Historical Commentary Set

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jan 6 2022 11:35 AM

Hello everyone. I am looking for a good historical background commentary set. I want something that deals with the early church from 1 AD to 700 AD. Any suggestions? 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2022 1:24 PM

I'm not sure I understand the question - do you mean reception history commentary? If so, the best is not available in Faithlife. If you mean commentary written in that period then the various early church fathers collections or the commentaries with brief excerpts (which reflect a biased view rather than the full breadth of materials) are available. 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2022 2:31 PM

MJ's excerpts one:

https://www.logos.com/product/31152/ancient-christian-commentary-on-scripture-complete-set-updated-edition-accs 

A favorite of the forum's Mississippi pastor. He always likes it. Me too ... connect to your Bible. Many lesser known writers.

Posts 8949
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2022 2:58 PM

DMB:

MJ's excerpts one:

https://www.logos.com/product/31152/ancient-christian-commentary-on-scripture-complete-set-updated-edition-accs 

A favorite of the forum's Mississippi pastor. He always likes it. Me too ... connect to your Bible. Many lesser known writers.

The cheaper condensed version is the Ancient Faith Study Bible: https://www.logos.com/product/188830/csb-ancient-faith-study-bible-notes 

And it’s on sale now.

DAL

Posts 710
Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 11:20 AM

DAL:

The cheaper condensed version is the Ancient Faith Study Bible: https://www.logos.com/product/188830/csb-ancient-faith-study-bible-notes 

And it’s on sale now.

DAL

The youtube videos for this Bible are interesting to watch.

Posts 5927
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 4:02 PM

Why end specifically at AD 700?

Please use descriptive thread titles to attract helpful posts & save others time. Thanks!

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Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 4:31 PM

I am not sure what you are looking for. But some ideas:

EKK - A German series from both Protestants and Catholic authors, where they deliberately have sections on reception history of the passage. Some of these volumes have been translated into English and are in available in Logos in the Hermeneia series, and Schnackenburg of Ephesians. But while there is interesting reception history included here, that is not the focus of the commentary.

In addition there are two series that deliberately try to bring the father's exegesis to the current church, namely The Church's Bible and Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture. In my opinion The Church's Bible is better since it does longer excerpts of patristic exegesis.That said, in both of these sets they are almost certainly better at showing what the Editor of the volumes thinks we need to hear than showing the actual voices of the Fathers.

For better or worse, IMHO, if you want to hear the Fathers in their own voices, you have to spend a good amount of time interacting with them. In Logos there are some very good sets. Popular Patristics, Fathers of the Church, Ancient Christian Writers and Classics of Western Spirituality all have a fine reputation for consistently good translations with useful notes. In addition, IVP has come out with their Ancient Christian Texts series, and while the titles included look interesting, I have not used these enough to give an informed opinion.

When you look at those sets, you will probably have more than a bit of sticker shock. I very much recommend not buying a full set of anything yet. If you want a good introduction, Boniface Ramsey's Beginning to Read the Church Fathers is quite good. Or you can just jump in and read a work that looks interesting to you. There are dangers of this since you don't exactly have the context yet, but a good annotated edition can help with this.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

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Posts 710
Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 6:25 PM

Wow!

Thank you everyone! I am not the OP, but really benefited by reading this thread!

Posts 710
Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 7:07 PM

This video discusses reading the Church Fathers in both English and Greek and points us back to logos resources.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU2ar2nXFLY

Posts 2526
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 4:34 AM

Yes, thanks for the ideas in this thread. They are good.

Also, I had previously tripped over but missed the value of the CSB Ancient Faith Study Bible

Posts 1182
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 5:45 AM

SineNomine:

Why end specifically at AD 700?

Can't speak to the OP, but that's the usual date for the overwhelming of the eastern church, and the core of the western (Africa/Spain). Burning of the libraries.

Posts 1182
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 5:53 AM

Ken McGuire:
That said, in both of these sets they are almost certainly better at showing what the Editor of the volumes thinks we need to hear than showing the actual voices of the Father

Not arguing/disagreeing per se. But the big problem with 'the history of the church' is that for all practical purposes, it's whatever survived, either by intent/editors, or by escaping fires (intensional or otherwise).  This is especially true in the 2nd-3rd centuries among the apostolic and early church fathers.

Posts 1917
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 7:14 AM

DMB:

Ken McGuire:
That said, in both of these sets they are almost certainly better at showing what the Editor of the volumes thinks we need to hear than showing the actual voices of the Father

Not arguing/disagreeing per se. But the big problem with 'the history of the church' is that for all practical purposes, it's whatever survived, either by intent/editors, or by escaping fires (intensional or otherwise).  This is especially true in the 2nd-3rd centuries among the apostolic and early church fathers.

I would not disagree. Bauer's Orthodoxy and Heresy does have some good points, even if it goes too far IMHO. But the problem remains. What has survived are writings that were useful enough to be copied by later centuries or that was lucky enough to survive in an Egyptian trash heap. There are lots of documents from that time that scholars wish had survived.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 745
Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 7:24 AM

SineNomine:

Why end specifically at AD 700?

The first seven centuries of Christianity are very important when establishing an exegesis of what the church means and the effects of its early development had on the ability to further establish and define itself. The church as a whole and individuals within during the first five centuries suffered physical, emotional and spiritual attacks. I want to see exegesis from well-known church fathers such as Augustine, Vulnerable Bede, Chrysostom, Jerome, and Gregory the Great as well as lesser-known figures.

Posts 745
Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 7:25 AM

I went out and got The Church's Bible as well as the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture.

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 8:27 AM

Christian Alexander:

I went out and got The Church's Bible as well as the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture.

That is wonderful that you now have access to these resources! Congratulations!

I bought the study Bible. My poor charge card! And I placed a hold to borrow the Boniface Ramsey book through Interlibrary loan, whatever edition that they can get for me. Used older editions of this book are less than $4.00, and I will probably grab one of those at some point. I think with these two sources, my Logos Britannica Great Books, and Verbum Church Fathers linked to the Catholic Index, I have a good start.

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Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 8:31 AM

GaoLu:

Yes, thanks for the ideas in this thread. They are good.

Also, I had previously tripped over but missed the value of the CSB Ancient Faith Study Bible

Me, too.

I was feeling a bit frustrated the past couple months over not being able to access the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, but I think the study Bible will be enough for now, and maybe even better for now.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 3:02 PM

Ken McGuire:
What has survived are writings that were useful enough to be copied by later centuries or that was lucky enough to survive in an Egyptian trash heap.

Don't forget the Syriac church fathers ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1917
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 6:11 PM

MJ. Smith:
Don't forget the Syriac church fathers ...

I will fully admit that I don't know enough of the Syriac fathers. What little I know is that the Syriac church had living non-chalcedonian theology, and so are useful for seeing what they actually meant by their Christological language, as well as being important witnesses to Irenaeus. So yes, they are important. But have there been textual finds in Syriac like the Greek Papari?

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

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