonians 2:13-16 is looking for relationship OR relations:

(relationship OR relations) WITHIN {Milestone <1Th2.13-16>}

that can be refined with proximity search for Jew OR Gentile:

((relationship OR relations) WITHIN 33 WORDS (Jew OR Gentile)) WITHIN {Milestone <1Th2.13-16>}

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2021 11:14 PM

I spent a lot of time looking at this when I prepared a Bible study class on Thessalonians. I wouldn't overemphasis this in light of the fact that this is just like most of the supposed anti-Semitic passages in John. What people do is read into the issue. Paul isn't talking against Jews because he is one. He is pointing to the Jewish authorities. This is much the same issue in John. There is a wonderful article on how John actually references multiple different Jewish groups in the gospel and you have to read it carefully so that you can see that the Jews that Jesus was calling out were the ones who wanted to have him put to death. He would still go to the cross and forgive them all.

All of the letter is to a persecuted Christian church. Paul, of all people, knew what is was to be Jewish persecutor. He was rubbing his own nose in his past dealings. But as Jesus said love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you 

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Thomas Pape | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 13 2021 11:24 PM

Screenshot (123)

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 14 2021 8:41 AM

Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari:
I'm doing a lecture series on 1st Thessalonians. Now I've come up with the difficult passage of 1 Thessalonians 2:13-16.

Without speaking to the need for quality whitewash (not you), but the most fascinating part has to be, who cut Isaiah in two.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 14 2021 3:02 PM

Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari:

  • To be clear: I don't want a specific apology of any viewpoint, just a general overview
  • Any resources / search methods that shed light on how to interpret this difficult passage in the Post-Holocaust world?
  • Any search string that would help bring out the more "pro-judaism" passages in the New Testament?

A Passage Guide on 1 Thessalonians 2:13–16 would give access to your Commentaries and Parallel Passages (esp. those in Romans). The Cross References would also be useful.

Dave
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Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 16 2021 10:53 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

One search idea for 1 Thessalonians 2:13-16 is looking for relationship OR relations:

Thanks for these tips!

mab:

I wouldn't overemphasis this in light of the fact that this is just like most of the supposed anti-Semitic passages in John. What people do is read into the issue.

This passage is burdened with history… Multiple glasses through which to “read into the issue…”

DMB:

the need for quality whitewash...

Indeed!

mab:

Paul isn't talking against Jews because he is one. He is pointing to the Jewish authorities... All of the letter is to a persecuted Christian church. Paul, of all people, knew what is was to be Jewish persecutor.

Very good points! I’ve come across the same points, now that I’ve studied the passage. You summarize them nicely!

Tomas Pape, thanks for the tip for a Messianic Jewish Base Package!

Dave Hooton:

A Passage Guide would give access to your Commentaries and Parallel Passages... The Cross References would also be useful.

Thanks, Dave! I usually start with the PG. The reminder about Cross References was useful!

The most useful searches and/or search terms besides normal exegesis and PG so far have been: deicide, anti-jewish, antisemitist, antisemitism. Theologically: supersessionism, replacement theology, Sonderweg, Nostra Aetate.

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