No Church of Christ???

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xnman | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Feb 26 2022 6:07 AM

I hope this is not taken as a complaint because I don't mean it that way.... but...

I notice that there are books and such for Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians... etc and etc....

But... very little (almost nil) for Church of Christ...   Is there something wrong with commentaries and other materials that is written by people in the Church of Christ?

I mean.... I know of people in the Church of Christ that use Logos, several in fact.....

Just wondering out loud.... Geeked

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Posts 112
Morgan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 6:30 AM

You can find some throughout this thread here. Off the top of my head you'll find NIV College Press Commentaries, works by Everett Ferguson, and the Florida College Lectureships.

Speaking anecdotally, and only in reference to those who identify as non-institutional, I just don't think too many are interested in writing outside of their circle and generally stick with Florida College Press or Truth Publication.

Posts 1275
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 6:52 AM

xnman:

I hope this is not taken as a complaint because I don't mean it that way.... but...

I'm wondering why folks often precede their rant, with 'not ranting'. People know a rant will follow, as night after day.

I notice Florida College didn't 'keep going'. More from Abilene would be good.

Posts 1129
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 6:58 AM

DMB:

xnman:

I hope this is not taken as a complaint because I don't mean it that way.... but...

I'm wondering why folks often precede their rant, with 'not ranting'. People know a rant will follow, as night after day.

I notice Florida College didn't 'keep going'. More from Abilene would be good.

Didn't mean for my question to be a rant..... but maybe I need to learn.....how does one ask a question without it being a rant?Geeked

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Posts 1275
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 8:16 AM

xnman:

Didn't mean for my question to be a rant..... but maybe I need to learn.....how does one ask a question without it being a rant?Geeked

That's easy ... just skip the rant!  "I'd really be thrilled with more Church of Christ volumes ... Logos has some, but here's more .... and then your list (voting presumably).  Remember, almost no one at Logos is familiar with COC or DOC etc.

Posts 1058
Lew Worthington | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 11:23 AM

xnman:

Didn't mean for my question to be a rant..... but maybe I need to learn.....how does one ask a question without it being a rant?Geeked

No prob. It wasn't a rant and it seemed to be a legit question asked with gentleness and sincerity. 🙂

Posts 309
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 1:46 PM

Lew Worthington:

xnman:

Didn't mean for my question to be a rant..... but maybe I need to learn.....how does one ask a question without it being a rant?Geeked

No prob. It wasn't a rant and it seemed to be a legit question asked with gentleness and sincerity. 🙂

It was not a rant, xnman.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 1:51 PM

xnman:
very little (almost nil) for Church of Christ...  

This has been noted before:

My suspicion is that the fragmentation of the group - each with their own publishers and authors - makes the movement difficult to work with. I know in a different denomination one publisher refuses to allow their resources to be sold bundled with those of a more liberal publisher in the same denomination. But the threads referenced above (not a comprehensive list) give you a clue as to how to keep the pressure on FaithLife and perhaps help them to wend their way through the fragmentation.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 122
Greg Dement | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 3:13 PM

Very puzzled by the accusation of a rant?? ….and to tell xnman to “remember, almost no one at Logos is familiar with COC or DOC, etc” as if we all know what Logos is or is not familiar with. Not to rant about rant accusations Zip it!  Stick out tongue

Posts 1275
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 3:20 PM

Greg Dement:

Very puzzled by the accusation of a rant?? ….and to tell xnman to “remember, almost no one at Logos is familiar with COC or DOC, etc” as if we all know what Logos is or is not familiar with. Not to rant about rant accusations Zip it!  Stick out tongue

No need to rant, Greg ... being puzzled is fine.

Posts 719
Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 5:50 PM

xnman:

But... very little (almost nil) for Church of Christ...   Is there something wrong with commentaries and other materials that is written by people in the Church of Christ?

Your post is fine. I didn't even notice the beginning, like I do not notice "once upon a time ...". It was fine!

I have taken courses with a few online unaccredited Bible colleges. One of them is Church of Christ. I would love to purchase a Church of Christ package for papers submitted to that school. I only recently learned that here, Church of Christ falls within something called the "Restoration Movement". Okay. I recently got a couple books from the library on denominations because I am so confused. Academics use terms that laypeople never use. In one of the books, Jehovah Witnesses were lumped with SDA. I don't know about academics, but a lot of laypeople are not going to want to see those two groups lumped together in the same package in Logos.

