GaoLu:Analogies break down, but to be married there is typically attraction, relationship, ceremony, family, etc. None of those alone "cause" marriage. They are marriage. Salvation, in some ways, may be similar.
Yes, analogies really break down, because that one is culturally dependent.
For God and For Neighbor
How about extracting the minimum set of beliefs needed for salvation from the thief on the cross next to Jesus? He definitely didn't have baptism by water. He did no good works after conversion. He simply believed that Jesus is God and repented of his sins.
1Cor10:31: How about extracting the minimum set of beliefs needed for salvation from the thief on the cross next to Jesus? He definitely didn't have baptism by water. He did no good works after conversion. He simply believed that Jesus is God and repented of his sins.
I think you are implicitly making several things here that I personally regard as potential pitfalls for people researching the question. This may or may not lead to wrong conclusions, but it merits at least to discuss some of those more explicitly.
Don't get me wrong - there certainly is a theological case to be made that one doesn't have to do anything except to believe a "minimum set" of things or rather to put our trust in Jesus, which is what the thief did. I just think that this case can't be made as a normative answer that relates to everybody in general, based on this special narrative alone.
Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10
I originally posted something here... but after thinking about it.... I felt it was too much like a debate and tried to delete it... and couldn't... so I just changed it.
If you read it.... I apologize and will be more careful about it in the future.
Thanks.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Puddin’: John 3.3–5 as obeyed in Acts 2.38 is the biblical plan of salvation—including the oral invocation of the name of Jesus Christ (contra the mere “authority of Christ” argument). At the risk of appearing self-promoting I attempt to exegetically address the usual objections to this position in the blog link below (e.g., the causal vs. the purpose argument regarding “eis” in Acts 2.38). https://apostolicacademics.com/
John 3.3–5 as obeyed in Acts 2.38 is the biblical plan of salvation—including the oral invocation of the name of Jesus Christ (contra the mere “authority of Christ” argument).
At the risk of appearing self-promoting I attempt to exegetically address the usual objections to this position in the blog link below (e.g., the causal vs. the purpose argument regarding “eis” in Acts 2.38).
https://apostolicacademics.com/
Read your article on the net...."https://apostolicacademics.com/" Good article... thanks for sharing.
xnman:But maybe I have missed it.... which could happen
Most of your post is off-topic and theological in nature. Please keep on topic and non-confrontational. Many of us want to be able to ask theological questions for information. If they go to far off topic or become confrontational, they get shut down. Post this was a response to has been rewritten.
Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."
MJ. Smith: xnman:But maybe I have missed it.... which could happen Most of your post is off-topic and theological in nature. Please keep on topic and non-confrontational. Many of us want to be able to ask theological questions for information. If they go to far off topic or become confrontational, they get shut down.
Most of your post is off-topic and theological in nature. Please keep on topic and non-confrontational. Many of us want to be able to ask theological questions for information. If they go to far off topic or become confrontational, they get shut down.
I figured you caught me.... if you will look back... I did try to delete the post.... and couldn't so I just changed it because I thought it was too confrontational .... My apologies.
Thanks - I know it can be hard to not respond. I also have to go back and delete posts.
xnman: I originally posted something here... but after thinking about it.... I felt it was too much like a debate and tried to delete it... and couldn't... so I just changed it. If you read it.... I apologize and will be more careful about it in the future. Thanks.
The only advise I can give you, from experience, is that you need to exercise self-control. You will never convert anybody here in the forms because this is not the place to evangelize. I used to be like you with a sword in my hand all the time Trying to contend for the faith once for all delivered onto the Saints, but then I realize I was not contending for the faith, I was just being contentious and that doesn’t help any cause (MJ and others can confirm what I’m telling you). I also realize that attacking people is not the way to get people to listen, so I had to do away with some bad habits. I was the first one to bring up catholics and call out others for not calling themselves Christians only. It’s a bad habit that is more common in the churches of Christ than you might think. I’m not saying give up your convictions or become pluralistic or ecumenical in thinking, but there’s a place and a time for everything; and the forums are not that place. The forums are to ask questions about the software and maybe to ask about some theological points of view for research purposes, but without attacking each other or debating about who’s right or who’s wrong.
Remember, when you feel tempted to just go at it and set people straight, just take a deep breath and exercise self control 👍😁👌 You’ll feel better and won’t get frustrated as much 😉
3 John 2,
DAL
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump.
I said, ‘Don’t do it!’ He said, ‘Nobody loves me.I said, ‘God loves you. Do you believe in God?’ He said, ‘Yes.’
