Do we own the product, or now we access to this product ?

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This post has 21 Replies | 4 Followers

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Michael Parry-Thomas | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 26 2021 1:22 PM

I think someone is trying to be clever with wording

In the sale "You have access to this product"

Used to say on the website you owned the product

Maybe my dyslexia is getting the better of me?

I thought access to product was when you have a subscription of some sort

mick

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Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 26 2021 1:34 PM

As I understand it, access just means that you have access to it - either through a purchase or a rental of some sort. I have seen no reason to suspect that purchased resources are turning into some form of rental. But yes, I can certainly see how people would get confused.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 27 2021 4:33 AM

I must admit that I think I bought some (few) products in the past even though I had access to them through a subscription, but didn't check that before buying. It was only when nothing new downloaded that I saw the resource was in the library and the license field just switched from 'temporary' to 'permanent'. 

Not sure if this really is something that happens very often - but it seems that at least I can now see immediately the sale items that are interesting to me and those that are not (which did have some hickups in the past), so I personally am glad for the change.    

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 27 2021 6:27 AM

NB.Mick:

I must admit that I think I bought some (few) products in the past even though I had access to them through a subscription, but didn't check that before buying. It was only when nothing new downloaded that I saw the resource was in the library and the license field just switched from 'temporary' to 'permanent'. 

Not sure if this really is something that happens very often - but it seems that at least I can now see immediately the sale items that are interesting to me and those that are not (which did have some hickups in the past), so I personally am glad for the change.    

I still think it's FL's weak link .....  Marketing  .... again. Yes, it now tells you, you have some sort of license ... like Dave, you now have to go check .... which? Unless your memory is really good ... but. in  your case, it wasn't that time.

And you guys are the experts. The rest of Logosia?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 27 2021 8:40 AM

I saw a comment elsewhere from Brandon at Faithlife saying:

"This is because a lot of people are purchasing the (group) license to share with faithlife groups.. Those group members don’t necessarily own them! So we just want to be sure we have proper language up there to avoid confusion.."

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 27 2021 10:00 AM

Graham Criddle:

I saw a comment elsewhere from Brandon at Faithlife saying:

"This is because a lot of people are purchasing the (group) license to share with faithlife groups.. Those group members don’t necessarily own them! So we just want to be sure we have proper language up there to avoid confusion.."

Well, I'm glad I'm not an access-Logosian (poor puppies). They have to always check, for fear of missing a good buy, or not. Great marketing.

Posts 3127
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 27 2021 11:36 AM

Michael Parry-Thomas:
Used to say on the website you owned the product

In my opinion, the "you own this product" was the incorrect language. According to the EULA, we've never owned any products...we own a license (agreement) to use a product, either permanently or via rental, depending on how we acquired it.

And the 'permanent' license comes with caveats...it isn't really permanent, but dependent on the viability of FL itself.

So (again, IMO), the "you have access to this product" is more correct and descriptive of that on which we actually spend our money.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 28 2021 2:31 PM

Doc B:
So (again, IMO), the "you have access to this product" is more correct and descriptive of that on which we actually spend our money.

Then we have to deduce whether we have temporary or permanent access by the presence/absence of a Price!? I would much prefer the wording to include "temporary access" where that is the case, otherwise show "permanent access".

Dave
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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 28 2021 3:40 PM

Dave Hooton:

Then we have to deduce whether we have temporary or permanent access by the presence/absence of a Price!? I would much prefer the wording to include "temporary access" where that is the case, otherwise show "permanent access".

Big Amen to that!!!

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Posts 309
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2021 2:27 AM

Dave Hooton:
Then we have to deduce whether we have temporary or permanent access by the presence/absence of a Price!? I would much prefer the wording to include "temporary access" where that is the case, otherwise show "permanent access".

This is the way to go!!!

Posts 1147
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2021 6:32 AM

Thinking about this a bit further.....

As to my library in Logos ---- I assumed we "bought the product" NOT bought "access to the product"  I will show forth WordSearch as proof of that thought.  Since we "owned" the product in WordSearch... then we now "own" the product in Logos and any books we since bought.

The program of Logos itself may be another argument all together. But even so.... I thought we "bought" the right to use indefinitely to go along and be able to use the "books" we bought... 

So.... given that thinking....  I would think also... that the books in "Home"  would show up as being "Owned" or "You own this product" as it once did.... otherwise it would show a price to be able to purchase to own the product.  

