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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 4 2021 11:09 AM

How can I do a homiletical outline of John 1:1-18 in Logos? I know that homiletics deals with preaching, so this would be an outline for how I would preach this passage and apply it to a congregation. 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 4 2021 11:21 AM

use Sermon Starter Guide to find  Outlines or/and Sermon Outlines.

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 4 2021 3:53 PM

Dave Hooton:

use Sermon Starter Guide to find  Outlines or/and Sermon Outlines.

How can this be done?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 4 2021 4:20 PM

Christian Alexander:
How can this be done?

I'm getting a bit puzzled as to how best to answer your questions. You clearly want to study, but in order to study you need to be able to do your own basic research. Should I be directing you to the Logos training e.g. How do I find Sermon Outlines? – Logos Help Center ? Do you need screenshots? How best do I help you learn to find or understand an answer (teach you to fish) rather than giving you an answer that solves the immediate problem but does not move you forward (give you a fish)?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 4 2021 5:56 PM

This is great

Teach me to fish

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 4 2021 6:21 PM

I am not Christian. I am just another student that is probably driving you all nuts at this point. I try to tag along behind Christian, to learn as much as I can without asking it myself, or  trying to fish, without yet being trained to fish.

#1. I don't know what I don't know. I am missing critical context needed to understand the thing I am trying to learn. I don't even know what questions to ask.

#2. Sometimes my current assignment is due NOW, and the professor did not factor in time to learn the software, just the time to use the software, or did not expect me to use the software at all.

#3. I don't have all the features and books that the tutorials show and long-time users have. My screen looks different and is not as useful.

#4. I am finding bugs and don't know when it is a bug or when I am not trained enough to use the software yet. Sometimes I don't know I am missing the features you all have.

#5. I am under a firehose of new information, and I cannot absorb and retain all the information being thrown at me. Even what I learn, I forget. I forget that I even forgot things and think they are new. Sure, we have access to all this "timesaving" stuff, but we have to learn to use it. And this is a huge undertaking.

#6. I struggle to prioritize what to focus on. I have learned that the best thing sometimes is to turn off the software, aim for a 40%, and just start writing a piece of trash of the minimum length allowed. Then spend the remaining time trying to clean it up, the "right" way. I tend not to do this until I am desperate. I think the most successful students are those that don't try as hard, and are so clueless that they don't know how bad their papers are. I know someone that keeps talking about the Dunning-Kruger effect. I have lost a link to a blog by a professor that said that professors really don't want to read student papers, so stop trying to write something impressive.

Good luck Christian! And thanks for letting me tag along behind you.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 4 2021 7:13 PM

Kathleen Marie:
I have lost a link to a blog by a professor that said that professors really don't want to read student papers, so stop trying to write something impressive.

I had the good fortune of spending my undergraduate years at a small college where our professors did actually read and critque our papers with the aim that some of us (not me) would be writing publishable papers by our senior year. It was a shock to enter graduate school to discover other students reused papers rather than writing one and the feedback was minimal.

I am certain that a number of us on the forums can help you pick out reading to provide you with the necessary background if we know (a) what you are studying (b) why you are studying it (c) what you think you already know. Feel free to ask as many questions as you need regarding the software and the resources as you need. Be prepared to put a bit of your own effort into learning tools and resources after they have been suggested. It is usually unwise to ask for "best" or "most accurate" as that usually brings out denominational rather than academic biases. You'd end up with the Christian equivalent of think Pure Land Buddhism is typical of Buddhism.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 4 2021 7:26 PM

MJ, I am never going to forget your patience and vast knowledge. God Bless you!

God allowed the pandemic to severely alter my educational plans, but I trust him, and one of the things that has been a privilege is the opportunity to engage with the scholars here.

I am always willing to work much harder than the people I pester with my questions. Always. It is a privilege, not a right, of students to ask the questions here that some of us ask.

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Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2021 12:10 AM

Christian Alexander:

How can I do a homiletical outline

Since the original question is related to the art of making a homiletical outline, I would use one of the sermon prep workflows you can download to your Logos. They give multiple kinds of “fishing techniques.”

My usual fishing technique (based on many workflows):

  1. Pray, meditate and read the passage multiple times.
  2. See what kind of questions come to your mind arising from the passage (what you don’t understand, what needs to be clarified etc.)
  3. Then find answers from commentaries to your questions (do word-studies, background studies etc.)
  4. Keep in mind the people to whom your are going to preach (what are their questions, backgrounds, contemporary situation etc.)
  5. Try to find the common ground between the passage you’re going to preach and between your congregation: How does this passage answer the questions and/or problems of your congregation?
  6. Turn everything upside down when starting to write the sermon: Instead of beginning with and from the text, rather begin with the everyday questions and/or problems of your congregation. (Don’t forget the newspaper.) Only after that offer the solution of the passage to their questions and/or problems.
  7. Max. three or four questions and/or problems of your congregation suffice in one sermon (but they must all be dealt with by the passage).
  8. After having written the body of your message add beginning and end; illustrations etc.

