Searching Within Search Results?

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Morgan | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jan 7 2022 12:36 PM

I'm trying to go through all of my Theological Dictionaries (such as the IVP series or Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary) and find any discussions on Paul's view of the law as discussed in 1 Timothy 1:8-11.

I can search Heading Text; Large Text; Title for law and get a comprehensive list of possibly relevant articles.

Can I search within these given results references to 1 Timothy 1:8-11?

I've already come across this thread which could give me the right results but there are so many various titles to the articles that there is no easy way to gather all the relevant Headwords.

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Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 12:56 PM

You want to find articles which have both "Law" in the heading, large text, or title and also have that reference. You can accomplish that by combining those two in the search string (make sure to reset the field selection you currently have back to default, since we don't want to only find references there).

[field heading,largetext,title]Law AND <1 Timothy 1:8-11>

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 1:04 PM

Hi Morgan. You need to use the search terms limiting the search to headings etc. Here is an example:

"([lang en] [field heading] Law)"  AND <1 Timothy 1:8-11>

You can add large text etc. if you wanted to expand it.

Here is the Wiki article on field searches:

https://wiki.logos.com/Search_Fields_List

Using the options in the search and adding 1Tim 1:8-11 would require the reference to be in the heading or large text. It would be nice if these were more easily built by Logos.

Hope this helps.

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Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 2:12 PM

Andrew Batishko:

You want to find articles which have both "Law" in the heading, large text, or title and also have that reference. You can accomplish that by combining those two in the search string (make sure to reset the field selection you currently have back to default, since we don't want to only find references there).

[field heading,largetext,title]Law AND <1 Timothy 1:8-11>

The above search worked for me for my dictionaries only after putting parentheses around everything before the AND operator. Without the parentheses I got zero results. I only got results for commentaries when I searched all resources.

([field heading,largetext,title]Law) AND <1 Timothy 1:8-11>

Adding the parentheses to the search brought back results from 4 of my dictionaries.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 2:24 PM

Kiyah:
The above search worked for me for my dictionaries only after putting parentheses around everything before the AND operator. Without the parentheses I got zero results.

Without the parentheses, the search is looking for places where the heading / large text / title contains both the word Law and the reference.

I would expect that adding in the parentheses would return results with the word Law specified irrespective of whether the reference was included as well. 

Does that match what you are seeing?

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Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 2:27 PM

Thanks for the correction. I was temporarily without access to the application and was working from memory, and didn't remember how fields are applied.

Andrew Batishko | Faithlife software developer

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Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 2:38 PM

Graham Criddle:

Without the parentheses, the search is looking for places where the heading / large text / title contains both the word Law and the reference.

I would expect that adding in the parentheses would return results with the word Law specified irrespective of whether the reference was included as well. 

Does that match what you are seeing?

Yes, meaning the verse reference doesn't have to be in the heading to return a result. Question: Is this limiting the search to when the verse reference appears within the section under the heading/large text/title? Or is this searching the whole resource for the heading to include the word Law, then the verse reference separately regardless of whether it's in the section under the heading? I ask because as I'm going through the results, so far all the results contain the verse reference in the section with the heading/title/large text including the word Law. But it seems like it would also include results where the whole resource met both criteria regardless of relative location. Does my question make sense? Hopefully that wasn't unclear.

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Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 2:51 PM

Kiyah:

Graham Criddle:

Without the parentheses, the search is looking for places where the heading / large text / title contains both the word Law and the reference.

I would expect that adding in the parentheses would return results with the word Law specified irrespective of whether the reference was included as well. 

Does that match what you are seeing?

Yes, meaning the verse reference doesn't have to be in the heading to return a result. Question: Is this limiting the search to when the verse reference appears within the section under the heading/large text/title? Or is this searching the whole resource for the heading to include the word Law, then the verse reference separately regardless of whether it's in the section under the heading? I ask because as I'm going through the results, so far all the results contain the verse reference in the section with the heading/title/large text including the word Law. But it seems like it would also include results where the whole resource met both criteria regardless of relative location. Does my question make sense? Hopefully that wasn't unclear.

Never mind. I think I found a bad result. Just trying to see if I understand how this search works.

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Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 3:11 PM

Kiyah:
Is this limiting the search to when the verse reference appears within the section under the heading/large text/title? Or is this searching the whole resource for the heading to include the word Law, then the verse reference separately regardless of whether it's in the section under the heading?

Basic searches always operate within the context of a single "article". Unfortunately, the exact bounds of an article are not always consistently defined from one resource to the next and are not always exactly what you might want.

You might find a heading in the middle of an article. You could work around this by using the BEFORE operator instead of AND. This would ensure that the text in the heading is found in the text before the reference.

You can get a sense of article boundaries using the Article navigation option in the Locator bar for the resource (if not visible, use the panel menu to display it).

