Purchase Strategy Question

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Posts 32
Carl Thomas | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Apr 27 2022 8:02 AM

I am new to Logos so please forgive the questions.

I currently have the Academic Base Package of Logos and have been buying resources. I am really hesitant to buy the packages because the majority of the resources included are of no value to me.

I would like to try the preaching suite. I think that would be useful. But I don't know about a bunch of the other features. I rarely almost never do original language study. (I have an MDiv. It's not because I don't know how.) And what I do is accomplished in the current interlinear resources I have.

So perhaps I should buy the feature upgrade and then resource packages I want? Or maybe just the preaching suite and some legacy resource packages?

I see the Anchor Bible Dictionary is included in some legacy resource sets. But the IVP Bible Dictionary isn't. They are both pretty close in price. I have a hard copy of one of the books in the IVP set and really like it. I also own the IVP new and old bible background commentaries. So I am a fan.

My question: How often do sets like the IVP Bible Dictionary set go on sale?

The other big purchase I would want is the NIC commentaries. It's a little painful because I have several in hard cover and duplicated in Kindle.

I know these are common questions so thanks for your patience.

Posts 2969
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2022 8:23 AM

Carl Thomas:

I am really hesitant to buy the packages because the majority of the resources included are of no value to me.

Check to see what you would like that is in the package. Then check the full price of the items that you want.

Sometimes the full price of the items that you want is higher then the sale price of the package so the rest are free.

Posts 32
Carl Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2022 8:49 AM

That was really clarifying. This might sound crazy but don't really want any of the resources that come in those packages. There are some aditional bible dictionaries and some commentaries that I would like but none come in those sets.

I want the preaching suite but once I get that, i still don't have some features. If i get the silver feature upgrade I am only $110 from the Silver set. And I really don't want to spend that much money.

The preaching suite Essentials is about $200 after my academic discount. Maybe I will just get that and resources?

Posts 1654
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2022 9:01 AM

Just opining.

Seems (1) your investing is all over the map. Kindle commentary?? And (2) you're $$ constrained (maybe other needs).

So, developing a strategy in Logos is critical. You can easily waste a lot of time and money, with Logos sales.

If indeed, you want what you want, then the key strategy is patience. I only buy what I want. Rarely big packages; mostly subject packages, heavily discounted. I have maybe 4,500 books .. average price, about $7, and what I want.

Just listening to you, the IVP set is better than the Anchor (for you). I have both. IVP tends to concentrate on the time period of each volume. That's really helpful. Anchor is far deeper, but is deep-deep what you want? Both get discounted ... hard to predict, but pretty normal.

And the languages? That's like loving Japan, but avoiding Japanese. In Logos, you'll inevitably learn the languages.

Posts 32
Carl Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2022 10:03 AM

DMB:

Just opining...

I bought books on Kindle before I started using Logos so I could do sermon prep in my home office without dragging around the whole library.

Finally gonna use Logos for reference material but either print or kindle for monographs.

As far as original languages. I guess its a matter of philosophy. I think most preachers would be better served getting a better grasp of the English language and logic since I hear so many nonsensical sermons. I learned enough to get through seminary but its not for me. I will occasionally share words when they are pointed out in the commentaries or when I want to explain a concept that has different translations in different bibles but I am a big picture guy.

Think i will just get the sermon suite and start buying resources. Well, that or the silver feature upgrade. But the silver feature upgrade is only $120 short of the full silver upgrade. lol

Posts 84
Dale E Heath II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2022 10:41 AM

Carl Thomas:

But the silver feature upgrade is only $120 short of the full silver upgrade. lol

You'll find that a lot, especially with Base Packages, Feature Upgrades, and Legacy Libraries. DMB says to have patience, which is very key. Don't get in a hurry to acquire resources, sales happen every month. Hot buys are mostly near the end of the month and for a short time frame. Pick up the free books and associated sale books at the first of the month. Wish Lists are your friend. Build yourself several wish lists and check them once in awhile and during sales. It may indicate a savings %. The price of a resource may be different than what shows in your wish list due to dynamic pricing, so you may have to click on it to see what the real cost is.