Logos 9 Anglican Diamond, Logos 9 Lutheran Diamond

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Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2021 12:13 AM

Christian Alexander:

...a homiletical outline of John 1:1-18... an outline for how I would preach this passage and apply it to a congregation. 

Example (John 1: 1-18)

  1. Ok, I’m going to skip this for now, since it’s not a real preaching situation.
  2. What I don’t understand (potentially): What/who is the Word (v. 1)? Why is Jesus called the Word? How was he part of the creation (v. 2-3)? What do the words “life” and “light” here signify (vs. 4-5, 7-9)? Why didn’t the world know him (v. 10)? “Believing” and “being born” (vs. 12-13)? “Becoming flesh” and “making a tent” among us (v. 14)? “Grace, truth and law” (vs. 14b, 16-17)? Why does v. 18 have a textual variant? Which one is the original?
  3. Ok, this I skip for now, since it’s not a real preaching situation.
  4. In my congregation I have “Christina the Christmas-freak” (very tired of all the holiday preparations), “Andrew the Agnostic” (doubts everything) and “Charles the charismatic” (very sure of his convictions and always climbing to the spiritual realm). According to my lectionary John 1: 1-18 is a designated text for Christmas Day Mass.
  5. What unifies Christina, Andrew and Charles? Some lack (for Christina it’s a lack of perfection, for Andrew it’s a lack of knowledge, for Charles it’s a lack of spirituality).
  6. The passage has something to offer to all of them.
  7. I make the following outline: “A message for those Stressed, those Skeptical and those Soaring.” I begin with mundane observations, easy to follow, and then proceed to the text.
  8. Beginning: I could start with Frank Sinatra: “Fly me to the moon...” Is this what Christmas is supposed to be? “Moon-jumping” (in Christina’s search for perfection, in Andrew’s search for knowledge, in Charles’ search for spirituality), of course anonymously in the sermon? For Christina this passage has the message of grace among her tired preparations (a message for those stressed). For Andrew this passage has a message of God’s revelation in his Son becoming a human being (a message for those skeptical). For Charles this passage has the message of not needing to climb up to heavenly realms, since God’s Son became human, he came down (a message for those soaring).
  9. End: Some good illustration as well.

Of course - it goes without saying - your congregation might lead you to a totally different kind of answers found in the same text / pericope. This is what I find so exciting about preaching. Never twice the same!

Logos 9 Anglican Diamond, Logos 9 Lutheran Diamond

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2021 4:52 PM

Olli, I am not the OP, but thank you so much!

I have taught Sunday School children, but I doubt I will every "preach". I am exploring making my academic research papers more sermon like when this is appropriate. I am not even sure why, but I have learned to try my gut and that is what I think I am supposed to do right now.

What you just took the time to write out was amazingly helpful. God bless you!

Forums are funny places. You never have any idea who might be reading and benefiting from public posts, and sometimes only years later when they pop up in a search.

Posts 232
Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2021 1:10 AM

Christian Alexander:

How can I do a homiletical outline of John 1:1-18 in Logos?

Existing workflows are useful. Here's a screenshot on how you can find them in the Desktop App:

1) First, click on the docs. 2) Then, click on the "Public", where you can browse workflows made and shared by other users. 3) Type in the search box the word "sermon", if it's homiletical workflows you're looking for. Instead, you could type the word "homiletical". See what comes up. You can download the workflows made by fellow Logos users. (Many of them are based on already existing Homiletics Books in Logos).

In my opinion using a workflow is a much better way (although a more arduous one) than using existing outlines. This way you can tailor your outline according to your congregation. Of course, if you're busy, there's nothing wrong with existing homiletical outlines.

In my opinion, the homiletical process should be a bilateral process where the two poles are the text being preached and the ordinary, everyday situation of your congregation. Using a workflow that takes into account the other pole, that is: your congregation, guarantees the bilaterality. Using existing outlines makes the sermon easily too unilateral.

Kathleen Marie:

Olli, I am not the OP, but thank you so much!... What you just took the time to write out was amazingly helpful. God bless you!

Thanks. Blessings to you, too!