A Church of Christ package is overdue. A package about and by women is overdue. A 1662 Book of Common Prayer with updated spelling is overdue. The 1662 is still the official BCP for the church of England, and there are multiple editions from multiple publishers, and texts in the public domain all with the updated spelling. Logos is making gains with packages by and about African Americans but still lags in resources by and about Africa. There are some things that are overdue. It is not wrong to state that overdue things are overdue.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 6:42 PM

Kathleen Marie:
It is not wrong to state that overdue things are overdue.

No, its not. But one also needs to show that there is a sufficient market before calling them overdue - make concrete suggestions for what should be included, round up votes, ensure that related resources are funded quickly. Faithlife runs on the premise that they do not borrow money which, from watching them for a couple of decades seems to mean that they rarely produce resources that will create a market but rather have the market before producing the resources.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 719
Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 26 2022 11:19 PM

MJ. Smith:

Kathleen Marie:
It is not wrong to state that overdue things are overdue.

No, its not. But one also needs to show that there is a sufficient market before calling them overdue - make concrete suggestions for what should be included, round up votes, ensure that related resources are funded quickly. Faithlife runs on the premise that they do not borrow money which, from watching them for a couple of decades seems to mean that they rarely produce resources that will create a market but rather have the market before producing the resources.

With power comes responsibility. I am not sure when the lines actually get crossed, when a group has enough power that they have a specific responsibility, but Logos is rapidly gaining more and more power. The worldwide church is impacted by the choices made by Logos. The Logos resources are not equal.

Slums stay slums based on the idea that they must pay for themselves. Often the people outside the slums are comfortable with this. They are not going to borrow or sacrifice to fund a slum that cannot pull itself out of its poverty. Those outside the slum fund their own schools and roads and water pipes, without debt, and running on the premises that they choose. They have the power to do that. At least for awhile. Sometimes, though, after a bit, inequality has ways of imploding and toppling.

I only NEED Logos for the things that I think of as hamster-wheel activities. I know when I get quiet that I do not need Logos to serve and worship God in the ways that I know are most important. I use Logos to write academic papers and be included in the rat-race stuff of the church. The stuff the Bible warns us about. For now, the Lord seems to want me on the wheel. I am here. I am running on my wheel as hard and fast as I can. I try to figure out what I am to do and learn while here.

Safe drinking water and sewerage that does not overflow back up into our homes is overdue in my slum. Speed limits and signs stating those limits are overdue for the 8 lane highway that runs straight through the center of our slum and that results in far too many pedestrian deaths. We are literally dying, but the people in the gated communities say that they would have to change their business models to give us the same standard of living that they enjoy.

Thanks for saying what you did. Until I wrote this out, and compared these two thing to each other, I didn't understand what I do now. Maybe things are not overdue even if people are dying or are highly impactful in a negative way. Maybe what is due and what is just are not the same thing. I will have to think and pray about this. And whatever conclusion that I do come to, I know to refrain from so quickly stating things are overdue in the church. Overdue is part of a just world philosophy that I had given up in general, but still struggle with expecting from the church. Justice in the church is a very controversial topic right now, and always has been, and I need to remember that.

Okay, I admit that I was wrong. There is nothing overdue in Logos. I am not being sarcastic, just ... tired, very very tired. And sad.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2022 12:18 AM

I suspect that you fell for the common trap - Faithlife is not a ministry; it is a business. It is partially this attitude on the part of the owners that have kept it viable while other Bible software has failed. I'd be surprised if they thought of their position in terms of power. Those of us who are far from the primary theological focus of Faithlife don't expect even our most basic needs to be met by Logos/Verbum, despite constantly pushing for them for a broad range of denominations. Instead, we treat FL as providing a useful tool for a specific segment of our needs. But even when exploring topics that represent the mainstream FL perspective, I find less than 2/3 of my necessary resources available in Logos.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2962
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2022 6:00 AM

Kathleen Marie:
  Jehovah Witnesses were lumped with SDA.  

Maybe because both send some door to door by twos. One just does it more often.   As do others.

Posts 1275
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2022 6:51 AM

David Ames:

Maybe because both send some door to door by twos. One just does it more often.   As do others.

I didn't know that.  We get Jehovah Witnesses ... I always encourage them, even if I don't agree. But I'm impressed, and likely they get a lot of closed-doors.

