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Posts 467
PJ | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, May 9 2022 12:44 AM

I'm considering buying a MacBook Pro M1 16" 16GB 1T. I know nothing about Mac and the OS except what I research and see on the net.

I consider myself an above-normal user of Win and Logos. Besides Logos, daily voiceovers, and occasional 1-hour recordings I render some videos from time to time approximately 30 minutes in length, and program in any language I need to accomplish what I need. But I'm bound to a power source with little portability. Upgrading to a system that can last about 10 years with care and with good battery life and overall performance is what I'm looking for.

I know the MacBook can outperform my old Gaming Laptop - not for gaming but for real-life work (I do not game and do not have the desire to). My MSi is quick in Logos but only on the dedicated GPU when plugged in and for 1 1/2 to 2 hours max on battery and Integrated Graphics. I also know that the MacBook can overall outperform the same priced Gaming Laptops regarding stable performance and battery life. I know that Gaming Laptops outperform everything when plugged in, but that's it! No stable performance on battery. Windows also are very slow in reconnecting Bluetooth and USB devices after sleep or hibernate modes and even after a fresh start. I tested a Mac OS, in a Virtual Machine on my current laptop, yesterday and found that the network speed is 1-2Mbps faster. This is mind-blowing software performance. This almost convinced me to plunge into the Mac world. I love how easy apps install on a Mac, why didn't windows think of that? Mac Os has great file organization from what I researched while windows are flexible to the point of confusion if you don't take care.

My greatest concern is real-life performance.

  1. How long does your MacBook last on the battery while working in Logos?
  2. Do you ever need to reinstall the OS or partition drives?
  3. How easily would a Win user adjust to the Mac OS?
  4. What are the free automation options on a Mac OS?
  5. How long does the hardware last? I know MacBook Pro M1 16" 16GB 1T is not upgradable, would this be a good choice? (I have a 512GB SSD with 2TB HDD and 16GB RAM in the MSi with a lot of external options).
  6. How do external devices like HDD, USB Mic's, and Soundcards work? I'll need some powered USB options.
  7. What are the questions I rather need to consider to make such a huge change?

Benchmarks don't convince me because I know about some flaws in benchmarks regarding to real-life work and performance. I need a human being I can trust and know those people are in this forum.

What would you're valuable advice be to convince me?

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 1:45 AM

PJ:
How long does your MacBook last on the battery while working in Logos?

I can work away using Logos for a full day. If using Proclaim and Zoom to stream then the battery life can drop to four hours or so.

PJ:
Do you ever need to reinstall the OS or partition drives?

Mac users usually upgrade to new versions straight away. Other than the OS upgrades I have never reinstalled the OS. I am not old enough to remember why one would partition a drive.

PJ:
How easily would a Win user adjust to the Mac OS?

Muscle memory is the problem - once you get used to the fact that things like 'quick view' and 'spotlight search' are the powerful tools you will be fine.

PJ:
What are the free automation options on a Mac OS?

Don't understand the question.

PJ:
How long does the hardware last? I know MacBook Pro M1 16" 16GB 1T is not upgradable, would this be a good choice? (I have a 512GB SSD with 2TB HDD and 16GB RAM in the MSi with a lot of external options).

Check out the sales on the likes of Ebay and the price old systems are going for. I upgrade quite often to the latest versions. But my wife uses my old machine my mother gets the machine that my wife passes on and then one of the family tends to find a use for the my mothers spare machine. You can expect to get good service for at least five years, a fine service for about 10 years and even then machines are far from finished.

PJ:
How do external devices like HDD, USB Mic's, and Soundcards work? I'll need some powered USB options.

If you really want these option then you may need a USB hub. But external hard drives are pretty redundant now I have a Blue Yeti pugged not my machine and have pressed into service an old ipbone 6 to use as a camera.

PJ:
What are the questions I rather need to consider to make such a huge change?

Why have I left it so long?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 467
PJ | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 3:12 AM

Mike Binks:

PJ:
How long does your MacBook last on the battery while working in Logos?

I can work away using Logos for a full day. If using Proclaim and Zoom to stream then the battery life can drop to four hours or so.

This battery life for Logos is enough to almost convert me.

Mike Binks:

PJ:
What are the free automation options on a Mac OS?

Don't understand the question.