I said, ‘Are you a Christian or a Jew?’ He said, ‘A Christian.’I said, ‘Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?’ He said, ‘Protestant.’I said, ‘Me, too! What franchise?’ He said, ‘Baptist.’I said, ‘Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?’ He said, ‘Northern Baptist.’I said, ‘Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?’ He said, ‘Northern Conservative Baptist.’I said, ‘Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?’ He said, ‘Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.’
I said, ‘Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?’ He said, ‘Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.’
I said, ‘Die, heretic!’ And I pushed him over.
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)
Excellent and instructive, Mike.
It's a well-established conspiracy theory that nothing good came out of the year 1912, not even for the Northern Conservative Great Lakes Region Councils, which was roundly criticized for thinking itself superior to the others Great Lakes Councils.
DAL:4. Catholic
If you have https://ref.ly/logosres/bblclcthlcslvtn?ref=Page.p+1, I recommend taking a look.
Please use descriptive thread titles to attract helpful posts & save others time. Thanks!
DAL:(MJ and others can confirm what I’m telling you). ... I was the first one to bring up catholics
I'll confirm there was a period when DAL was a pain but like nearly everyone who brings up catholics what he showed was his ignorance. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and usually boomerangs. DAL has become an important part of the forum community - speaking on what he actually knows.
DAL:call out others for not calling themselves Christians only
Just remember that people are stuck with what society outside the church calls them - Roman Catholic is not a term members of the Church would chose for themselves - it is a term imposed on us by outsiders and, therefore, what we use to communicate clearly. I knew briefly an elderly Armenian who referred to herself as simply "Christian" ... she found it humorous that in America she was always asked whether she was of the Orthodox or Catholic branch. Such a question would be absurd in Armenia.
Just remember that people are stuck with what society outside the church calls them - Roman Catholic is not a term members of the Church would chose for themselves - it is a term imposed on us by outsiders and, therefore, what we use to communicate clearly. I knew briefly an elderly Armenian who referred to herself as simply "Christian" ... she found it humorous that in America she was always asked whether she was of the Orthodox or Catholic branch. Such a question would be absurd in Armenia. [Note they are part of the group that formed to create the Oriental Orthodox Churches in the 1950's.]
DAL:(MJ and others can confirm what I’m telling you).
Yup. I quite like "DAL 2.0" though!
DAL:Remember, when you feel tempted to just go at it and set people straight, just take a deep breath and exercise self control 👍😁👌 You’ll feel better and won’t get frustrated as much 😉
I can testify to that myself too.
SineNomine: DAL:4. Catholic If you have https://ref.ly/logosres/bblclcthlcslvtn?ref=Page.p+1, I recommend taking a look.
Yes, I have it. I’ll look at it 👍
I come from a Baptist background so label my answer as you see fit. I would answer the question this way:
We are saved only through genuine faith in Christ Jesus (Galatians), that faith being of a type which always results in good works and fruit (James).
I read through this thread.... and to be truthful, don't you find it confusing as I do?
I mean, in kindness, ... that we each "spout" our individual way to be saved and there seems to be several different ways.... and don't get me wrong... I respect each way... not trying to change anyone or anything....
But if I was an outsider... (non Jesus believing, non Christian, non Catholic.. etc) I wonder what I would think about all these different teachings that has been brought up so far?
Just wondering....
xnman: I read through this thread.... and to be truthful, don't you find it confusing as I do? I mean, in kindness, ... that we each "spout" our individual way to be saved and there seems to be several different ways.... and don't get me wrong... I respect each way... not trying to change anyone or anything.... But if I was an outsider... (non Jesus believing, non Christian, non Catholic.. etc) I wonder what I would think about all these different teachings that has been brought up so far? Just wondering....
It is not confusing one bit to see wide variation in beliefs.
God is the author of all truths (including scientific, moral,...). Since only God has infinite knowledge, only God has it right. Every one will eventually find out in Heaven that some aspects of their beliefs they held so dearly were wrong. Thus, when people describe their beliefs here, you should expect to get a wide variation in beliefs. If everyone agreed, then it is probably not true!
DAL: I’m not interested in who’s right, just on what you would tell me if I visited your church
Jesus (John 3) = experience 2nd birth or "believes in me"
Peter (Acts 2) - call on the name of the Lord {Does the "calling" precede or follow regeneration? Does "calling" involve 5 "steps"?}
John (John 3:16) = whoever believes
Paul (Rom 10:17) = hearing..the word of Christ.
(Matthew 16 & 18) = what is bound/loosed (by Church? By Peter [and successors?]? by Apostles? By believers?)
(1 Peter 1) = born again [sovereign act of Father/Christ] v.3; [mediated by Word of God] v.23.
faith
(Water) Baptism (part of "faith"? Following "faith"?
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.