Michael Heiser's Bible Research Method vs Passage Exegesis Workflows

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Dec 12 2021 7:44 PM

What is the difference between Michael Heiser's Bible Research Method and the Passage Exegesis Workflow?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2021 8:52 PM

bump for attention 3

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2021 10:28 PM

Christian Alexander:
What is the difference between Michael Heiser's Bible Research Method and the Passage Exegesis Workflow?

I'm uncertain of what you want to know. Does this answer it?

Err 1
Err 2
Err 3

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 19 2021 6:10 AM

MJ, thanks for posting that!

Would I be correct to say that the Michael Heiser Method more closely follows the terminology and order of many introductory textbooks aimed at first and second year seminary students?

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Kenneth Neighoff | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 19 2021 10:02 AM

Mike Heiser is doing a live free event on how he uses his workflow.

Sound Biblical Theology in the Digital Age Tickets, Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 8:00 PM | Eventbrite

I have registered for this.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 19 2021 11:23 AM

Kathleen Marie:
Would I be correct to say that the Michael Heiser Method more closely follows the terminology and order of many introductory textbooks aimed at first and second year seminary students?

I cannot answer that because in broad terms there are at least two quite different approaches depending upon the hermeneutical stance of the seminary.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 19 2021 2:10 PM

Kenneth Neighoff:

Mike Heiser is doing a live free event on how he uses his workflow.

Sound Biblical Theology in the Digital Age Tickets, Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 8:00 PM | Eventbrite

Thanks!

Posts 710
Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 19 2021 2:12 PM

MJ. Smith:

Kathleen Marie:
Would I be correct to say that the Michael Heiser Method more closely follows the terminology and order of many introductory textbooks aimed at first and second year seminary students?

I cannot answer that because in broad terms there are at least two quite different approaches depending upon the hermeneutical stance of the seminary.

The other is that book you linked me to awhile back? I bought it, but forgot to read it. Moving that to the top of my reading list. Sorry to be repetitive with my questions, if that is what you are referring.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 19 2021 3:08 PM

Kathleen Marie:
Sorry to be repetitive with my questions, if that is what you are referring.

No, not you, but forum guidelines. It is a case where I would have trouble answering without evaluative language that showed my theological/hermeneutical/philosophical bias.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 19 2021 3:42 PM

MJ. Smith:

Kathleen Marie:
Sorry to be repetitive with my questions, if that is what you are referring.

No, not you, but forum guidelines. It is a case where I would have trouble answering without evaluative language that showed my theological/hermeneutical/philosophical bias.

Oops, I meant referring to the book, not referring to my question. I try not to waste people's time by asking the same question twice, because I did not fully follow up on previous advice. I did purchase this book:

The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church

https://www.logos.com/product/163596/the-interpretation-of-the-bible-in-the-church

I am sorry that I have not done more than skim the table of contents, but continue to ask questions that might be answered in it.

Are there specific books that best support using different workflows? Are we allowed to discuss which books support which workflows?

The Heiser workflow is easier for me to use in the short-term as it is more familiar. But I am using Ollie's Homily method as the foundation of my current paper, combined with a dream about the 3 bears, and I am very happy with this paper so far. God is showing me that now is the time to explore some less familiar things, as much as I would prefer to complete more assignments with familiar methods. I don't think His goals are always my goals right now. I try to stay open to adapt to each day, but also do not want to waste my days chasing greener grass that is not greener.

If there are two major approaches, I think it might be best that I have a shallow overview of how they are different, even if I only master and use one of them.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 19 2021 4:17 PM

Kathleen Marie:
Are there specific books that best support using different workflows? Are we allowed to discuss which books support which workflows?

Definitely. Often the workflow itself or the product page will direct you to the support for specific workflows. I can even say that I place some steps in the "looking busy but carefully learning nothing" category. But I can't say Method A relies on the ridulously flawed (non-Biblical, ahistoric) assumption B and consists solely of steps that concentrate on "looking busy but carefully learning nothing" with no safeguards against hubris as exhibited in its practitioners. I'm not saying Logos has any that bad; but I have encountered some that are that bad ... and they cast a long shadow of distaste.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 19 2021 7:20 PM

MJ. Smith:

 "looking busy but carefully learning nothing" with no safeguards against hubris as exhibited in its practitioners.

1. Running on the hamster wheel

2. Increasing in arrogance instead of humility

Academics both secular and Christian confuse me. When something beyond my control yanks me away from academics for a period whether it is just accredited academics or academics all together, I don't panic anymore, but instead try to use the time to clear my head and be a Mary more than a Martha.

At first it was most confusing when I am yanked off the hamster wheel. It set me apart from others. We all looked for something and someone to blame. We all agreed this was BAD. Now sometimes, I feel most confused when given permission to run on the wheel and maybe even a command to run on the wheel, until the wheel stops turning or I am yanked off again.

I grew up being warned not to pray from patience, but no one ever warned me against praying to be useful. Ouch. Life went from hard to barely survivable after that. And only survivable with His help, with big chunks of time hidden away in obscurity and off any wheels, until I pop up again and run like the wind for a time.

The conclusion for my current paper:

Ecclesiastes 12:13

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

WSC Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?

A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him for ever.

My wheel is getting back up to speed. I'm about to get some more pats on my head from my siblings. But what does Daddy want me to be doing with my days?



Posts 745
Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 23 2021 5:26 PM

Kathleen Marie:

MJ, thanks for posting that!

