No Church of Christ???

Page 2 of 2 (36 items) < Previous 1 2
This post has 35 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 1188
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 28 2022 7:07 AM

MJ. Smith:

 ... fragmentation is a characteristic of certain churches especially in particular cultures.

That's doubtless true. Certainly current U.S. culture encourages an individualism where each one of us becomes our own arbiter of truth.  And certain church traditions make it easier to set up your own splinter group. 

I do think it's fair to say that there's a significant diversity of thought and practice within some of the traditions that FaithLife has targeted with base packages.  And to the original point, I also think that a package that drew broadly from the Restoration Movement tradition would be a useful addition to FaithLife's portfolio. 

Posts 1659
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 28 2022 7:22 AM

EastTN:

That's doubtless true. Certainly current U.S. culture encourages an individualism where each one of us becomes our own arbiter of truth.  And certain church traditions make it easier to set up your own splinter group. 

I'm skating dangerously near thin theological ice. But weren't the early Restoration advocates, supporters of individual truth (if memory serves, even described as the male gender!). And theologically, with 25 (used to be 30) churches in our phone book, does the Eternal Judge make allowances for selecting the wrong one? Or a preacher who taught the wrong one? Or parents who presumably led their kids astray (picked the wrong one).

I pose these, only to illustrate that there is little in the way of inter-denominational resource discussions in Logos; mostly historical positions. MJ will correct me, but I think the Catholic church mediates, where the COC doesn't.  As an example.

Posts 1188
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 28 2022 8:06 AM

DMB:

I'm skating dangerously near thin theological ice. But weren't the early Restoration advocates, supporters of individual truth (if memory serves, even described as the male gender!). And theologically, with 25 (used to be 30) churches in our phone book, does the Eternal Judge make allowances for selecting the wrong one? Or a preacher who taught the wrong one? Or parents who presumably led their kids astray (picked the wrong one).

I don't want to violate the forum rules by veering off into a theological debate. I will say that - as someone who grew up in and is still a part of the churches of Christ - I find the history of the Restoration Movement to be sadly ironic.  As a matter of history, it originated on what was then the U.S. frontier as an effort to back away from some of the existing denominational divisions, using a particular strategy. That strategy (the "restoration plea") involved trying to recreate the doctrine and practice of the 1st century church using only scripture, and not any of the current denominational creeds. Just for MJ, I'll add that what was driving this was not so much the ancient ecumenical creeds, but the much more detailed and expansive doctrinal statements such as the Westminster Confession of Faith and 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith that defined specific denominations. They were seen as barriers to Christian unity.

In some ways this strategy was initially very effective - the Campbell and Stone movements were very different in some important ways, but were able to unite. But long term, the movement fragmented badly. Just looking at them today, if you didn't know the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) had the same historical roots as the more conservative congregations among the churches of Christ, you'd say that they must be entirely unrelated.

And that's just a microcosm of the division we see in the broader history of Christianity. I pray for unity, but how we find it in a fallen world on this side of heaven is beyond me.

Posts 1265
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 28 2022 2:41 PM

MJ. Smith:

What faux-news site are you following? Even if some bishops are accepting gay marriages that would not create fragmentation in the Church. Do you have any idea how much continuity exists in the Catholic/Eastern Orthodox/Oriental Orthodox churches? The Maronites (Catholic) and the Antiochian Oriental Orthodox were ready to sign a mutual recognition statement that required two things: (a) an acknowledgement that there was no difference of significance in their beliefs and (b) that the role of the Pope was as it was understood in the tenth century.  That is how much two churches separated by geographic and ecclesial structure had split over circa 1600 years. Fragmentation is unwillingness to share communion, recognize baptisms, requiring new church membership rather than a simple registration, unwillingness to work together on projects, ... the Catholic/Eastern Orthodox/Oriental Orthodox churches remain united despite a wide range of beliefs outside the core dogma. The majority of Christianity is not fragmented although there are always some splinter groups who ultimately get absorbed back in ... fragmentation is a characteristic of certain churches especially in particular cultures.

I have said so much already that the Logos Forum Police Department (LFPD) probably had lined up their radar on me.... But my friend...  believe me, we could have a great discussion about some of this.... I appreciate the kindness you showed in replying.

My point was.... that while there is some fragmentation in the Church of Christ... over such doctrines..... other religious bodies have the same fragmentation.... it's the different doctrines that fragmentize. It was called fragmentation because of it happening in the Church of Christ yet it happens to all...  And yet Logos seems to have lots of books, materials, etc. for those groups. But I still find the Church of Christ (while having a few books and such) lacking greatly in comparison to others.  The Church of Christ doesn't have enough materials to be listed as bonafide group of religious beings as other groups are.

Maybe someone is trying to "convert" me to some other religious group as I have to read other groups materials? Hmmmm..... lol  Geeked

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

Posts 36364
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 28 2022 2:54 PM

The difference is, I suppose, that several handbooks of denominations and encyclopedias end up defining 2 or 3 of the Church of Christ groups' divisions then tell you to mix and match for at least 27 denominations. This is not how other denominations are handled. In the forums, the people using the term "fragmentation" all grew up in or are currently working in the movement. I agree that it would be nice to have more Stone-Campbell resources - suggest and garner votes to get them. Continue to push for a base package but don't forget that the Anabaptists deserve one as well. And factor into the mix my warning that < 25% of Christians count for > 90% of the denominations (rough estimates from membership statistics).

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1265
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 28 2022 3:49 PM

Well.... I could and probably will, suggest some books for Logos to consider.... but from what I've seen already, it's probably a lost cause.