Open Source and OS Macro Systems and capabilities. My mind will become frustrated if there is no possibility to create macros to complete tasks faster. Windows users normally proclaim that Mac is locked down, but I think they don't know because they don't have a Mac. I saw something on the net they call "Automator". It seems to be easy enough for a newbie on Mac to make the transition easier and acceptable. I've written a system workflow in windows that automate documents from printing in Logos straight through to recording and publishing phases according to my own preferences.

I know python, java, and several other languages but don't know what is preferred in the Mac environment and what works really well. I really have no experience in the Mac world.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 4:59 AM

PJ:
Upgrading to a system that can last about 10 years with care and with good battery life and overall performance is what I'm looking for.

There is no laptop which can do this. Batteries are consumables. 

PJ:
What would you're valuable advice be to convince me?

I have a mini van which I have owned for 10 years. We recently purchased a new one, but had no intentions of doing so. I say this because I know that people value different things. Here is my 2¢ about computers: 

  • The longest someone should expect a computer to last is about 5 years.
  • Depending upon usage needs, this may be less for laptops unless one replaces the battery. 
  • Technology changes rapidly as does the cost of new technologies. As an example, a computer which costs $10,000 today may only be $2,000 in 5 years.
  • With these things in mind, you should buy at the "Sweet spot" for you. As an example, don't buy a $2,000 computer for 10 years. Buy a $1300 computer for 5. 

I love Macs / Apple and am glad to be a snob in some peoples eyes. I love how interconnected my machines are. I love not having the windows problems that I always had on my personal and work computers before I switched. However, I never push people into buying a Mac (or iPhone). 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 30680
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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 5:03 AM

PJ:
Windows users normally proclaim that Mac is locked down, but I think they don't know because they don't have a Mac.

iOS and iPadOS are "locked down." Mac is not (although some Apple employees have bemoaned that it wasn't more locked down... and that it likely won't ever be). 

PJ:
I saw something on the net they call "Automator"

This is built in by Apple. I do not use it much, but here is a link: https://support.apple.com/guide/automator/welcome/mac 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 1457
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 5:56 AM

I just switched over from Windows (all the way back to pre-Windows), to a MBP.

I think the biggest problem is just finding a 'translation' book (Windows user > Mac user). Many on the web claim.

There's several functions, Windows is good at; some the Mac is nice at. One thing I did was get a macOS terminal book, and administrator's book.  Both get you down into the nitty-gritty pretty quickly.

Alabama says 5 years, and as a practical rule, I'd agree.  A standard laptop, etc.

But my Windows laptop is about 12 years old, has been running a super-Logos-layout (150 resources) that long (reason for its purchase). I rarely turn it off (instead sleep, sleep, sleep for months at a time).  Battery wise, it's still well beyond my use of Logos, but I had purchased an add-on battery, for camping, that sits flat underneath the laptop; the two have been happy ever since.  I don't think Mac has that same capability.

Actually my biggest frustration isn't the Windows > Mac change.  It's the iPad > Mac adjustment.  Not an expert, but Mac seems to pulling a lot of old legacy stuff.  I'm looking forward to more M1 integration.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 5:59 AM

JT (alabama24):
The longest someone should expect a computer to last is about 5 years.

The minister I gave my white plastic MacBook to tells me his son is still using it for bits of word-processing. (The Battery is shot though it has to be plugged in all the time).

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 5978
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 6:02 AM

DMB:
I had purchased an add-on battery, for camping, that sits flat underneath the laptop; the two have been happy ever since.  I don't think Mac has that same capability.

These days dedicated 'add on' batteries can be found in the British Museum technology section. Universal power packs do the same job for all your devices. Including ones Apple Kit,

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 1457
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 6:07 AM

Mike Binks:

These days dedicated 'add on' batteries can be found in the British Museum technology section. Universal power packs do the same job for all your devices. Including ones Apple Kit,

This one was built into the laptop itself, so not even obvious. And the system optimized the two.  I had assumed I'd get reduced charge after so many recyclings, but not yet.  I do wonder though at fire-potential ... ha!   We just installed a portable solar generator for emergencies and ditto.

Posts 467
PJ | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 7:18 AM

JT (alabama24):
This is built in by Apple. I do not use it much, but here is a link: https://support.apple.com/guide/automator/welcome/mac 

This is excellent! Thank you.

Posts 467
PJ | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 7:44 AM

Mike Binks:
(The Battery is shot though it has to be plugged in all the time).