Would I be correct to say that the Michael Heiser Method more closely follows the terminology and order of many introductory textbooks aimed at first and second year seminary students?

MJ, that was good but I am wanting to know when I should do Heiser's method before or after? 

Kathleen, 

Thank you for your kind words. I want to find out how the method of Heiser relates to exegetical works.

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Roy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 23 2021 6:31 PM

MJ. Smith:
with no safeguards against hubris

Dog Gone MJ... You keep throwing all of those fancy words out there Wink

I just now finished watching an episode (Season 2-Episode 2) from "The Chosen" (I really like this series) and one of the characters (Nathanael I think) was saying that his friend (Himself actually) and died from Hubris.

Then I got on line and read your response and there's that word again, Hubris.

Ok, I really don't know what it means so I just HAD to look it up. Good word. I have to say that a lot of the time something in your posts really stretches my understanding and or knowledge base and helps me to grow. Thank you for that!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 23 2021 7:44 PM

Roy:
You keep throwing all of those fancy words out there Wink

You're welcome. "Hubris" separates the Catholics from the Protestants - hubris is one of the seven deadly sins which Catholic children learn to list at an early age:

Wikipedia: Seven deadly sins:

Origin of the currently recognized seven deadly sins

The modern concept of the seven deadly sins is linked to the works of the fourth-century monk Evagrius Ponticus, who listed eight evil thoughts in Greek as follows:

  1. Γαστριμαργία (gastrimargiagluttony
  2. Πορνεία (porneiaprostitutionfornication
  3. Φιλαργυρία (philargyriaavarice (greed)
  4. Λύπη (lypēsadness, rendered in the Philokalia as envy, sadness at another's good fortune
  5. Ὀργή (orgēwrath
  6. Ἀκηδία (akēdiaacedia, rendered in the Philokalia as dejection
  7. Κενοδοξία (kenodoxiaboasting
  8. Ὑπερηφανία (hyperēphaniapride, sometimes rendered as self-overestimationarrogancegrandiosity

They were translated into the Latin of Western Christianity largely in the writings of John Cassian), thus becoming part of the Western tradition's spiritual pietas (Catholic devotions), as follows:

  1. Gula (gluttony)
  2. Luxuria/Fornicatio (lustfornication)
  3. Avaritia (avarice/greed)
  4. Tristitia (sorrow/despair/despondency)
  5. Ira (wrath)
  6. Acedia (sloth)
  7. Vanagloria (vainglory)
  8. Superbia (pride, hubris)

I suspect current little ones may learn a bit more modern terminology. I try not to use denominational terminology but now and then one slips through.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 23 2021 9:35 PM

Did the Protestant reformers disagree with the lists like "7 Deadly Sins"? Or maybe they just faded away with such tight focus on their own canon and catechisms?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 23 2021 11:26 PM

Anglican and Lutherans who claim to follow the middle way tended to keep the concepts but update the language. They also basically kept the traditional canon - rearranged and demoted but still in the general framework for canonical. The Reformed was the force behind the shorter canon ... and a single level concept of canon. Those with a "once saved always saved" or "total depravity of man" (sterotypical not nuanced use by myself) theological thread had little need for a hierarchy of sin. Or, at least, I've not run into them in this tradition.

Broad concept of canon which can be used across all Christian denominations regardless of their particular definitions on canon:

  1. Proto-canonical: texts that may be used for lessons in worship settings and are appropriate as a basis for doctrine.
  2. Deutero-canonical: texts that may be used for lessons in worship settings but are not appropriate as a basis for doctrine.
  3. Trito-canonical texts: texts that are not used for lessons in worship settings (although they may be used as antiphons, etc.) nor as a basis for doctrine but are beneficial for personal reading. 

Note that no church or theology would use these precise definitions although they are derived from Jewish sources; they are categories that are used in the study of religion where one is trying to use identical terminology across theological boundaries with different terminology.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 24 2021 4:47 AM

What is the basic Protestant canon in your opinion and how does it differ from that of deeper denominations such as Southern Baptists, Independents, Anglicans, etc? Why is the canon so deprived of ideological sorts in this fashion? I am not a KJV only but I believe we should get to the original text such as the Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. 

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 24 2021 6:56 AM

Christian Alexander:
What is the basic Protestant canon

I think that a 'Facebook' search for 'Canon of the Bible' will save members a lot of typing.

However I have not come up with anything that explains the term 'deeper' when applied to Southern Baptists or Independents. I am even more intrigued when Anglicans are placed in the same box.

Please will you amplify the term 'deeper'?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 24 2021 7:05 AM

Mike Binks:

Please will you amplify the term 'deeper'?

All religions have a source of doctrine, usually an ancient writing that they believe to be the inspired Word of God. For Christians, that means the Bible, including the Old and New Testaments. Many denominations, however, also look to other writings (from historical church fathers, theologians, creeds, and so on) as faithful interpretations and confessions of Scripture. Denominations are an expression of the massively trans-cultural, ethnic, geographical and ideological influence of Christianity. I believe there is a push to enforce the rule that one ought to state "which Bible" one is interested in learning about. The Baptist denominations are generally considered to lie within Protestantism, though some argue that the practice of “believers baptism” i.e Baptism on confession of faith by the candidate preceeds the Reformation and therefore Baptist churches should not be grouped in this manner. Let me know if this is a good clarification.

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