Can you help us improve search?

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This post has 77 Replies | 4 Followers

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LogosEmployee
Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 14 2022 8:00 AM

Fabian:
Is there a shortcut to open a "Search panel"?

Check the very bottom of the help file for a list of keyboard shortcuts.

Alt+S on Windows and Shift+Cmd+S on Mac.

Fabian:
If I open the Calwer Bibellexikon and I choose "Verfasser" means "author" then why the suggestions don't work? And if this work is not prepared for this, then why I can mark to search for "Verfasser". For example "Roos" is one. So I check the box for Verfasser and type "r". Heaven help! There are many words that come up but not "Roos". And then I would like to search in the texts this author wrote. I should then have as second command or search field. Either I or Logos is stupid.

If I'm understanding you correctly, then you are correct that when you select a Search Field, it does not affect the autocomplete suggestions. It only affects the list of search results. The reason why Roos does not come up when you just type "r" is that there are far too many words that start with "r", so the list of options is capped.

Note that search fields are provided to limit your searches to text that has been tagged with that field. The names of the authors in that resource is tagged with the field, not the text of what they have written. I'm not aware of any mechanism for doing such a search.

Andrew Batishko | Faithlife software developer

Posts 5968
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 14 2022 7:21 PM

Even if the quality and quantity of existing Search documentation were to remain the same, if all of it actually existed in a Logos resource from Faithlife, that would be a significant improvement. In software designed primarily to handle electronic books, I shouldn't have to worry about things like the Logos Wiki when I'm trying to learn stuff about the software that could be in a book... a book that would be searchable from within the software. Unlike all the search (and other) documentation that is not in a Logos resource.

Please use descriptive thread titles to attract helpful posts & save others time. Thanks!

Posts 188
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2022 8:48 AM

We need the ability to search for Concordance Tool Categories such as all the places in the Book of John, All the Kings in Daniel. All the Women in the Bible.  The Categories of Kind and Subkind are not available to search.

I would like also the ability to narrow the search down by only proper names and create a visual filter.    

Posts 292
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2022 9:29 AM

Andrew Batishko:

If I'm understanding you correctly, then you are correct that when you select a Search Field, it does not affect the autocomplete suggestions. It only affects the list of search results. The reason why Roos does not come up when you just type "r" is that there are far too many words that start with "r", so the list of options is capped.

Note that search fields are provided to limit your searches to text that has been tagged with that field. The names of the authors in that resource is tagged with the field, not the text of what they have written. I'm not aware of any mechanism for doing such a search.

Yes you understand me correct. 

Keep in mind I talk about the Inline Search. Calwer Bibellexikon. If I have set to author and title, then the suggestions should not bring. "R, Re, rov, rev, Rom" etc. and "<> R Anderson-Forbes Morphologie" etc. This has nothing to do with the Milestone author. Then I writhe the semicolon do search for the title. I type "B" and it comes again suggestions that are not a title in this particular resource. 

Logos must recognize the what I have chosen. 

Or simpler I choose Fliesstext, the standard. It gives me <AFMorphHeb A> as suggestion after the words. There is no <AFMorphHeb A> in and no other morph. This is completely useless.

Or I choose Bildnachweis (caption). I type "T" it gives me "Titus". But there is not "Titus" caption. 

Also if the module has no captions, then it should be greyed out. Except I say search in all texts for the caption "Titus".

Logos should bring as suggestions the word of the resource or more narrow the milestones I have chosen. Nothing more. All others has not be listed or greyed out. And if the text has verse references than this should be a field, which I can choose. If I type there "e" Ex, Ezra, Eph etc. should come up. Verse refs that beginns with "e". nothing more nothing less.

Instead of giving <> Anderson-Forbes...bla bla which is not in the text. You  should suggest "Search Fields".

And all Milestones a work has, it should be a Search Field.

Andrew Batishko:
when you select a Search Field, it does not affect the autocomplete suggestions.

But this is what you have to develop for 10. Plus the Search Fields.

You asked to what is to do to improve the search. This is my answer.

Posts 292
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 15 2022 11:57 PM

A side effect to my request above is: Logos would be faster in the Autocomplete as it only searches what it should and not more. 

Posts 1128
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 7:32 AM

Andrew....

I have forgotten you had asked about Search in this thread... but...

I find Search very confusing.... and difficult to learn. Is there a way to simplify the process by having something like drop down menus that would help?

for example....  Under the top level... "Bible - Basic - Media - Clause - Morph" have drop down menus for choices that are associated with each one of the top level?

Then under those top level choices.... when I choose say "Basic".... and then have  choices under it... then have next level of choices.. etc. and etc.  Maybe have a tier of level of choices .... even to the point of involving which brackets to use and how?

To me... that shows how complicated Search is.... 

As it is now....

1. I have to remember which top level to use "Bible - Basic - Media - Clause - Morph" Then ...

2. which brackets "<>[]{}()" to use and

3. which and what words to include in the brackets

4. and even the order of the words within the brackets.... 

And now people want to add more options to an already confusing Search ....?

Is there not a way to simplify it somehow?

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Posts 25
LogosEmployee
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 7:56 AM

xnman:

As it is now....

