OP-ed on the NRSVue

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 24 2021 8:09 PM

MJ. Smith:

The mainline Protestant churches (also called mainstream Protestant[1] and sometimes oldline Protestant)[2][3][4] are a group of Protestant denominations in the United States that contrast in history and practice with evangelicalfundamentalist, and charismatic Protestant denominations. . .

We cross posted as you added this. Absolutely NOT what I was thinking!

What are the numbers of mainline vs non-mainline?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 24 2021 8:12 PM

Kathleen Marie:
I am curious what the authors and people were thinking that I must have gotten my thinking from

I am too as I've not heard any other definition ... and I've had 3/4's of a century to do so.

World wide rough counts:

1. Catholic/Eastern and Oriental Orthodox = 2,883 million

2. Mainline (Historical) Protestantism = 300-400 million

3. Modern protestantism - evangelical,fundamentalist, charismatic = 400-500 million

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 24 2021 8:13 PM

Kathleen Marie:

We cross posted as you added this. Absolutely NOT what I was thinking!

What are the numbers of mainline vs non-mainline?

Never mind, I see the answer is right there! Sorry!

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 24 2021 8:25 PM

MJ. Smith:

Kathleen Marie:
I am curious what the authors and people were thinking that I must have gotten my thinking from

I am too as I've not heard any other definition ... and I've had 3/4's of a century to do so.

History is written by the winners, right? I think I have confused mainstream with size and volume. This might be entirely on me. I have a friend that though the world was flat until Pangaea broke apart and made the world round. This was not part of the flat earth thing! It was just her compiling bits of disconnected learning that had little context and depth, and making a pretty logical conclusion based on the knowledge she had.

My access to knowledge has been purposely restricted at times. I taught myself to read at 4 years old, risking beatings each time I would ask people single words that I would memorize and then compare to other words so I could learn phonics backwards from the memorized words. I was so desperate to learn more than what I was being taught directly. I have tried so hard to learn, but I still have huge gaps. I guess this is one of them. I am way off. I am almost "Pangaea was flat" wrong.

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Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 24 2021 10:22 PM

Ken McGuire:
NRSV has probably been the standard translation used in secular educational institutions in the USA. In addition, it has been the standard translation for mainline protestants.

This. It's a fairly solid translation good for such work as long as you're aware of its quirks (mostly footnoted, and all translations have quirks). For study I've often used it alongside the ESV; the difference between the two is very often a matter of taste. The NRSV also probably has the widest canon of the major translations.

Ken McGuire:
Part of this was just how old the RSV OT was - it hadn't been revised since the 1950's, while the RSV NT had been revised in 1970...

The RSV also falls into the uncanny valley of mid-century translations that use "Thou" for God but "you" for human beings. I find that so distracting as to be almost unreadable.

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Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 25 2021 5:39 AM

DMB:
Kiyah, I hope I wasn't unusually confusing. I was agreeing with you ... such a major translation and release demands scholarly reviews. I know this sounds awful, but after the NIV experience, and I guess now, the NRSV, there seems to be Simon Magus working at the helm of the translation business.

I understood what you meant. I was just answering your question. No worries.

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 12:51 PM

One of the callings of ministry is to explain the ancient world context not polish it over. This kind of translation seeks to pretend it doesn't exist in the text but it does. Something about that in the proclamation of truth only makes it harder to proclaim.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 2:10 PM

mab:

One of the callings of ministry is to explain the ancient world context not polish it over. This kind of translation seeks to pretend it doesn't exist in the text but it does. Something about that in the proclamation of truth only makes it harder to proclaim.

Sorry, mab, I don't understand what you are saying - an unusally problem with you. I see the translation as trying to represent the ancient world more closely by undermining our modern expectations e.g. since the modern world thinks in terms of sin and wealth, this tries to think in the less modern Western terms of purity and honor. But, then, my primary reason for preferring the NRSV in Logos/Verbum is to get an Orthodox canon. In my undergraduate days, the NEB was the text of choice -- it led to heavy booksacks.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 2:51 PM

MJ. Smith:

I see the translation as trying to represent the ancient world more closely by undermining our modern expectations e.g. since the modern world thinks in terms of sin and wealth, this tries to think in the less modern Western terms of purity and honor. 