Logos 9 Anglican Diamond, Logos 9 Lutheran Diamond

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2021 8:03 AM

Christian Alexander:
How can I do a homiletical outline

This will depend heavily upon your personality AND/OR your professor's expectation. At a minimum from my Homiletics I course you will want:

Introduction written word for word

Main Point Stated

  • Main Point Explained
  • Main Point Illustrated
  • Main Point Applied

Transition written word for word

Main Point Stated

  • Main Point Explained
  • Main Point Illustrated
  • Main Point Applied

Transition written word for word

Main Point Stated

  • Main Point Explained
  • Main Point Illustrated
  • Main Point Applied

Transition written word for word

Conclusion/Call for Response

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2021 8:30 AM

Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari:

In my opinion, the homiletical process should be a bilateral process where the two poles are the text being preached and the ordinary, everyday situation of your congregation. Using a workflow that takes into account the other pole, that is: your congregation, guarantees the bilaterality. Using existing outlines makes the sermon easily too unilateral.

Thank you for sharing your opinion and this advice. "Two poles" is a memorable and useful phrase to apply to writing and speaking! It creates a picture in my mind that will be harder to forget. One that I can paste on top of other outlines and ask myself if I need to tweak the one beneath.

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2021 8:41 AM

David,

Thank you for typing out this outline. This is pretty much what I have been doing, and having it right below Olli's outline is giving me a chance to think about a recently written paper. I might have been able to merge the two outlines into a better paper than what I wrote.

Lots to think about. Again, I am not the OP, but thanks!

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2021 8:49 AM

"Main point illustrated"

I have seen books titled "Illustrations" but I have not read any of them yet. In my previous experience, an "illustration" is a visual picture. Every time I see the word "illustration" used in a way that is not a visual picture, I am reminded that I have been grossly negligent in my studies of illustrations.

Posts 232
Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2021 9:38 AM

David Thomas:

Introduction written word for word

Main Point Stated

  • Main Point Explained
  • Main Point Illustrated
  • Main Point Applied

Transition written word for word

Main Point Stated

  • Main Point Explained
  • Main Point Illustrated
  • Main Point Applied

Transition written word for word

Main Point Stated

  • Main Point Explained
  • Main Point Illustrated
  • Main Point Applied

Transition written word for word

Conclusion/Call for Response

Very much true, if you use a deductive approach. If you use an inductive approach, then it comes up with something like this (using your layout):

Introduction written word for word

Main Problem

  • Main Problem Illustrated (ordinary life, observations etc.)
  • Main Problem Explained (reasons, causes for it)
  • Main Point Stated and applied (--> go to the Bible)

Transition written word for word

Main Problem

  • Main Problem Illustrated (ordinary life, observations etc.)
  • Main Problem Explained (reasons, causes for it)
  • Main Point Stated and applied (--> go to the Bible)

etc.

Conclusion/Call for Response"

This would make it much more interesting - not stating your point at the beginning, but rather at the end... They don't know what's coming... You invite your congregation to discover, to explore, on an expedition with you!

Logos 9 Anglican Diamond, Logos 9 Lutheran Diamond

Posts 232
Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2021 10:12 AM

Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari:

If you use an inductive approach...

FYI, this epiphany isn't a brainstorm of my own, and it didn't occure on my mind, but I'm thankful and in debt to Ralph L. Lewis and Gregg Lewis in their book: Inductive Preaching: Helping People Listen | Logos Bible Software, on which I wrote a review to the product page, also.

Logos 9 Anglican Diamond, Logos 9 Lutheran Diamond

Posts 709
Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2021 1:11 PM

Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari:

FYI, this epiphany isn't a brainstorm of my own, and it didn't occure on my mind, but I'm thankful and in debt to Ralph L. Lewis and Gregg Lewis in their book: Inductive Preaching: Helping People Listen | Logos Bible Software, on which I wrote a review to the product page, also.

I added the book to my wishlist and I am going to print some of this thread. I think I have been saved a lot of wasted time in research and trial and error. I knew I was on the wrong track and I knew I needed to look wider for other options. I think I am narrowing down on the one that I am supposed to follow, at least for the short-term. This all makes sense to me. Thanks!

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SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2021 3:08 PM

Congratulations to both Kathleen Marie and to Christian.

And a big THANK YOU to the many contributors to this thread.

As someone who has been ordained for over 40 years, I would add that this thread and its material would have been VERY HELPFUL as I was starting out--fortunately a friend did recommend Logos to me shortly after its' birth!

I, too, have just copied/saved these hints and tips.

All the best to those of you attempting these studies.

Thanks to the experienced folks who have offered these helpful suggestions.

Now...over to you, Christian, our "OP" 

Regards, SteveF

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