Still Surprised Logos Has So Much Trouble with 'Bibles'

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Posts 1435
DMB | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jun 9 2022 8:13 AM

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.  But realistically sarcastic ... they started out doing 'Bibles'.  I'd think they'd be pretty familiar with Bibles.

I stayed on Logos7 for years, and recently 'upgraded' to Logos9.  And I'm unimpressed ... 4 years later and still?

- They still can't put Bible books in order (commentaries, etc).  That truly amazes me. Then, in filters, they sort by frequency.  (Granted, Jesus and Qumran mainly used Isaiah, Psalms, and Deuteronomy ... maybe pre-Logos).

- They still can't get panels to line up by verse, when panels are linked.  Yes, big panels line up.  Small ones don't.  This goes back to Logos4.

- On smaller panels and Text Comparison, if you specify a verse near one you're already at, it won't go to it. You have to 'bounce' it out, and then come back.  Also Logos4.

- If you click a Bible cross-ref, and the resource isn't loaded, it loads and then doesn't go to the reference. That's a more recent curiousness.

And today's 'not again' (which previously Logos staff thought made perfect sense).  You right-click an OL word, select lemma, and then ask for a same-resource search.  It happily complies, but the wrong part of the Bible.  And then surprise ... it just can't seem to find it. Where oh where can it be?

Posts 32
JBR | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2022 8:26 AM

DMB:

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.  But realistically sarcastic ... they started out doing 'Bibles'.  I'd think they'd be pretty familiar with Bibles.

I stayed on Logos7 for years, and recently 'upgraded' to Logos9.  And I'm unimpressed ... 4 years later and still?

- They still can't put Bible books in order (commentaries, etc).  That truly amazes me. Then, in filters, they sort by frequency.  (Granted, Jesus and Qumran mainly used Isaiah, Psalms, and Deuteronomy ... maybe pre-Logos).

- They still can't get panels to line up by verse, when panels are linked.  Yes, big panels line up.  Small ones don't.  This goes back to Logos4.

- On smaller panels and Text Comparison, if you specify a verse near one you're already at, it won't go to it. You have to 'bounce' it out, and then come back.  Also Logos4.

- If you click a Bible cross-ref, and the resource isn't loaded, it loads and then doesn't go to the reference. That's a more recent curiousness.

And today's 'not again' (which previously Logos staff thought made perfect sense).  You right-click an OL word, select lemma, and then ask for a same-resource search.  It happily complies, but the wrong part of the Bible.  And then surprise ... it just can't seem to find it. Where oh where can it be?

Sounds like some of these are bugs. Others may be suggestions. Suggest entering the bugs in one per post with BUG in the heading. Suggest putting the suggestions in a feedbear post and then posting a link here to drum up support.

For God and For Neighbor

Posts 2729
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2022 8:35 AM

DMB:
They still can't put Bible books in order

Which order? TNK or English? Which Canon?

I agree that I should like to sort in the order of my choice, but admit that my choice should not be the default for other users.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 742
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2022 8:47 AM

And then where do you put the OT Apocrypha when they are included, separately or interspersed?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2022 9:12 AM

DMB:
- They still can't put Bible books in order (commentaries, etc).  That truly amazes me. Then, in filters, they sort by frequency.  (Granted, Jesus and Qumran mainly used Isaiah, Psalms, and Deuteronomy ... maybe pre-Logos).

Which order? Christian English order? Jewish English order? The Community Bible order? the Vulgate order? ...

DMB:
- They still can't get panels to line up by verse, when panels are linked.  Yes, big panels line up.  Small ones don't.  This goes back to Logos4.

Doesn't bother me as I think of verses as like the line numbers on legal documents. Otherwise, I have a deliberate, exaggerated dislike of verse units.

DMB:
- If you click a Bible cross-ref, and the resource isn't loaded, it loads and then doesn't go to the reference. That's a more recent curiousness.

I've not run into this. Has it been reported as a bug -- a rather silly one?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9200
LogosEmployee

DMB:
And today's 'not again' (which previously Logos staff thought made perfect sense).  You right-click an OL word, select lemma, and then ask for a same-resource search.  It happily complies, but the wrong part of the Bible.  And then surprise ... it just can't seem to find it. Where oh where can it be?

This is a nice "darned if we do, darned if we don't" situation.

If we do change the verse range ("Matthew-Revelation") back to "Entire Bible", everyone complains that "Logos keeps resetting my range selection when I am doing ten searches in a row in the Gospels, it's so annoying!"

If we don't change the verse range, everyone complains that "Logos searches in the wrong part of the Bible, it's so stupid!"

