Security - Does Logos watch what we do?

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This post has 12 Replies | 2 Followers

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xnman | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Nov 14 2021 5:47 AM

This has probably been asked before... but with Logos being online like it is... does Faithlife/Logos watch/keep tabs/peak at what we do?

How many times we open Logos?  What we do in Logos? What books we don't use in Logos? etc and etc.

In this day and age....  I am getting more and more concerned about "big brother" whether they be Christian brothers or otherwise......  

Edit: I am hoping someone that works with Faithlife/Logos can put my mind at ease.... Geeked

Thanks

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 14 2021 6:18 AM

Well, let's hope they're watching:

- Software improvements. Unused functions suggesting improvements

- Resource use, interface to tools, other resources that may be useful

- Mix of customer need ... pastor use, academic, enjoy ... what to expand.

They also have access personally ... that's observable when folks can't use tools, when they don't own them.

It's never been clear where the personal-line is .... what a well-regarded pastor is reading? Are Catholics really catholic? Where is that line?

And of course, telling the world about your credit card expire-dates ... always important to them.

Posts 831
Kevin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 14 2021 11:00 AM

They definitely do track, and are quite open about it. There is an option in the settings under the Internet section to modify what telemetry is shared with Logos, with the options being

  • All
  • Anonymous
  • None

 

It is not specific about what is gathered here but I certainly expect they know what parts of Logos I use, and what resources I use. Perhaps there is more detail in the advised Privacy Policy.

From my testing, even if you set it to "None", your location in resources/notes etc are still updated, so data is still transferred. You can test this by forcing a sync after changing location in a resource and then opening that resource in https://app.logos.com so presumably this setting is just applicable marketing/usage purposes, and not for the functional required data, so 'Feedback' as they describe.

If you want no data transfer at all you can set 'Use Internet' to No.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 14 2021 11:44 AM

xnman:
I am getting more and more concerned about "big brother"

big brother is nothing compared to the Father - and the consequences are a good deal more long lasting.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 1004
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 14 2021 1:01 PM

Background for my question.......

After this year, and the way the government in the USA has used "other" parts of the government, i.e. OSHA, to do their mandates for them, then I would wonder if it would be possible for the government to come after Logos as to get a list of customers and what those customers are doing.

I know, I know, it's like I am being paranoic or something... but we all know it's been a bad year for churches, for Christians in this country when our government has sent swat teams to houses of worship because of some mandate the government came up with.

it just ain't right! But I think in doing due diligence, the question I asked is a valid one.

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 14 2021 1:44 PM

xnman:
but we all know it's been a bad year for churches

No, we don't know that. It has NOT been a bad year for the churches of myself, my family, or my close friends. Leave politics at the door and follow the guidelines please. Ignoring my distaste for the form of your question, Logos has a program setting for allowing/disallowing them to see what the users as a whole do. Seeing what is most used (and what crashes) allows them to allocate their resources to meet users needs.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 15 2021 12:27 AM

As a wiser person than I said...

"It has NOT been a bad year for the churches of myself, my family, or my close friends. Leave politics at the door and follow the guidelines please."

and I rejoin...

Hear, hear

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 2680
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 15 2021 8:31 AM

xnman:
does Faithlife/Logos watch/keep tabs/peak at what we do?

While some disagree with the reason for the question, the question itself is valid.

I don't know that Faithlife "watches", but they do track usage data of various features, operating systems, etc. in order to prioritize development.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 15 2021 8:40 AM


xnman:
 Background for my question....... 

Your reasons are your own, but I'll agree with the other commenters who ask that we refrain from political commentary here. 

xnman:

This has probably been asked before... but with Logos being online like it is... does Faithlife/Logos watch/keep tabs/peak at what we do?

How many times we open Logos?  What we do in Logos? What books we don't use in Logos? etc and etc.

In this day and age....  I am getting more and more concerned about "big brother" whether they be Christian brothers or otherwise......  

Edit: I am hoping someone that works with Faithlife/Logos can put my mind at ease.... Geeked

Thanks

These are fair questions. Yes, Faithlife collects and observes aggregate user behavior, including the examples you give above. Application crash reports and other technical errors are also automatically collected, so we can proactively respond to issues before they are reported by users. These are all standard software development practices to most effectively improve the product. As others have noted above, you can change the program settings to anonymize or opt out of sending your usage data. 

In the spirit of transparency, here are other areas of privacy you may like to know about: 

  • Notes and other documents are automatically synced with your account, and are not encrypted. This has been discussed many times before on these forums. The short version is this: If you have highly confidential information that you absolutely would not want anyone else to see, don't store it in Logos.
  • Customer Support reps have the ability to impersonate users' accounts. This means they can log in as you, and see everything you can see. This is done only for troubleshooting purposes, and only ever with your permission.

For official statements on these matters, please see our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

Message me on Faithlife.com >>

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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 15 2021 5:07 PM

Verrrrrt Intttterrrrressstttting!

For sure!

