Thompson Chain References and cross references

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Feb 15 2022 4:51 AM

Why does the Thompson Chain References not employ the cross references within resources? 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 5:37 AM

Christian Alexander:

Why does the Thompson Chain References not employ the cross references within resources? 

Sorry but I don't understand your question -  please clarify

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Christian Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 7:59 AM

The Cross References databases do not use Thompson Chain resources. 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 8:05 AM

Christian Alexander:

The Cross References databases do not use Thompson Chain resources. 

So far, only former WS users have this resource. It is scheduled for release early next month. All that to say that those who usually have answers do not have them for this resource yet Crying

Perhaps, when FL releases the full resource, those databases will be included—but I have no inside info.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 8:12 AM

Christian Alexander:

The Cross References databases do not use Thompson Chain resources. 

Yes - the Cross Reference section in the Passage Guide (for example) has two sections:

  1. Links to two resources (The New Treasury of Scripture KnowlegeThe Treasury of Scripture Knowledge)
  2. Cross-references drawn from the Bibles we own

as Jack says, the Thompson Chain resource has not generally shipped yet. It would require work to integrate it into this section. Like Jack, I don't know if this is planned.

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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 12:25 PM

Things like the Cross Referencing not referencing WordSearch books that have been transitioned into Logos... makes me wonder what good some of the "referencing tools" are IF they do not reference WordSearch books.

For me, and probably a lot of WordSearch users... the majority of our books in Logos came from WordSearch. The are identified with "ws...." and hopefully will be made so that any referencing tool will reference them also. It might be a long time until Logos buys all the books.... that came from WordSearch...

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 12:41 PM

xnman:
Things like the Cross Referencing not referencing WordSearch books that have been transitioned into Logos... makes me wonder what good some of the "referencing tools" are IF they do not reference WordSearch books.

I do understand that.

I looked into this a bit further, and there is one additional resource that does appear in the Cross Reference section - but only when looking at the Psalms. For a resource to appear here it needs to be of type Bible Cross-Reference Index

So I guess the question for Faithlife is whether they have any plans to configure the Thompson Chain Reference resource (or any other resources from WordSearch) as this type. And I have no idea what is actually involved in making that happen.

xnman:
It might be a long time until Logos buys all the books.... that came from WordSearch...

And again I have no knowledge of what was involved in that process but I assumed that Faithlife obtained licences for all the WordSearch resources that they have been transferring across. If so, I wouldn't expect that would need to buy them.

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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 1:12 PM

Graham Criddle:

And again I have no knowledge of what was involved in that process but I assumed that Faithlife obtained licences for all the WordSearch resources that they have been transferring across. If so, I wouldn't expect that would need to buy them.

I would think that when Logos purchased WordSearch... the licensing of the books would be a natural part of the process.  What confused me is why does the WordSearch books have the designation of "ws..." in the book numer in Logos.

I am sure all this will be worked out... and is probably being worked on as we speak...

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 1:19 PM

xnman:
Things like the Cross Referencing not referencing WordSearch books that have been transitioned into Logos

I have no way of checking this but you can. In the information panel, is there a cross-reference field?

Err 1

Then if you find a cross-reference that does not show in the lower portion of the Cross-reference guide, report it. Kyle has only to set a flag to get it picked up in the guide. If there is a book that you think should have cross-references but does not have the cross-reference field, bring it to Kyle's attention and he will explain or take care of it. Let us know what you find -- I am curious as to whether this is a misunderstanding or an oversight.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 5:25 PM

MJ. Smith:

I have no way of checking this but you can. In the information panel, is there a cross-reference field?

Err 1

Sorry.... don't find any fields like that in the ones I looked at. Shucks.

Edit: I've checked about 20 of my books.... and the Cross Reference field is not in any of them. Which makes me think again... that some (maybe more) reference tools are not searching the books transitioned from WordSearch.

I have wondered about this for a while now.... because my searches where not getting a lot from my WordSearch books.... maybe I am missing something.... maybe there is a reason.... but I would think searches should search all my books.

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 5:31 PM

Okay, it is appropriate to make a list of those resources and ask if they should have cross-references in Logos as they did in WordSearch. I have no idea what the response will be but it should clarify what Logos means by "cross-reference".

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 5:39 PM

I appreciate your help. Thanks!     ...... I'll work on it later this week. I'm deep into an apologetics study and a study on the Holy Spirit plus building a lesson on The Kingdom....

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2022 11:04 PM

Hi MJ

MJ. Smith:
Okay, it is appropriate to make a list of those resources and ask if they should have cross-references in Logos as they did in WordSearch.

Do you know what type of resources typically would have this search field? I had assumed it was mainly just Bibles, but I've just checked and see some monographs (don't know which) are included as well.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 16 2022 12:49 AM

I am not absolutely positive but the monographs I have seen are ones where a translation of the Bible book was also part of the monograph - which Logos split between Bible, Bible commentary, monograph ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 16 2022 5:11 AM

Graham Criddle:
So I guess the question for Faithlife is whether they have any plans to configure the Thompson Chain Reference resource (or any other resources from WordSearch) as this type. And I have no idea what is actually involved in making that happen.

I doubt that will happen as Thompson is about topic based 'chains' of references which are not necessarily cross-references, which relate to the content/event. For example, look at passages used for Amalek:

  • Gen 36:12  mentions Amalek
  • Dt 25:17 and  Ex 17:8 cross-reference Amalek fighting against Israel
  • 1 Sam 15:3 and 28:18 cross-reference the "fierce wrath" against Amalek but there are many other xref verses not mentioned by Thompson
  • 2 Sam 1:1 and 1 Chron 4:43 relate to striking the remainder of the Amalekites and have a xref in 1 Sam 30:17-20 not mentioned by Thompson

It would be misleading to say that the other passages are cross references for Gen 36:12!

Dave
===

Windows 11 & Android 8

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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 16 2022 2:31 PM

Not to beat on a dead horse.... But... do I have to go thru my whole library and check each book to see if searches and reference guides are searching them?

But IF the Cross Reference Tool is a "topical" cross referencer... then shouldn't something like Nave's Topical Bible Index and New Nave's Topical Bible Index be included? They are not.

These came over from WordSearch for me....Which again makes me think that a lot of WordSearch books that were transitioned into Logos... were somehow overlooked?

Seems like the more I get into this ... the more confuseder I get... Sad

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 16 2022 2:52 PM

xnman,

I do believe there is a topics section in the Passage Guide that includes Nave's and other topical based books. I think that is where Thompson Chain should go. There is a difference between cross references and topical guides. Open the topic section of the PG and it will provide you the source of each topic. 

I hope this helps clarify.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 16 2022 3:05 PM

I do recall WS also separated Xref from Topics as well.  I no longer have it installed so I could be wrong.

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 16 2022 4:19 PM

Graham Criddle:

I looked into this a bit further, and there is one additional resource that does appear in the Cross Reference section - but only when looking at the Psalms. For a resource to appear here it needs to be of type Bible Cross-Reference Index

So I guess the question for Faithlife is whether they have any plans to configure the Thompson Chain Reference resource (or any other resources from WordSearch) as this type.

I have two resources of that type that are not in your list, and one of them is a WS one.

Please use descriptive thread titles to attract helpful posts & save others time. Thanks!

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 16 2022 11:07 PM

SineNomine:
I have two resources of that type that are not in your list, and one of them is a WS one.

That's interesting

What are these resources please?

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