One bright Sunday morning, our pastor was explaining why church leaders need to be guys ... pointing to Jesus' 12 ... all guys! I asked him if he was jewish? Not arguing gender, but rather, which ancient world do we select, this week.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 3:22 PM

Reminds me of the "argument" that I had with our pastor on whether the creed should be "and became man" or "and became human" - I simply pointed out than human came from  a root meaning earth, earthling (think adamah) while man came from a root meaning "think" which reminded me of some Hindu gods GeekedWink Selective evidence and selective grounds for argument can be ever so much fun.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 3:35 PM

I look forward to the conversations that will take place as this version comes to market. I think some of the conversations will be a bit different than those for other translations.

I am interested to listen to the goals of this translation.

When we judge one translation by the goals of another translation, it will appear deficient to a translation written to accomplish that set of goals.

I have been surprised at how few Bibles are available in giant print with the catholic canon. I wonder how far away we are from this version being available to giant print. Or if that is even planned.

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 3:52 PM

MJ Posted this at another thread.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/204699.aspx?PageIndex=2

MJ. Smith:

Allow me to brag - from my niece's Linkedin page: ...

... Yes, she has CP but she is not CP she is a vibrant, successful woman close to reaching middle-age who happens to need assistance.


  • Matthew 4:24

    NRSV: So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought to him all the sick, those who were afflicted with various diseases and pains, demoniacs, epileptics, and paralytics, and he cured them.

    NRSVue: So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought to him all the sick, those who were afflicted with various diseases and pains, people possessed by demons or having epilepsy or afflicted with paralysis, and he cured them.

  • The scholars explain: “When context permits, NRSVue avoids translations that identify people in terms of a disability.”
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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 4:16 PM

DMB:

Maybe a recommended. I did pick up the recently released book After Jesus, Before Christianity, from the review.  It promises to be another logic-grinding opus, but should read.

https://www.amazon.com/After-Jesus-Before-Christianity-Exploration/dp/0063062151 

Well, just for the Logosian record, Amazon kindly refunded my investment, after I got 13% in.  A reviewer did warn, they don't footnote their sources. It would have been interesting ... but not.

Ok, back to NRSVue (reminds me of TV-Vue).  I still think the translation will be great in Text Compare .... perks my curiousness up.

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 4:33 PM

So what is the background for translation for this new updated edition? I know that the New Revised Standard Version answers the need for a Bible in contemporary language that accurately reflects the most ancient biblical texts available but we are to look at both ancient and modern contexts in translation. Is this true?

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 4:37 PM

Basically, a KJV-only teacher stated his conservative concerns with the RSV. He grounded his objections even in the fact that upon his coming to Christ, he studied heavily and used heavily the RSV, until common KJV-only propaganda sucked him in. It was a terrible time in this class. Perhaps I first laid eyes on an NRSV as a junior high school student after having the other teacher the last semester. Like many students, it was required that I have an NRSV Oxford Annotated Bible. Does anyone believe the NRSV comes from the KJV?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 5:08 PM

You mean like this? NRSV New Revised Standard Version - Liturgy or like this?

 NRSV

Resources I've relied on over the years:

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 5:19 PM

Yes both of the above.

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 27 2021 9:46 PM

MJ. Smith:

You mean like this? NRSV New Revised Standard Version - Liturgy or like this?

Both were helpful to me, too. Thanks!

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Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 28 2021 3:21 AM

MJ. Smith:

You mean like this? NRSV New Revised Standard Version - Liturgy or like this?

Having been in school at the time the NRSV and NA27 came out, I would like to pick a minor nit. The NRSV was published before NA27 came out, so it could not have been based upon the final version of NA27.

That said, Bruce Metzger was involved with NRSV, and I cannot believe that he would not have heard from Kurt and Barbara Aland about their plans for NA27, and the same basic Greek text is shared between NA26, NA27, UBS3 and UBS4, but the actual Greek text used was UBS3 with information for UBS4 also...

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 28 2021 9:16 AM

Ken McGuire:

Having been in school at the time the NRSV and NA27 came out,

Thanks for sharing this background and context!

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