I have built many gig of pdf's.  I am slowly converting them into PBs... which is probably as close as I will come to having such material....

Thanks to all for the discussion.....

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

Posts 36364
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 28 2022 5:20 PM

I hope you have noticed that Calvin Habig has converted a number of Stone-Campbell resources to PB already. eg

Isaac Errett's "Our Position" - Faithlife Forums (logos.com)

Alexander Campbell's Theology-Its Sources and Historical Setting - Faithlife Forums (logos.com)

Prayer in Christian Theology-A.L. Lilley - Faithlife Forums (logos.com)

Thomas Campbell's Declaration and Address - Faithlife Forums (logos.com) etc.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1188
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 28 2022 7:29 PM

MJ. Smith:

Yes, I have - and I'm very grateful.   He's obviously put a great deal of work into it, and created a nice collection of some important historical works.  It's a very generous gift to the Logos community.

Posts 14
David McClister | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 19 2022 6:02 AM

DMB:

I notice Florida College didn't 'keep going'. More from Abilene would be good.

For the record, Florida College has submitted the rest of its collection of annual lecture books to Logos. When published, the entire set will be up to date.

Posts 1659
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 19 2022 7:58 AM

David McClister:

DMB:

I notice Florida College didn't 'keep going'. More from Abilene would be good.

For the record, Florida College has submitted the rest of its collection of annual lecture books to Logos. When published, the entire set will be up to date.

Thanks, David!  That's reassuring news.

Now, for Abilene.

Posts 1265
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 20 2022 5:33 PM

David McClister:

DMB:

I notice Florida College didn't 'keep going'. More from Abilene would be good.

For the record, Florida College has submitted the rest of its collection of annual lecture books to Logos. When published, the entire set will be up to date.

Thanks... I take heart   and have hope! Geeked

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

Posts 9176
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2022 3:49 PM

I have the Spiritual Sword Lectureship books on PDF, also the Spiritual Sword Quarterly Magazine, the Denton Lectureship Books, the Power Lectureships, the MSOP Lectureships along with other books. 
It would be nice to have them in Logos format.

There are plenty of resources for at least a silver base package.  Hey, that’s how the Pentecostal/Charismatic base package began and then as time went by they got to Gold — Portfolio. There are already 3 or more sets of CoC commentaries in Logos that I can think of (College Press, Coffman and Gospel Advocate).  Living Word Series could be added along with others.

The main hurdle is too many publishers and some authors not wanting their books available in digital format because “it’s their retirement“ (whatever they mean by that).  So it may not be Faithlife’s fault that we don’t have a COC or Restorationist base package...ironic, isn’t it 🤦🏻‍♂️😁 Oh well, at least I have resources from almost every religious flavor to study the Bible. 👍

DAL

Posts 9176
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2022 3:55 PM

DMB:

David McClister:

DMB:

I notice Florida College didn't 'keep going'. More from Abilene would be good.

For the record, Florida College has submitted the rest of its collection of annual lecture books to Logos. When published, the entire set will be up to date.

Thanks, David!  That's reassuring news.

Now, for Abilene.

Maybe they have the New Heavens-New Earth N.T. Wright view included in those lectureship books. Also annihilationism doctrine embraced by Homer Hailey and others.  I know N.T. Wright’s doctrine in his Surprised by Hope book is being embraced by many COC preachers. N.T. Wright has even been a guest speaker at OCU, maybe Abilene too, I don’t remember, but OCU for sure.

DAL

Posts 1265
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2022 3:19 PM

DAL:

I have the Spiritual Sword Lectureship books on PDF, also the Spiritual Sword Quarterly Magazine, the Denton Lectureship Books, the Power Lectureships, the MSOP Lectureships along with other books. 
It would be nice to have them in Logos format.

There are plenty of resources for at least a silver base package.  Hey, that’s how the Pentecostal/Charismatic base package began and then as time went by they got to Gold — Portfolio. There are already 3 or more sets of CoC commentaries in Logos that I can think of (College Press, Coffman and Gospel Advocate).  Living Word Series could be added along with others.

The main hurdle is too many publishers and some authors not wanting their books available in digital format because “it’s their retirement“ (whatever they mean by that).  So it may not be Faithlife’s fault that we don’t have a COC or Restorationist base package...ironic, isn’t it 🤦🏻‍♂️😁 Oh well, at least I have resources from almost every religious flavor to study the Bible. 👍

DAL

I'd be interested in all of them....  In my files I have several which I turned to PDF for my personal use. I don't have permission to share them...  I wrote letters asking for permission and the main reply was... "once it gets in digital format.. there is not security for it"...  I gave up trying.... but I use them for myself.... and I do... often.

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

Posts 1659
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2022 5:36 PM

DAL:

Maybe they have the New Heavens-New Earth N.T. Wright view included in those lectureship books. Also annihilationism doctrine embraced by Homer Hailey and others.  I know N.T. Wright’s doctrine in his Surprised by Hope book is being embraced by many COC preachers. N.T. Wright has even been a guest speaker at OCU, maybe Abilene too, I don’t remember, but OCU for sure.

I hope we don't speculate too much ... FC generally isn't a 'person'-driven world. But Everett tried hard to rescue Homer. Felt he got too old in his exegesis (I guess):

https://www.insearchoftruth.org/articles/eternal_punishment.html 

Posts 9176
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 13 2022 7:11 PM

Thank you for the link, DMB! Lots of good content there 👍😁👌

DAL

Page 2 of 2 (36 items) < Previous 1 2 | RSS