When is Google better than Logos?

Page 1 of 2 (39 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 38 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 737
Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Apr 9 2022 5:38 PM

When do you choose Google over Logos?

Today's research topic was Lazarus Saturday. I had to use Google and some old public domain books to get started and to finish my research. I was able to use Logos for some of the intermediate research, but that was only after laying a foundation of study outside Logos. Then I had to give up and go back outside Logos to finish.

There is a theme to the times that I need to do most of my research outside Logos. I am starting to develop a plan of action and the supplemental resources that I need.

I am curious if anyone else wants to share their plan and/or reasons for heavily supplementing Logos.

I got an advertisement today about the superiority of Logos over Google. It irked me a bit to get that advertisement when I was forced to spend so much time outside Logos after investing so much into Logos.

Posts 36342
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 9 2022 5:46 PM

Kathleen Marie:
When do you choose Google over Logos?

Depends on the topic. Logos/Verbum is weak on liturgical calendars and Orthodoxy ... therefore I would not expect it to be much help on Lazarus Sunday. Similarly if I am looking for contemporary academic papers I go to academia.edu. If I want to find everywhere in the Bible and related literature the event at Meribah is mentioned ... I go to Verbum/Logos.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1644
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 9 2022 7:17 PM

I'd also assume any timely data is going to need google; much of Logos is dated (by being in books and older journals).

There is a bit of irony in Logosians wanting Logos to be as good as google.

Posts 19699
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 9 2022 11:50 PM

I find that Google's fuzzy search logic works better than Logos's much of the time. If I'm having trouble remembering the exact words of a verse, more than half the time, Google does a better job of finding it for me than Logos does.

Google is also good at presenting more relevant hits near the top of the pile for any random topic of research on some theological subject. I can search through my vast Logos library (currently 28k+ resources), but often that returns so many hits that it's too much to wade through, and the relevancy of number of hits per resource isn't really as helpful as Google's algorithm which takes into account how many other pages link to the one in question, i.e., how valued a page is it by the world at large. Web pages might not be as in-depth as the monographs I have in my library, but I often find really good blog posts or magazine/journal articles that simple aren't in Logos.

I'm more of a interdisciplinary generalist than a specialist, and for that reason Google is often my friend alongside Logos.

Posts 9172
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2022 5:20 AM

Google is hands down the best search engine! Logos is good for other searches if you know the “codes” to perform those advanced searches.

DAL

Posts 1188
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2022 6:06 AM

Rosie Perera:

I find that Google's fuzzy search logic works better than Logos's much of the time. If I'm having trouble remembering the exact words of a verse, more than half the time, Google does a better job of finding it for me than Logos does.

I find that to be true also.

Posts 3760
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2022 7:28 AM

When do you choose Google over Logos?

For simple facts or for any depth, Google to start. I'll try Logos if Google helps narrow a search term so Logos can quickly find it. 

I resonate with each reason for Google over Logos cited above.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB

Posts 1342
Liam | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2022 11:03 AM

When searching for a Bible reference. If I know the words but can’t think of the verse address Google is far superior to logos.

Posts 9842
Forum MVP
Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2022 1:03 PM

Rosie Perera:
I find that Google's fuzzy search logic works better than Logos's much of the time. If I'm having trouble remembering the exact words of a verse, more than half the time, Google does a better job of finding it for me than Logos does.

I too take the same approach. I wish Logo's fuzzy search would work as well but I'm guessing Google has poured massive amounts of money into their platform compared to Logos.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 36342
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2022 1:57 PM

Google comes with power " but Gartner estimated in a July 2016 report that Google at the time had 2.5 million servers" but at a cost of electricity use, cooling costs, . . . while I get by using a single multi-purpose desktop, no employees, no cooling tower steam . . .

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1262
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2022 7:26 PM

I would like to depend wholly on Logos.. but like others have mentioned... I find myself going to google to find things. For me, Logos gives lot of non-related information about about some things I search for.... when that happen.... walla walla bingo... Pop google and go.

I am wondering if some of the guides (Factbook and such) are going to be used to try and answer all this....??????

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

Posts 1397
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 10 2022 10:14 PM

I just had a good example:

When preaching, I really like to be sure about the sources of any quotes or stories I share--there are so many that are commonly misattributed that it rankles the scholar in me to be sloppy with them. I'm mulling the story about the Apostle John that, when he was old, would go around only telling people "love one another." I heard that one long ago but never with a source.

How do I go about searching for that? A simple Logos search for "John" and "love one another" is going to come up with a lot of hits that aren't relevant to the specific question. I opened Factbook for "John the Apostle" then started scanning all my related dictionary articles. One (and only one) of them reported that Jerome was one who repeated that tradition.

Okay, so I open my church fathers volumes for Jerome and searched within them. I only have Schaff (sorry! I can't afford the others), and nothing relevant came up. As a last step, I went over to Google and typed "Jerome John love one another." One of the top hits said it came from Jerome's commentary on Gal. 6:10 (which I don't have). A couple clicks and I was in the source and satisfied to use the story as an illustration.

(Okay so I spent 20+ minutes doing that and writing this post for a line that will take me about 30 seconds on Maundy Thursday. It was fun and scratched a longstanding itch.)

Oh, and I also use Google to find Bible verse that are just on the tip of my tongue. Fuzzy search has come a long way, but Google is still faster.

Posts 737
Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 11 2022 9:26 PM

Thank you for all this.

I wish Logos tutorials taught Logos as PART of the research process.

Posts 1304
Armin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 12 2022 2:40 AM

Sean:

I also use Google to find Bible verse that are just on the tip of my tongue. Fuzzy search has come a long way, but Google is still faster.

