OT: a truth quote by Aristotle or Plato

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Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jun 16 2022 3:20 AM

Hey guys! So the other day I read a quote about TRUTH either by Aristotle or Plato (not necessarily in Logos) which I now CANNOT find ANYWHERE, more frustratingly, not even with Google. So I thought I'd see if it rings a bell with anyone in these fine fora.

It has to do with truth and goes along the lines of "If something is. and is the way I think it is then it's true, but it it's not and I think it is, then it's not true... blah blah blah..."

Does that ring a bell for ANYONE?! #Help Big Smile OR was I completely mistaken when I think it was by one of those ancient philosophers?

Thanks!

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 4:08 AM

Haha 😂🥹😂😂 I copied and pasted in google and this was one of my results 😂😂😂

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 6:01 AM

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Sam Shelton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 6:07 AM

I think this sounds close to what you are looking for:

This is clear, in the first place, if we define what the true and the false are. To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true; so that he who says of anything that it is, or that it is not, will say either what is true or what is false; but neither what is nor what is not is said to be or not to be[1]



[1] W. D. Ross, “Metaphysics,” in The Works of Aristotle, ed. Mortimer J. Adler and Philip W. Goetz, trans. W. D. Ross, Second Edition., vol. 7, Great Books of the Western World (Chicago; Auckland; Geneva; London; Madrid; Manila; Paris; Rome; Seoul; Sydney; Tokyo; Toronto: Robert P. Gwinn; Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc., 1990), 531.

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Sam Shelton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 6:15 AM

David got there before I could. Smile

If you have the Great Books of the Western World in Logos, you can find it there.

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 6:48 AM

Sam Shelton:

David got there before I could. Smile

If you have the Great Books of the Western World in Logos, you can find it there.

Or the Works of Aristotle, which is where I got my version.

I first learned of the quote from a Peter Kreeft paraphrase and wanted to delve deeper. That how I picked up the Aristo collection on FL

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Sam Shelton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 7:19 AM

The FL collection looks like a great set with a decent price.  It appears to be available in the "Logos 9 Philosophy Library Expansion, L" (save apparently for volume 2), which is on sale for 50% off. I may have to purchase that expansion.

 

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 7:24 AM

Here is another translation also available from Faithlife:

"To say that what is is not, or that what is not is, is false; but to say that what is is, and what is not is not, is true; and therefore also he who says that a thing is or is not will say either what is true or what is false."

https://ref.ly/logosres/aristotmeteng?ref=Aristoteles.Aristot.%2c+Met.+1011b.20-39&off=281 

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 1:19 PM

Sam Shelton:

The FL collection looks like a great set with a decent price.  It appears to be available in the "Logos 9 Philosophy Library Expansion, L" (save apparently for volume 2), which is on sale for 50% off. I may have to purchase that expansion.

 

I think I got my collection on sale. It might have been when Noet was still a thing

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 3:29 PM

and then there are the conditions that Aristotle notes i.e. that not all propositions can be determined to be true or false.

 The most widely known and probably most cited example is the sea-fight scenario discussed by Aristotle in On Interpretation (Chapter 9). Aristotle argued that statements such as “There will be a sea-fight tomorrow”, as well as the contrary prediction “There will not be a sea-fight tomorrow”, do not hold of necessity and hence lack definite truth values at present, while conceding that it is necessary that either there will be a sea-fight tomorrow or not.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 3:45 PM

A shortened version of that quote is: "That that is is. That that is not is not. That that is is not that that is not." It's fun giving it to someone without any punctuation or capitalization and seeing if they can parse it. Big Smile  

that that is is that that is not is not that that is is not that that is not

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 3:48 PM

MJ. Smith:

and then there are the conditions that Aristotle notes i.e. that not all propositions can be determined to be true or false.

 The most widely known and probably most cited example is the sea-fight scenario discussed by Aristotle in On Interpretation (Chapter 9). Aristotle argued that statements such as “There will be a sea-fight tomorrow”, as well as the contrary prediction “There will not be a sea-fight tomorrow”, do not hold of necessity and hence lack definite truth values at present, while conceding that it is necessary that either there will be a sea-fight tomorrow or not.

I think the difference is  his quote in Metaphysics dealt with an “is” not a future possible.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 3:58 PM

David Wanat:
I think the difference is  his quote in Metaphysics dealt with an “is” not a future possible.

Want some more Aristotelian fun?

In Metaphysics Book VI c. 4 1027 b20 he says that being true or false depends on combination and separation in judgment, then adds puzzlingly that falsity and truth are not in things "it is not as if the good were true, and the bad were in itself false".

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Lew Worthington | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 8:37 PM

I actually started posting a reply with this line this afternoon but couldn't figure out how to make it seem relevant. Smile

Rosie Perera:

A shortened version of that quote is: "That that is is. That that is not is not. That that is is not that that is not." It's fun giving it to someone without any punctuation or capitalization and seeing if they can parse it. Big Smile  

that that is is that that is not is not that that is is not that that is not

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 16 2022 10:57 PM

MJ. Smith:

David Wanat:
I think the difference is  his quote in Metaphysics dealt with an “is” not a future possible.

Want some more Aristotelian fun?

In Metaphysics Book VI c. 4 1027 b20 he says that being true or false depends on combination and separation in judgment, then adds puzzlingly that falsity and truth are not in things "it is not as if the good were true, and the bad were in itself false".

The language is complex, but if I understand it rightly, it makes sense

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Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 17 2022 2:23 AM

Thanks for all your help, guys! I KNEW you kids would know what I was talking about!

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