You may also find a top level heading in a different article than some of the content of the text belonging to that heading (such as when a long section of text has multiple subsections). In this situation, your search may not be able to find any results because the heading and reference might not be in the same resource article. Unfortunately, there isn't really a workaround for this.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 3:32 PM

Andrew Batishko:
You might find a heading in the middle of an article. You could work around this by using the BEFORE operator instead of AND. This would ensure that the text in the heading is found in the text before the reference.

Basic Search example (can be used in application and Web App to look for Law in Heading or Large Text followed shortly by 1 Timothy 1:8-11):

([field heading,largetext] law) BEFORE 77 WORDS <1Ti1.8-11>

Keep Smiling Smile

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Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 3:48 PM

Andrew Batishko:

Basic searches always operate within the context of a single "article". Unfortunately, the exact bounds of an article are not always consistently defined from one resource to the next and are not always exactly what you might want.

You might find a heading in the middle of an article. You could work around this by using the BEFORE operator instead of AND. This would ensure that the text in the heading is found in the text before the reference.

This is super helpful. Thanks Andrew and Keep Smiling!

Posts 132
Bill | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 4:30 PM

Is this any help?

[field heading,largetext,title]Law AND <1 Timothy 1:8-11> 

Posts 112
Morgan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 4:39 PM

This has been a very helpful thread. I'm finding results with the given methods. Thank you for everyone's input!

As a follow up question, what is the difference between searching as discussed so far vs. <1 Timothy 1> INTERSECTS {Headword Law}. I'm getting very different results and trying to understand what determines Headword in a resource.

And Is there a way to do a Headword search without having the exact headword? I'm referencing the methods in this thread here. It looks that Mark needed to use very specific syntax to get any meaningful results.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2022 6:18 PM

Morgan Bradley:
As a follow up question, what is the difference between searching as discussed so far vs. <1 Timothy 1> INTERSECTS {Headword Law}. I'm getting very different results and trying to understand what determines Headword in a resource.

Searches <1 Timothy 1> INTERSECTS {Headword Law} and <1 Timothy 1> WITHIN {Headword Law} are identical (looks for Bible reference WITHIN an article having Headword Law). Headword searching requires resource to have Headword tagging, which appears in resource information indexing as English Headwords

(<1Ti1.8-11> WITHIN {Headword Law}) OR (([field heading,largetext] law) BEFORE 77 WORDS <1Ti1.8-11>)

Screen shot shows Bible reference result color showing which search found the Bible reference.

Morgan Bradley:
And Is there a way to do a Headword search without having the exact headword? I'm referencing the methods in this thread here. It looks that Mark needed to use very specific syntax to get any meaningful results.

Part of the speed design for Headword searching is exact spelling.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 8:09 AM

Morgan Bradley:
As a follow up question, what is the difference between searching as discussed so far vs. <1 Timothy 1> INTERSECTS {Headword Law}. I'm getting very different results and trying to understand what determines Headword in a resource.

A headword is what's called a milestone, which is a section of a book that has been tagged in an index by Faithlife. Milestones can also be references, such as the Bible references in a Bible or commentary. Just like with a Bible reference milestone, you can navigate to a specific location in a book using a headword by typing in the navigation box at the top of the resource panel.

You commonly see headwords used in dictionary, lexicon, and encyclopedia type resources to allow you to navigate to a specific entry in the book. You can tell a resource uses headwords by checking the Indexes section of the information page on the resource. There it will indicate that headwords are present in a specific language.

Headwords don't have any formal consistency, which means that there is no guarantee of a consistent term that might be used to capture a single concept across all resources (although lexicons and dictionaries are generally much more consistent than encyclopedias). However, you can see the headword at a location in the resource by right clicking in the text.

Headwords have the benefit that they accurately mark (excepting a tagging error) the boundaries of a block of text about a subject.

The search you get from Factbook includes headwords, and often multiple headwords (based on alternate titles) in an attempt to catch as many articles about a subject as possible, but it is still no guarantee to find them all given the inconsistencies in naming.

Morgan Bradley:
And Is there a way to do a Headword search without having the exact headword?

There is not.

Andrew Batishko | Faithlife software developer

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2022 12:54 PM

Morgan Bradley:
This has been a very helpful thread.

You might consider a Search of bible commentaries instead of dictionaries e.g.

Image

  • enter type:commentary (or type:bible-commentary) instead of selecting a collection
  • this looks for an article on Law within comments on 1 Timothy 1 i.e. within a commentary that covers the book of 1 Timothy.
  • 1 Timothy 1 allows for the fact that comments may only appear against the chapter.
  • as an alternative to {Milestone....}  enter 1 Timothy 1 instead of using All Passages:-

Image

Dave
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