While you're checking out a resource listing, be sure to scroll down to "This title is included in the following collections You can save when you purchase this product as part of a collection." You can sometimes find a way to buy it cheaper or get more for your money. Look for prices in red, those are on sale.

This Forum will sometimes have some good bargains and tips in it. It's also your friend.

Posts 956
Michael Kinch | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2022 8:56 PM

Carl there has been some good advice in this thread.  I have purchased a number of packages and collections over the years and have often found something in my library that is very helpful but which I would not have purchased individually. Likely it came as an "extra" in a package at some point. At least for me my needs change from time to time and something that I may have no interest in today, may be very helpful six months from now.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2022 10:48 PM

Carl Thomas:
As far as original languages. I guess its a matter of philosophy. I think most preachers would be better served getting a better grasp of the English language and logic since I hear so many nonsensical sermons. I learned enough to get through seminary but its not for me. I will occasionally share words when they are pointed out in the commentaries or when I want to explain a concept that has different translations in different bibles but I am a big picture guy.

Big picture observation is English verbal system having a primary focus of time while Hebrew & Aramaic verbal system has a primary focus on kind of action. Koine Greek verbs have primary kind of action focus with secondary time of action. My favorite Logos & Verbum desktop feature is visual filter highlighting, which enables original language verbal range to be seen in English (using Reverse Interlinear tagging):

Logos Wiki Extended Tips for Highlighting and Visual Filters includes:

Keep Smiling Smile

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2022 11:18 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Big picture observation is English verbal system having a primary focus of time while Hebrew & Aramaic verbal system has a primary focus on kind of action. Koine Greek verbs have primary kind of action focus with secondary time of action.

Just curious as to where you learned this. I don't know Semitic languages but the Greek/English contrast caught my attention. 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 27 2022 11:20 PM

Carl Thomas:
I think most preachers would be better served getting a better grasp of the English language and logic since I hear so many nonsensical sermons.

A man after my own heart ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 6010
Simon’s Brother | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2022 12:43 AM

MJ. Smith:
Just curious as to where you learned this. I don't know Semitic languages but the Greek/English contrast caught my 

English verbs focus on time. Greek verbs focus on aspect - the author's portrayal of an action, time is only a small part of what they convey and modern Greek grammars will tend towards arguing only in the indicative mood is any aspect of time communicated, but only as a secondary element behind aspect.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2022 1:06 AM

Thanks - that provided enough info to find the appropriate linguistic articles.  This seems to be highly debated.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2022 6:15 AM

MJ. Smith:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Big picture observation is English verbal system having a primary focus of time while Hebrew & Aramaic verbal system has a primary focus on kind of action. Koine Greek verbs have primary kind of action focus with secondary time of action.

Just curious as to where you learned this. I don't know Semitic languages but the Greek/English contrast caught my attention. 

My learning about Hebrew verbal system included contrast with English, especially Imperfect:

An Exegetical Insight

In Exodus 3:14 Moses asks God to tell him what to say to the people when they ask who sent Moses to them. God tells Moses, “This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘[אֶהְיֶה] has sent me to you.’ ” The three-consonant root היה (meaning “to be”) has an א in front of it, indicating that it is a 1cs Imperfect verb, so the subject of the verb is “I.” But how should we translate the verbal idea? “I will be”? “I am”? “I have been”? The answer is yes, yes, and yes. Because the basic sense of the verb is “to exist,” and God has always existed and always will exist, the Imperfect verb includes all of these senses. Indeed, elsewhere God describes himself as “the Alpha and Omega … who is, and who was, and who is to come” (Revelation 1:8).

In English, however, our verbal system operates on the basis of time, unlike the Hebrew verbal system, which operates on the basis of whether or not the action is regarded as completed. So how can we translate this Hebrew verb that indicates continuing existence unrestricted by time into the English language, where action is expressed in terms of the time in which it occurs? Well, we do the best we can. Most English translations opt for the present tense and render the designation God gives himself as “I am.” Recognizing the significance of the Hebrew Imperfect conjugation, however, gives the reader the advantage of seeing that God is describing himself not just as being present then, but rather as being continually present. The omnipresence of God is an essential foundation of a believer’s confidence. And it provides a greater depth of understanding for the “I am” in the words of the Son of God at the end of Matthew’s gospel (28:20): “And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 Michael Williams, The Biblical Hebrew Companion for Bible Software Users: Grammatical Terms Explained for Exegesis (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2015), 53.