1. I have to remember which top level to use "Bible - Basic - Media - Clause - Morph" Then ...

2. which brackets "<>[]{}()" to use and

3. which and what words to include in the brackets

4. and even the order of the words within the brackets.... 

And now people want to add more options to an already confusing Search ....?

Is there not a way to simplify it somehow?

There certainly are ways to simplify it - and we're working on ways to do that. It's hard to do it without reducing the power of search, but we're looking at things like:

  • Having clearer defaults, so there's less you have to think about
  • Making hidden options more discoverable, so it's easier to make changes you need
  • Making choices clearer, so it's more obvious what you should choose
  • Removing unnecessary syntax, so you don't need to worry about whether you should use <, [, or {
  • Improving autocomplete, so you get better suggestions when you're not sure what comes next

We won't solve all that overnight, and I can't promise we'll solve all of it entirely, but those are some of our goals.

Posts 292
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 9:48 AM

I like you can search the whole corpus of works in Logos with the search bar. But this should be a second option. The first should be the inline search WITH the autocomplete of the inline words.

Posts 1644
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 2:04 PM

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):

  • Removing unnecessary syntax, so you don't need to worry about whether you should use <, [, or {

Hallelujah! PLEASE do make this a reality. To me, those syntax/brackets represent the biggest hurdle and mystery preventing me from fully understanding and using Logos search.

Please also see the comments in this thread:

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/206971/1205494.aspx#1205494

Posts 25
LogosEmployee
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 3:26 PM

Thanks, PL. I checked out the other thread and have made a few notes. We hear you!

Posts 224
1Cor10:31 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 3:55 PM

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):

There certainly are ways to simplify it - and we're working on ways to do that. It's hard to do it without reducing the power of search, but we're looking at things like:

  • Having clearer defaults, so there's less you have to think about
  • Making hidden options more discoverable, so it's easier to make changes you need
  • Making choices clearer, so it's more obvious what you should choose
  • Removing unnecessary syntax, so you don't need to worry about whether you should use <, [, or {
  • Improving autocomplete, so you get better suggestions when you're not sure what comes next

We won't solve all that overnight, and I can't promise we'll solve all of it entirely, but those are some of our goals.

I right click and almost all the things that show up on the left side of the menu has a corresponding search. I don't need to know the syntax to run all these searches. This is an underappreciated way of auto filling the search syntax. I can then mix and match these searches based on what I am looking for. 

Maybe, there are complicated searches that cannot be done using the above method, but the above is a good start.

Posts 35777
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 4:04 PM

1Cor10:31 - I agree on the power of the Context Menu which is why I'd like to see more information on it especially grammatical and semantic roles.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 25
LogosEmployee
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 4:05 PM

1Cor10:31:

I right click and almost all the things that show up on the left side of the menu has a corresponding search. I don't need to know the syntax to run all these searches. This is an underappreciated way of auto filling the search syntax. I can then mix and match these searches based on what I am looking for. 

Maybe, there are complicated searches that cannot be done using the above method, but the above is a good start.

That's usually how I recommend people create searches too. Of course, it only works if you already know what you're looking for (or at least one instance of it)...

Posts 1644
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 7:03 PM

Right click where, on what? Is there a visual guide or tutorial or examples? Have I been missing something all these years?

Posts 1128
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 7:34 PM

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):

There certainly are ways to simplify it - and we're working on ways to do that. It's hard to do it without reducing the power of search, but we're looking at things like:

  • Having clearer defaults, so there's less you have to think about
  • Making hidden options more discoverable, so it's easier to make changes you need
  • Making choices clearer, so it's more obvious what you should choose
  • Removing unnecessary syntax, so you don't need to worry about whether you should use <, [, or {
  • Improving autocomplete, so you get better suggestions when you're not sure what comes next

We won't solve all that overnight, and I can't promise we'll solve all of it entirely, but those are some of our goals.

Sounds like gooood things coming!  I'm excited all over more than anywhere else! I have not been happy with search!

Thank you! Geeked

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Posts 1128
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 7:38 PM

PL:

Right click where, on what? Is there a visual guide or tutorial or examples? Have I been missing something all these years?

My question also.....  where to right click??   

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Posts 309
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 7:44 PM

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):

There certainly are ways to simplify it - and we're working on ways to do that. It's hard to do it without reducing the power of search, but we're looking at things like:

  • Having clearer defaults, so there's less you have to think about
  • Making hidden options more discoverable, so it's easier to make changes you need
  • Making choices clearer, so it's more obvious what you should choose
  • Removing unnecessary syntax, so you don't need to worry about whether you should use <, [, or {
  • Improving autocomplete, so you get better suggestions when you're not sure what comes next

We won't solve all that overnight, and I can't promise we'll solve all of it entirely, but those are some of our goals.

Thank you + the FL team for your efforts, Mark.

Posts 35777
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 4 2022 8:44 PM

xnman:
My question also.....  where to right click??   

Context Menu – Logos Help Center

Select a word, phrase, sentence, paragraph ... then right click. The menu that comes up it tailored to what you selected so the resulting menu may be very short to very long. Select the type of information you are interested in on the left and actions you can take based on that type of information on the right.

Err 1

Err 2

Err 3

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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