Can a battery be easily replaced if needed? Does it plug into the board or is it soldered? Opening up some laptops you need to take out the complete motherboard to get to the battery.

I suppose the new M1 chip does have a great future and will give a longer lifespan to a laptop in terms of software capabilities and compatibility, stretching the "normal" lifespan well beyond 5-6 years. But, what I believe is shaped by my behavior and not always considered "normal" and realistic.

I think we almost reached a point where our senses won't notice a difference in the advancement of some current technology. We also get older and can't perceive technology for the value and benefits that it's supposed to provide. It's becoming a mind game.

Posts 5978
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 9:10 AM

PJ:
Can a battery be easily replaced if needed?

This question is akin to 'can a rung on my stepladder be easily replaced if needed'?

The answer is no; but the question is moot because nobody has ever needed to replace a rung on a stepladder before the rest of the stepladder was so dilapidated that the exercise would be pointless.

If you need to replace the battery, which few seem to need too, the cause would have to be a manufacturing fault and that would come under the warranty. Modern batteries are far more resilient that anyone expected.

So, while this may have been a real concern had my Father owned a computer in his youth, it really is an illusory concern with today's kit.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 467
PJ | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 9:39 AM

Mike Binks:
So, while this may have been a real concern had my Father owned a computer in his youth, it really is an illusory concern with today's kit.

This is where most windows laptops will fail in a 3-5 years lifetime. I'm happy to hear that quality and battery are at the same level.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 1:31 PM

I have a 2011 MBP still running great except the batter life is not very long. You can send them in for battery replacement. I use it mostly plugged in anyway and just bought a MBP M1.

Posts 19599
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 9 2022 8:39 PM

PJ:
Can a battery be easily replaced if needed?

Depends on the Mac model. My mid 2013 MacBook Air has screws on the bottom, which allows the case to be opened.

I Fit It has Mac repair guides => https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Mac

Newer Mac models have fewer user replaceable items.

PJ:
Do you ever need to reinstall the OS or partition drives?

My 2019 iMac has 1 TB internal SSD partitioned into three, which allows me to boot macOS Monterey 12.3.1 OR macOS 10.14 Mojave (last macOS that can run older 32-bit applications). Earlier reply => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/190637/1099593.aspx#1099593 (macOS Catalina has been upgraded to macOS Monterey)

Newer macOS has volume management where all free space is shared by all volumes (instead of each partition having dedicated free space).

PJ:
How do external devices like HDD, USB Mic's, and Soundcards work?

Mid 2013 MacBook Air and 2019 iMac 5K have built-in microphones and speakers.

For Time Machine backups, my 2019 iMac 5K has USB attached 1 TB SSD (automatic every hour)  while my mid 2013 MacBook Air has USB HDD (manual backup once in awhile). My 2019 iMac 5K has 64 GB Ram, which has 44 GB used by my open applications along with my Logos installation having all my resources downloaded. In contrast, my mid 2013 MBA has 8 GB Ram with 250 GB SSD so most of my Logos resources are in the cloud (29 GB downloaded & 90 GB in the cloud).

For Apple shopping, Apple Insider web site has discounts and price guides.

For entry level Mac configurations, Costco has some discounting for new models.

Apple offers Refurbished Mac models => https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac (newer Apple Silicon has 10 % discount when available while older models have 15 % discount)

Disappointed by Apple not making a laptop with touch screen: iOS apps can be used on Apple Silicon, but touching the screen does nothing.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 631
Gregory Lawhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 10 2022 5:16 AM

PJ:
How long does your MacBook last on the battery while working in Logos?

Many hours; I've never tracked them, though. Most of the time I'm connected to an external monitor in my office rather than being on battery power. I use my MacBook Pro 16" M1 to run Proclaim and live-stream two church services, though, and I always have power to spare at the end. 

PJ:
How easily would a Win user adjust to the Mac OS?

Your mileage will vary. You can certainly expect a learning curve, but how much is unknowable. 

PJ:

What are the free automation options on a Mac OS?

Forget free options. Take a look at Keyboard Maestro. I use it in combination with a Stream Deck device to control all sorts of things. 

PJ:
How do external devices like HDD, USB Mic's, and Soundcards work? I'll need some powered USB options.