I also still find that Google is faster and more accurate when trying to find things. However, Fuzzy Search in Logos has significantly improved. I recently did switch from searching for a Bible verse using Google to using Fuzzy Search in Logos.

Posts 5
Tim Wells | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 12 2022 7:34 AM

I think anyone would and should use all resources available to them. For example, when I go into town, I don't just go to Walmart or Home Depot to get everything; I choose a number of different stores depending on my needs.

While Logos would like to be the one-stop-shop (and there is nothing wrong with that), it likely cannot be that.

That said, I use both and more when looking for information.

Posts 1644
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 12 2022 7:55 AM

Kathleen Marie:

I wish Logos tutorials taught Logos as PART of the research process.

There's probably a lot of truth in your point. I remember eary Bible college. They had a nice library, and part of the curriculum was a tour of the library. It was nice, but looking back, didn't achieve the point ... using a library. Each student was hit or miss (or share notes). In Logos, there's often 3 ways to skin the cat, and tricks to get around weaknesses in the search algorythms. 

Posts 5193
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 12 2022 8:08 AM

Armin:

Sean:

I also use Google to find Bible verse that are just on the tip of my tongue. Fuzzy search has come a long way, but Google is still faster.

I also still find that Google is faster and more accurate when trying to find things. However, Fuzzy Search in Logos has significantly improved. I recently did switch from searching for a Bible verse using Google to using Fuzzy Search in Logos.

Agreed though I still have to go to google sometimes because Fuzzy search isn't fuzzy enough

Posts 1262
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 12 2022 4:52 PM

So the question becomes.... how could Logos improve Search to help us to use it more? It seems to be a big thing in Logos....

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

Posts 36342
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 12 2022 5:18 PM

Without the large server farms and data servers behind Google, Faithlife will never match their results. If you want it to run on your desktop, there are incremental improvements we should see ... but matching google?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1033
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 12 2022 6:43 PM

Kathleen:

There was a thread to try Logos to develop a kind of encyclopedia ran by Artificial Intelligence. The short answer was that it was too expensive and complex to do something like that.

Google has much more resources (people, R & D funds, etc), so that is why is easier to find information there.

Now my understanding is that the information found in Google does not always match the expertise found in a particular resource.

So basically to grasp some key concepts in an area Google is good, but to actually go in deep for expert's analysis of the subject, resources are better. Of course this depends on the area we are researching also.

Problem is as mentioned, some of the resources are a bit dated.

Google at times can be very good, example when a particular thesis is available, and it deals with a particular problem. For example:

With Google I found a critique of Nouthetic counseling, which is interesting:

https://scholars.wlu.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1068&context=etd 

Articles from Google can give some important clarifying info in a nutshell:

https://www.calvary.edu/problem-biblicalchristian-counseling-distinction/ 

Then there are some cool splash pages on a topic that can help widen the conceptual framework:

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-christian-counseling-5211900 

But in the end if you want "tell it like it is" information, nothing like good old explanations:

https://www.logos.com/product/166973/psychobabble-the-failure-of-modern-psychology-and-the-biblical-alternative 

In the end to find a modified alternative to nouthetic in L9 I found:

Excerpt from L9:

"Hermeneutical circulation begins 

(step 1) when counselor and client are drawn into a therapeutic story and "jarred" by the client's experience and its relational meaning. 

Both client and counselor experience the limitations of their understanding (step 2) and turn to conversations with theological sources outside the counseling relationship (step 3). 

These would include conversations with faith traditions, theological principles, biblical stories, behavioral sciences (as common human experience), and others' personal experience. 

These conversations broaden horizons (step 4) and 

present new options that can widen the scope of action in counseling (step 5). 

As seen in the examples below, this can take place through clients' and therapists' conversations with important others outside of therapy, through expansion of the therapy system, or through in-session consultants and reflecting teams.

The strength of liberation motifs lies in 

their reduction of hierarchy in therapy, 

inclusion of the client at all steps of reflection, 

depathologizing stand toward client problems, and 

expectations that transformation will include both client and community. 

Therapeutic use of self and pastoral identity are central in this form of reflection as the therapist brings her or his full humanity to the reflective process. 

This method also has a broader ability than others to manage plurality of experience, culture, thought, theory, and theology as multiple voices are invited to hermeneutical circulation.

 It also encourages therapists to diversify and expand their guiding theories and practices. 

On the other hand, these methods may overestimate clients' ability to engage in the work of praxis. 

Counselor and client together must assess the client's contexts and capabilities and make decisions about how and where to engage hermeneutical circulation and its practical outcome."

 Townsend, L. (2009). Introduction to pastoral counseling. Nashville: Abingdon Press.

Some of the above method supposedly originates from the following resource:

https://www.amazon.com/Theology-New-Key-Responding-Liberation/dp/0664242049

[Maybe FL can manage to get such resource to make it available in L9.

The methodology above has drawbacks, but its multiple positive sub processes make it perfect to tailor procedures IAW each tradition, valued preferences, etc.

Even its liberation approach jibes well with the "deliverance ministry" found in many P & C groups.]

So to me, Google and Logos are complements, using both you can find the positive, negative and the horizons of a topic.

In L9 you can get diagrams that are useful, input from experts in mobile ed, key information on certain methods / techniques, but at the end, you need to make sense of it all with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Note how with media search I get to key concepts quickly...

But Google allowed me to find the info (thesis) that warns about the weaknesses of a particular technique (Nouthetic).

Hope this help illustrate how I use both Google and L9, to clarify concepts.

Page 1 of 2 (39 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS