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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 2 2021 6:49 PM

Does anyone like Leedy's diagrams? How important are they?

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 2 2021 7:43 PM

My two cents: I don't diagram Greek sentences anymore, but if I did, I might find Leedy helpful in correcting my work or helping me see things in a different way. So, it would depend on what you do when you approach the Greek text and if you diagram, whether having someone else's similar work might be something you'd like to look at.

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Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2021 5:59 AM

Christian Alexander:

Does anyone like Leedy's diagrams? How important are they?

I really appreciate Randy's efforts here and they are a very valuable resource to have. They will help you see the flow of the text more clearly and therefore help you in your exposition of the text. However, with that being said, keep in mind that they are not morphologically tagged. Basically, I appreciate what Randy did, it is excellent, I am just not to thrilled with what Logos did with it. Basically, what you have in the resource are bitmap pictures of the diagrams that are absolutely NOT interactive whatsoever. The frustrating part is that Logos had been promising this resources for almost a year and then when it finally comes, it is pictures, not interactive, morphologically tagged diagrams. I was frustrated at that, needless to say, as where many people who waited for a year for picture. We would understand waiting for actual interactive diagrams, but not for pictures. But anyway, if you buy it with the understanding that they are not tagged then you will find the resource very helpful. I am fortunate in that I can read Greek; although not having them tagged in still kind of frustrating, but if you cannot read Greek, it will still be helpful but it will be more difficult. Kind of wish that if Logos was just going to use pictures, that they would have had it translated into English for those that cannot read Greek. But again, let me emphasize, what Randy did is excellent and I am so appreciative of the work that he put into it. I wish Logos had done things a little different. And there are many that have a similar complaint. 

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2021 6:07 AM

Mark Smith:

My two cents: I don't diagram Greek sentences anymore, but if I did, I might find Leedy helpful in correcting my work or helping me see things in a different way. So, it would depend on what you do when you approach the Greek text and if you diagram, whether having someone else's similar work might be something you'd like to look at.

I am digging into the Greek text of John and am wanting to diagram the prologue of John's Gospel. Does Logos have something inside it as a workflow or guide that works similar to Leedy's work? I am not seeing his work in Logos. Is it there?

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2021 6:10 AM

Pastor Michael Huffman:

Christian Alexander:

Does anyone like Leedy's diagrams? How important are they?

I really appreciate Randy's efforts here and they are a very valuable resource to have. They will help you see the flow of the text more clearly and therefore help you in your exposition of the text. However, with that being said, keep in mind that they are not morphologically tagged. Basically, I appreciate what Randy did, it is excellent, I am just not to thrilled with what Logos did with it. Basically, what you have in the resource are bitmap pictures of the diagrams that are absolutely NOT interactive whatsoever. The frustrating part is that Logos had been promising this resources for almost a year and then when it finally comes, it is pictures, not interactive, morphologically tagged diagrams. I was frustrated at that, needless to say, as where many people who waited for a year for picture. We would understand waiting for actual interactive diagrams, but not for pictures. But anyway, if you buy it with the understanding that they are not tagged then you will find the resource very helpful. I am fortunate in that I can read Greek; although not having them tagged in still kind of frustrating, but if you cannot read Greek, it will still be helpful but it will be more difficult. Kind of wish that if Logos was just going to use pictures, that they would have had it translated into English for those that cannot read Greek. But again, let me emphasize, what Randy did is excellent and I am so appreciative of the work that he put into it. I wish Logos had done things a little different. And there are many that have a similar complaint. 

Hello there. Thanks for this idea. I am a bit unsure. I want something to help me map out my diagrams. Does Logos have something similar? Dr. Dan Wallace was my best friend in seminary and he always told me to diagram everything I did in Greek. I think that diagramming is a key component to proper exegesis and application of the Greek text. Any advice is appreciated.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2021 6:14 AM

Christian Alexander:
I am not seeing his work in Logos. Is it there?

The direct reference to his diagram of Jn 1 is here: https://ref.ly/logosres/gntsentdiagsbl?ref=Bible.Jn1.1-51 (if you don't own the resource, FL should offer it to you at that point). Note: That's the SBLGNT-based resource - there's also a NA-based one. Probably the few differences don't warrant buying both. 