MJ. Smith:

DIsciple II:
English verbs focus on time. Greek verbs focus on aspect - the author's portrayal of an action, time is only a small part of what they convey and modern Greek grammars will tend towards arguing only in the indicative mood is any aspect of time communicated, but only as a secondary element behind aspect.

Thanks - that provided enough info to find the appropriate linguistic articles.  This seems to be highly debated.

Learning about Greek grammar time debate in VERB section:

What It Does

Verbs are words that describe an action or a state of being. Greek verbs are inflected with reference to five features: tense, voice, mood, person, and number:

1. Tense can indicate two things: (1) time of action and (2) aspect, or kind of action. Aspect is primary. Only in the INDICATIVE mood does tense indicate time. *

* Some grammarians reject the idea that tense has anything to do with time in any mood. See S. E. Porter, Verbal Aspect in the Greek of the New Testament, with Reference to Tense and Mood, 3rd ed., Studies in Biblical Greek (New York: Peter Lang, 1989), as well as the helpful summary and bibliography in C. R. Campbell, Advances in the Study of Greek: New Insights for Reading the New Testament (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2015), 105–33. For the view espoused here, see B. M. Fanning, Verbal Aspect in New Testament Greek (Oxford: Clarendon, 1991) and Wallace, Grammar, 504–12.

 Mark L. Strauss, The Biblical Greek Companion for Bible Software Users: Grammatical Terms Explained for Exegesis (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2016), 96.

My personal hypothesis is translation of Hebrew into Greek Septuagint is the basis for idea that Greek tense has anything to do with time in any mood (as Hebrew verbs only express aspect).

Big picture perspective is appreciating Hebrew verbal expression, which includes New Testament quotations and manner of expression.

The Lexham English Bible italicizes words added for smooth English:

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, because theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are the ones who mourn, because they will be comforted.

Blessed are the meek, because they will inherit the earth.

Blessed are the ones who hunger and thirst for righteousness, because they will be satisfied. 

Blessed are the merciful, because they will be shown mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart, because they will see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers, because they will be called sons of God.

Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, because theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things against you, lying on account of me. Rejoice and be glad, because your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets before you.

 W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), Mt 5:3–12.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1654
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2022 6:27 AM

Yep. Being aware that a specific language has limitations or tendencies, especially as you work your way back in time, is an instant clue that a modern argument is failed on delivery.

I'm not in the preacher business, but I'd hate to limit myself to English translations.  As I understand it, earlier pastors knew their greek, not just the NT koine.

Posts 737
Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2022 8:46 AM

I have stopped buying features at Bronze, but added the Preaching Suite features, the English word study and workflows in Bible Engagement Bronze, and the Catholic Topical Index from Verbum. I think you can just "buy" the free version of Verbum to get the feature added to your Logos library. I also have the sytopicons in the Britannica Great Books set.

I buy mostly legacy libraries, as I think they work better on Bronze and under. I do like having extra books that I don't yet have a use for. It does slow down the updating and indexing of my library though, so I think I must buy more selectively now.

When I want some Logos 9 libraries and not more features, I sign up for a free trial of a subscription and that gives me the option to purchase just the library.

Sometimes less is more. Think about what you believe about theology in general and apply that to purchasing in Logos. What do you believe about work, hoarding, and trust?

Posts 1486
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 28 2022 10:54 AM

I used to be pretty indiscriminate in buying the tier sales. But, as of version 9, I picked up the strategy of sticking to the Starter tier outside of Verbum and Logos Orthodox and as high as I needed to go with those two. However, I still browse the other denomination tiers during sales as sometimes I can pick up a tier with something I want for ≤ the price of the individual product I want.

Of course, with over 9000 resources acquired that way, I wish there was denominational tagging for the searches.

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