If we randomly change the verse range (based on whether the search found zero results, or it's been more than 30 minutes since you did a search, or you've changed Bibles, or the previously-selected verse range doesn't exist in the current Bible, which might actually be a sensible criterion, or some other heuristic), then a smaller number of people will complain that "Logos has arbitrary behaviour that I can't document, it's so incomprehensible!"

Right now, the software does not change any verse range selection that you have manually put in place. If you manually set it, you need to manually clear it.

Posts 1435
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2022 12:04 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

This is a nice "darned if we do, darned if we don't" situation.

Bradley, Bradley, Bradley ... years back it was Rick, Rick, Rick. It's YOUR design ... forcing a default verse range. It's actually possible on your right-clicks, to match the resource ... that your software offered to do. It is your design.

Posts 1435
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2022 12:09 PM

And everyone else ... seriously regarding Bible books?? You can't either (a) ask the user (list of choices), or (b) look at at a prioritized Bible? You DO go to church. Are they struggling with whats after Exodus? 

Posts 6062
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2022 12:16 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

DMB:
You right-click an OL word, select lemma, and then ask for a same-resource search.  It happily complies, but the wrong part of the Bible.  And then surprise ... it just can't seem to find it. Where oh where can it be?

This is a nice "darned if we do, darned if we don't" situation.

Can you program Logos/Verbum not to automatically generate searches that point to Scripture ranges that don't exist in the target Bible? Can you program Logos/Verbum not to change the previous "default" search range when Logos/Verbum changes that range for some very good reason (like this one)?

"God commands you to pray, but He forbids you to worry." - The Curé d'Ars.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2022 12:50 PM

DMB:
Are they struggling with whats after Exodus? 

Seriously. Esther and Daniel are where I see serious issues as opposed to theoretical issues.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9200
LogosEmployee

DMB:
It's YOUR design

You give me far too much credit.

DMB:
to match the resource

I already granted that that would be "sensible" in my last reply.

Posts 1435
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 9 2022 1:03 PM

MJ. Smith:

DMB:
Are they struggling with whats after Exodus? 

Seriously. Esther and Daniel are where I see serious issues as opposed to theoretical issues.

Well, that's easy. In Logos, there's Daniel. Then, there's Esther. Just humoring you, but the LXX papyri packagers must have wrung their hands ... what should we do? What should we do? Smiling.

BTW, after this thread, I was happily exploring the new Text Comparison functionality for the OT interlinear. Pretty nifty ... especially if they'd add a Vulgate RI. But my joy was soon shattered, when the little message came up, verse range not in that resource (something like that). It didn't take long to figure out what they had done.  I just don't think the design people (person) uses the product.

Posts 1435
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 12 2022 8:32 AM

Just continuing the daily 'grind' of Logos 'Bible' software and its studied indifference to 'Bible' references.

Today's indifference is on the mobile side.  In the image below, it's a 'Bible' commentary. There's just no clue which verse(s) you're at. Now, it's true among Logos apologists, verses are just so passe'. And you could make several TOC clicks to research where you are (narrow it down to a chapter).

What is SO WRONG with folks at Faithlife displaying the 'Bible' reference? Hint: the old Libronix-days.

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Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 12 2022 11:46 AM

BUZZER SOUNDING

The dreaded Logos apologist epitaph comes flying through the air dressed as the grim reaper.

I duck.

HEAVY SIGH OF RELIEF ...

You have to be in a Bible referenced section of the resource for the Bible references to show. In front material and such, there is no Bible reference to show.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 36062
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 12 2022 11:58 AM

DMB:
when the little message came up, verse range not in that resource (something like that). It didn't take long to figure out what they had done

Yes, this is annoying in that it restricts what works as the first entry in the resource comparison list. The specifying of the verse map of the reference gets one past some of the issue - but that is a nearly hidden advanced feature. However, it is gaining visibility slowly. And then there are the cases where you simply must change the order of the resources. Yes, using the first resource in the list that contains the passage would solve the problem but getting support where most users use a very limited set of resources ...

DMB:
I just don't think the design people (person) uses the product.

I suspect that they use it in a very set manner consistent with the practices of their faith community. We need to nudge them into broader and less restrictive uses.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1435
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 12 2022 12:34 PM

MJ. Smith:
You have to be in a Bible referenced section of the resource for the Bible references to show. In front material and such, there is no Bible reference to show.

Talking mobile; not desktop.

And you're not dead yet (epitaph). Smiling.

Posts 1435
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 12 2022 12:37 PM

MJ. Smith:

DMB:
when the little message came up, verse range not in that resource (something like that). It didn't take long to figure out what they had done

Yes, this is annoying in that it restricts what works as the first entry in the resource comparison list.

Normally true, but this time it had to do not so much what was first, as to whether it had lost its list of 'legal' interlinears for the OT.  Had to trick it

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