If you look around, there are freely shared Logos Sentence Diagram documents for much of the NT (not sure whether JN 1 is among that, though) which would give the opportunity to change and annotate, whereas Leedy is only pictures, as Mark wrote. 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2021 6:20 AM

Christian Alexander:
I am a bit unsure. I want something to help me map out my diagrams. Does Logos have something similar? Dr. Dan Wallace was my best friend in seminary and he always told me to diagram everything I did in Greek. I think that diagramming is a key component to proper exegesis and application of the Greek text.

I think the advice was for you not to copy the sentence diagrams from somewhere, but to do them by yourself, as this requires you to study the grammar of the Greek text on a very deep level. Just use the Logos sentence diagram tool and have a go at it!

(I personally are not that deep into Greek, but I understand that the "how to" is covered in some Greek grammar books but especially in this book by Kantenwein: https://ref.ly/logosres/pdf:diaganalysis?art=a1 )

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2021 6:44 AM

What is the difference between the SBLGNT and NA28 and UBS5? Which one should I use?

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2021 6:47 AM

Yes, this how-to idea is covered in many of my Greek textbooks, but that is not what I want. I want to syntactically and linguistically analyze this and then diagram the whole Gospel of John. I am doing a deep exegesis and study of John's Gospel in the next 3 months. I want to take this a step further and ponder why. Does that make sense? 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2021 1:41 PM

May I suggest that the tree diagrams used in linguistics and the visualization diagrams in Loogos are a better model for academic work and will serve your purposes better that the pedagogic diagrams used by Leedy?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2021 2:03 PM

MJ. Smith:

May I suggest that the tree diagrams used in linguistics and the visualization diagrams in Loogos are a better model for academic work and will serve your purposes better that the pedagogic diagrams used by Leedy?

Yes. How do I access these?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2021 2:37 PM

1. Open your library

2. Filter by "Clause Visualization" will show all of them in your library

3. Open Lukaszewski, Albert L., Mark Dubis, and Ted Blakley. The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament, SBL Edition: Sentence Analysis. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2011. - my guess as to the one most helpful to you.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Steve Maling | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2021 5:05 PM

Christian, would the "Cascadia Syntax Graphs", available in Logos, be of help?

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Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 4 2021 5:44 AM

Christian Alexander:
Dr. Dan Wallace was my best friend in seminary and he always told me to diagram everything I did in Greek.

I agree with Dan 100%, while the Visual Clause works are good (and they were especially helpful when Logos did not have any sentence diagramming tools available), nothing beats getting into the text and diagramming it for yourself. Although, diagramming does require an understanding of your basic parts of speech; Subject, verb, direct, indirect objects, Prepositional Phrases, Randy's work is very helpful for someone who needs to brush up on this parts of speech (like we all do from time to time) and will help familiarize yourself, again, with those parts of speech. Now, the Cascadia, though I have never used that one much, does do a far job of labeling those parts of speech and may be used in conjunction with Randy's work to help you walk through the text. I would start with smaller verses to diagram to get yourself adjusted. Start with 1 John and work through some verses in that; using Randy's work and Cascadia and see how that works for you. Find the verb and then that will direct you to the subject by asking the "who" or "what" question. 

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 4 2021 6:37 AM

Steve Maling:

Christian, would the "Cascadia Syntax Graphs", available in Logos, be of help?

What are those? 

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Nord Zootman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 4 2021 6:39 AM

Pastor Michael Huffman:
I really appreciate Randy's efforts here and they are a very valuable resource to have. They will help you see the flow of the text more clearly and therefore help you in your exposition of the text. However, with that being said, keep in mind that they are not morphologically tagged. Basically, I appreciate what Randy did, it is excellent, I am just not to thrilled with what Logos did with it. Basically, what you have in the resource are bitmap pictures of the diagrams that are absolutely NOT interactive whatsoever.

I appreciate Randy's work and refer to it occasionally, but I do so in Bibleworks where it is interactive. I would also be frustrated if it were just pictures as it is in Logos. It would be a much more valuable tool if it were tagged.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 4 2021 6:40 AM

Christian Alexander:

Steve Maling:

Christian, would the "Cascadia Syntax Graphs", available in Logos, be of help?

What are those? 

looks like this:

 Image

https://ref.ly/logosres/csgnt?ref=BibleNA27.Jn1.1 

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 4 2021 6:53 AM

Christian Alexander:
What are those? 

NOTE: Mick posted quicker than I did

MJ and Steve Mailing have both suggested Visualizations

To find your options, open an Exegetical Guide on the passage you are studying and click on the triangle next to visualizations

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 4 2021 6:55 AM

Thanks everyone

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