And to add.... I think it's a very valid question to ask of any software that we use. And I have asked like questions of other software that I use.

Too many hidden agends in this world.

An honest man should have no problems being transparent, but a dishonest man will always try to hide.

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Posts 236
Steven Veach | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 15 2021 5:40 PM

xnman:

Verrrrrt Intttterrrrressstttting!

For sure!

And to add.... I think it's a very valid question to ask of any software that we use. And I have asked like questions of other software that I use.

Too many hidden agends in this world.

An honest man should have no problems being transparent, but a dishonest man will always try to hide.

I disagree. It is not just the dishonest man who should be concerned with transparency and what is being tracked online by organizations (any organization). 

My rule of thumb is simple: if you don't want anyone to know what you're thinking, keep it to yourself. If you don't want anyone to know what you're doing on your computer then use an air gapped computer. This is the ONLY way you will be 100% protected. Just because they say they will only use data a certain way in no way assures the individual that they will use it that way only. All organizations and governments are founded and run by fallen humans. This should be the first warning sign: Caution! Humans cannot be trusted.   

To add to what Logos tracks, I saw an off-handed comment awhile back about how Logos discovered titles in personal books were often of books they sold in their store and, thus, the personal books feature was eating into their profits. The only way they could know this is if their system collects a list of all the personal book titles we have imported into the software. Now, they have every right to track this because they are the authors of the software. What they do with that data is up to them as well. They chose not to let people upload their personal books to Logos servers, basically hobbling the feature. Now they could have chosen a stricter solution, i.e. any resource found on their serve could be prohibited to be imported as a personal book. E-Sword did something similar years ago to combat copyright infringement by redesigning their database.  

Where I spend 90% of my time I have no internet access at all (mostly) so it's a natural air gap. But as soon as I get back to civilization and plug back into the matrix, I'm sure everything I've done on my computer is collected and uploaded to the "powers that be." It's unavoidable unless you are going to go live in the woods and become a Luddite 2.0. In the past I've thought of keeping my laptop air-gapped and just using my phone for internet access, but what a pain that is in practice.  

As to the government and churches and recent hardships, life is relative. My life personally hasn't changed much at all since the mandates. But, I've been lucky. Plus, just because one individual's life has seen no negative turns because of decisions made by the government doesn't mean it has not become a living nightmare for other individuals. Their experiences are just as valid as everyone else's. It also doesn't mean they automatically are deceitful or criminals. It just means things are not black and white. 

But, since Logos requires a user ID and password to use their software, there is a greater likelihood that they are collecting more data on you than you actually think. But so is everyone else. Data is the new oil. If you don't like it consider land in Montana and ditch that laptop for a butter churn. If someone is worried that they might be uncovered as a Christian because they use Logos, that is the least of your worries. By the time they get to Logos servers, Christians will already be stacked and sorted. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 15 2021 5:54 PM

Steven Veach:
To add to what Logos tracks, I saw an off-handed comment awhile back about how Logos discovered titles in personal books were often of books they sold in their store and, thus, the personal books feature was eating into their profits. The only way they could know this is if their system collects a list of all the personal book titles we have imported into the software. Now, they have every right to track this because they are the authors of the software. What they do with that data is up to them as well. They chose not to let people upload their personal books to Logos servers, basically hobbling the feature. Now they could have chosen a stricter solution, i.e. any resource found on their serve could be prohibited to be imported as a personal book. E-Sword did something similar years ago to combat copyright infringement by redesigning their database.

I am not certain but I think this may be taken out of context. They did do a review of personal books when they decided to kill the promised personal book store - something I had factored into my retirement plans for out of copyright hymnals. What they found made them decided such a story would be ill-advised because of potential copyright problems that have plagued other resource-share companies.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 236
Steven Veach | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 15 2021 6:24 PM

MJ. Smith:

I am not certain but I think this may be taken out of context. They did do a review of personal books when they decided to kill the promised personal book store - something I had factored into my retirement plans for out of copyright hymnals. What they found made them decided such a story would be ill-advised because of potential copyright problems that have plagued other resource-share companies.

Whether it was taken out of context or not, it is clear the ability is there and they have used the ability to track personal book titles at least at some point in the past. This is just an example of the many things they track. It illustrates the depth at which they can track "things" and activities end users do.

The OP was concerned that the government would use Logos servers to track Christians down. I would bet all of your money that location is one of the myriad of items being tracks. Even if we turn on anonymous, I would wager that our IP addresses are still recorded (which is the same thing as a name in the modern world). Identity is voluntarily given along with address, phone, and credit card info (which really makes me question the concern since we Logos users voluntarily offer identifiable information from the jump).  

The reality is, it is simultaneously much worse than the OP is imagining but also doesn't really matter since those who would presumably do Logos users (aka Christians) harm have much more robust means of tracking individual than Logos servers. So really it doesn't matter what we do on Logos or anywhere online for that matter. Those who care about what people are doing already know what people are doing. That is simply the world we now live in.  

 

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