Well, to begin with, you don't need a sound card. Macs have fantastic audio built-in. They also have drivers built-in. I haven't needed to download a driver for anything (Yeti Blue Mic, JBL Bluetooth speaker, printers) since I don't know how long. Some devices require downloadable software to properly function (the Stream Deck, for instance). But you won't have to become a computer expert to figure out what drivers to download. Hard drives are generally plug and play, but Macs use their own formatting protocol, and you would use Disc Utility to format them.

Posts 84
David Betts | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 10 2022 6:45 AM

Since you wrote "all Mac Users" I will reply with a "hybrid" answer. [Windows on Mac]. I bought a 2015 13" MBP (still going good, all day battery) when Mac changed to Intel chips allowing Windows to run in a virtual machine - e.g., VMWare Fusion. I was asked, "Why would you want to run Win on Mac?" Because of familiarity, and being a slow learner.

It was the best and worst of both worlds. For years I used Windows Logos, as I wasn't yet satisfied with Mac Logos, or my learning curve on Mac. But parity finally caught up. I could [Alt-Tab] switch back and forth Mac <=> Windows, so I gradually learned, and adapted to MacOS. Since 24" M1 iMac came out recently, I now use it full time without Windows - the transition took time, but there’s no looking back - I’m weened off of MS PC. The old MBP is reserved for when I travel, or when I need to do something in Windows. What is very nice is ability to connect MBP to iMac via BlueTooth / no wires to transfer files, etc. It took time to learn Mac apps like Pages, Numbers, Keynote as I was prejudiced against them, but now “all is well” without MSWord, Excel, and Powerpoint, etc.

I’ve never had to un/re-install OS, or partition drives. You do need to have external drives for backup / TimeMachine. On Windows a crash can be disastrous or fatal, with loss of files. If power outage shuts down the Mac, a restart simply starts where it left off. Mail that is being written is saved in drafts, not lost or corrupted as in Win. I do shutdown and unplug during lightning thunder storms!

Learning Mac takes time, but can be done [as this 74yr old can tell you]. If needed, have a cheat sheet for commands, keyboard shortcuts, etc.

Upgradability is no big deal. Just get the “biggest” you can afford. If you run out of disk space, just offload to external. I think the M1 will be fine, I’m happy with it. As far as “being slow” — compared to what? Think of letters on the page as The Word; the “space” between as The Spirit - even with computer one still needs both Word and Spirit to understand the text. And, let's remember that those in favor of Passover Lamb Yeshua being murdered during Unleavened Bread knew the “original language,” so even that is not the “ultimate goal,” but to know Him, and the Power of His Resurrection! Indeed He arose 3 days and 3 nights later at First Fruits as 1) First from dead 2) First among many brethren. “Today, if you hear His Voice"… not just: “Today if you read the text super-fast in the original.”  Modern focus on ‘easter’ obliterates the Pattern - see that you build all according to the Pattern shown on the Mount. What was shown? Tabernacle, Priesthood, sacrifices, etc according to the Book of the Law. [Compate The Book of The Covenant].

Questions?
Do you want / need to run Windows, if only for a while until you learn Mac? Then look into Parallels [etc], and Windows Insider for M1 version of Windows

Put your hand to the plow, and don't look back.

Shalom

    David  [Jude 3-4; Acts 20:20, 27]

Posts 467
PJ | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 10 2022 11:30 AM

David Betts:
Think of letters on the page as The Word; the “space” between as The Spirit - even with computer one still needs both Word and Spirit to understand the text. And, let's remember that those in favor of Passover Lamb Yeshua being murdered during Unleavened Bread knew the “original language,” so even that is not the “ultimate goal,” but to know Him, and the Power of His Resurrection!

I appreciate your wisdom and focus on what really matters.

Posts 19599
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 10 2022 12:05 PM

David Betts:
Do you want / need to run Windows, if only for a while until you learn Mac? Then look into Parallels [etc], and Windows Insider for M1 version of Windows

An alternative is using Remote Desktop application on macOS to remotely control a Windows computer (with clipboard integration so can copy from a Windows application for pasting into a macOS application).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 5978
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 11 2022 12:27 AM

PJ:
I appreciate your wisdom and focus on what really matters.

What actually matters, as far as moving to a Mac is concerned, is that the free and included

  • Word-processor named Pages will open (and save) .docx etc files.
  • Spread sheet named Numbers will open (and save) whatever Excel files are designated.
  • Presentation program named Keynote will open whatever Powerpoint files are designated.

There is little need to actually run Windows or its programmes.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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