Posts 1275
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2022 6:57 AM

Kathleen Marie:

Okay, I admit that I was wrong. There is nothing overdue in Logos. I am not being sarcastic, just ... tired, very very tired. And sad.

Restoration and Church of Christ keep coming up, at least for 12 years that I know of.  And there is such fragmentation, that even in the threads, there is often a silence, when the 'wrong' resource is suggested.  I think if I worked at FL and wanted to pursue, I'd almost have to go to the primary colleges (as example, a Pepperdine or Abilene, but that quickly illustrates the fragmentation; they'd be different).

Then there's the issue of prepubs  that might be introduced ... enough volume?  It's not an easy question.  The Logos endpoint is likely historical volumes, as with the Latter Day Saints grouping.

Posts 1168
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2022 12:49 PM

DMB:

Restoration and Church of Christ keep coming up, at least for 12 years that I know of.  And there is such fragmentation, that even in the threads, there is often a silence, when the 'wrong' resource is suggested...

I think it's doable, and perhaps not even that hard. Many core resources for Bible study aren't that tied to a specific denomination. I'm thinking of lexicons, grammars, Bible dictionaries, maps, cross-references, Bible translations, original language resources, etc. Many commentaries are widely used beyond their "home" denomination - especially older ones. For instance, every church of Christ I attended as a child had a copy of Barnes' Notes in the church library. Today you'll see a variety of broadly "evangelical" works, as well as C.S. Lewis and other modern Christian classics. I suspect that 60 percent or more of a "Restoration Movement" base package would be general works like that, perhaps leaning a bit more towards Arminian and Baptist works, and a bit less Calvinist and Reformed, than the Standard base packages.

Beyond that, Logos already has a number of works from Restoration Movement writers, as has been pointed out in several previous threads. They don't all come from the same particular strain of the Restoration Movement. Without looking them all up again, I recall that there's a lot of stuff from College Press, a good bit of stuff from Everette Ferguson, the Coffman Commentaries, a large set of the Florida College lectureships, some of Alexander Campbell's writings, the Gospel Advocate commentaries are in pre-pub, a Thomas B. Warren collection, and some other resources that skip my mind at the moment. Granted, there's not enough there to do an "Ultimate" Restoration Movement package, but my sense is that you could put together a pretty solid Silver or Gold level package.

Granted, it wouldn't be tied to any one branch of the Restoration Movement, but I suspect you could say the same thing of the Baptist or Reformed packages. They reflect the broad tradition, but don't line up exactly with the views of any one church within that tradition.

Posts 1129
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2022 6:56 PM

Well...  as to the fragmentation..... tell me of a denomination that isn't fragmented by some doctrine or ideology? For example.... Catholics are fragmentized because of Bishops now accepting gay marriages.... and the list goes on with other denominations. We all know this. So to make the argument that materials for the Church of Christ is not present because of fragmentation.... doesn't hold water.

As to members of the Church of Christ that hold different viewpoints.... as I have studied... there are 38,000 different denominations..... could someone please point to a denomination that everyone in that denomination thinks the same way?

So my question is valid.... why are there not more materials for Church of Christ people in Logos?  Believe me, there are tons of material available....  Geeked

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 27 2022 8:38 PM

xnman:
For example.... Catholics are fragmentized because of Bishops now accepting gay marriages

What faux-news site are you following? Even if some bishops are accepting gay marriages that would not create fragmentation in the Church. Do you have any idea how much continuity exists in the Catholic/Eastern Orthodox/Oriental Orthodox churches? The Maronites (Catholic) and the Antiochian Oriental Orthodox were ready to sign a mutual recognition statement that required two things: (a) an acknowledgement that there was no difference of significance in their beliefs and (b) that the role of the Pope was as it was understood in the tenth century.  That is how much two churches separated by geographic and ecclesial structure had split over circa 1600 years. Fragmentation is unwillingness to share communion, recognize baptisms, requiring new church membership rather than a simple registration, unwillingness to work together on projects, ... the Catholic/Eastern Orthodox/Oriental Orthodox churches remain united despite a wide range of beliefs outside the core dogma. The majority of Christianity is not fragmented although there are always some splinter groups who ultimately get absorbed back in ... fragmentation is a characteristic of certain churches especially in particular cultures.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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