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2021 7:04 AM

xnman:

So.... given that thinking....  I would think also... that the books in "Home"  would show up as being "Owned" or "You own this product" as it once did.... otherwise it would show a price to be able to purchase to own the product.  

Well, technically, you have a changable agreement (license) with the present owners of Faithlife. It's got sufficient wiggle-room, that you're just in the good graces of Bob & Co (which is good). He points out, should disaster strike, someone else will likely pick up FL. Then you'll be in their graces ... and needs for $$.

In contrast, a hard-copy is physically yours, with publisher claims only relative to local laws. Why, you can even sell it unhindered.

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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2021 8:22 AM

So, like the man that jumped out of the 10th story window, as he passed by the 9th floor said, "So far so good!"   Hmm

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Posts 17
Richard Labelle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2021 2:26 PM

This is very confusing and upsetting to me really! What happens then if someone closes his/her account at Logos (Faithlife)? Does it means that he/she looses all the "purchased" that he/she made? 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2021 3:30 PM

Richard Labelle:

This is very confusing and upsetting to me really! What happens then if someone closes his/her account at Logos (Faithlife)? Does it means that he/she looses all the "purchased" that he/she made? 

No need to get upset. Absolutely nothing in your contract with Faithlife has changed. What did change is that Faithlife started offering group licenses where the licenses may move around  - one may have access but your church may own the licenses. Therefore, Faithlife thought is better to use the wording "access" to coverage (a) access through a group license (b) access through a subscription and (c) access through ownership. There is no legal way that Faithlife could change your ownership retroactively. Relax.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2021 7:05 AM

Richard Labelle:
What happens then if someone closes his/her account at Logos (Faithlife)? Does it means that he/she looses all the "purchased" that he/she made?

What do you mean by "close his/her account?" 

In most every case, when you "purchase" any digital item, you are actually acquiring a license, which gives you certain rights and privileges based on a licensing agreement. This is true for Kindle books. This is true for iTunes music and movies. 

The access to those resources is based upon the account you have, so yes, you would lose access. But again, what do you mean by "close?" Why would someone "close" their account? 

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2021 9:15 AM

Dave Hooton:
Then we have to deduce whether we have temporary or permanent access by the presence/absence of a Price!?

That's a bit of a straw-man, Dave. No, you are expected to know how you purchased the resource, not deduce it...did you get it by buying the license or did you get it via LN, etc. (We are even expected to remember if we obtained licenses in packages or individually.)

And yes, I like your wording suggestion better than what we have ('temp' vs 'perm').

And no, I'm not arguing this is a good way to do it, I'm simply saying this is how it's done.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2021 10:04 AM

JT (alabama24):

Richard Labelle:
What happens then if someone closes his/her account at Logos (Faithlife)? Does it means that he/she looses all the "purchased" that he/she made?

The access to those resources is based upon the account you have, so yes, you would lose access. But again, what do you mean by "close?" Why would someone "close" their account? 

Hmmm ... messy, messy. Take for example, my BW books (oops ... licenses). BW is long gone (though they offered a dieing backup plan),

But ... there's more!

I 'traded' my BW licenses in for heavily discounted Accordance licenses.  I had to agree to not trading or giving my BW licenses away, but I could still use both sets of licenses. Until I die, maybe.

Unless!

Accordance dies (gets taken over) and Logos reigns supreme! Then, I'll have Libby licenses, Logos licenses (different wording), BWs (2 wordings), Accordance licenses, but over-written by ... the winner licenses.

So, it's kind of like the resurrection, where the Christian sailor got eaten by the tuna, who gets served at the sushi counter, etc, etc

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2021 10:36 AM

DMB:
Hmmm ... messy, messy.

There are certainly challenges with digital resources! On the other hand, I have access to exponentially more resources than I did when I moved across country last... and my back just about killed me then! Big Smile

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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2021 12:10 PM

JT (alabama24):

There are certainly challenges with digital resources! On the other hand, I have access to exponentially more resources than I did when I moved across country last... and my back just about killed me then! Big Smile

Ditto for me..... I moved one time.... and learned "those books are heaaavy!" Not counting 6 file cabinets. And I had most of the books and the files all indexed in Excel so I could find stuff.....  Lots of work. I scanned most of my books and my files into pdf files and now with "My Favorites"...  I can access them in Logos... Keep em for research and studies. Put them on a thumb drive....

But, now, most of the time.... I just pick up my laptop or my phone and go....  much easier! And I can still take my thumb drive... Geeked

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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