justification by faith

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Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jun 21 2022 7:38 AM

I'd like some quotes on how Christianity differs from other religions in terms of justification by faith. A quote about Muslims believing in saved by works, etc. 

Can you recommend a book or a way to search for this?

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2022 8:10 AM

I created a quote a long time ago: “Since faith is a work, faith works!” (John 6:28-29; James 2:17, 24, 26).

Here’s another one: “Paul said in Romans 5:1: “Having been justified by faith”…someone asked “What kind of faith, Paul?” And James answered: “The faith that works!” (James 2:24) 👍😁👌

I’m not muslim, but I assume that’s how they would answer.  There’s a new book that just came out of prepub, but I no longer see it.  I think Jack Blanch was the author.  Something about golden treasures quotes. It was $36 and change.

DAL

Ps. It’s John Blanchard: https://www.logos.com/product/162774/the-complete-gathered-gold-a-treasury-of-quotations-for-christians

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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2022 8:25 AM

Josh Hunt:
Can you recommend a book or a way to search for this?

re Islam: I would search for "five pillars" then the reader must conclude if any of those pillars would be considered "works"

within Christianity I believe you will find different understandings of faith (e.g. "faith that works"; simple assent; accentia, noticia & volition, trusting faith, etc.) Some consider "repentance" a work. some consider participation in sacraments a work, etc.

I intentionally have not identified my position, because that is not what these forums are for! I simply propose that differentiation exists WITHIN Christendom as well as OUTSIDE Christendom.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2022 9:20 AM

"justification by faith" is not a term that everyone agrees on the meaning of. An interfaith definition of is even more difficult. The assumption that there is a single position among Muslims must also be justified. I suggest a year long project learning as much as you can about Islam followed by long conversations with a Muslim (perhaps an educated imam) interested in interfaith issues. 

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2022 12:26 PM

I think the Sahih Al Bukhari had hadith on how that worked. It can be found for cheap on Amazon or free in websites. 

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Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2022 6:26 PM

Josh Hunt:
I'd like some quotes on how Christianity differs from other religions in terms of justification by faith. ...

Josh, if you're interested in deepening your understanding of justification by fatih, you might like to consider Matthew Bates' recent books. He treats faith as not merely mental assent to a doctrine but as allegiance to the person of Christ in whom we are justified:

Salvation by Allegiance Alone: Rethinking Faith, Works, and the Gospel of Jesus the King

Gospel Allegiance: What Faith in Jesus Misses for Salvation in Christ

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 21 2022 8:35 PM

MJ. Smith:
"justification by faith" is not a term that everyone agrees on the meaning of.

Goodness, that's for sure.  And presuming the OP at least had his own (for a comparison), the same problem occurs on the Muslim side of the house (or Buddhist, or ....).

One thing I don't think 'gentiles' ever seem to see is 'justification by birth' (jewish; as the contra).

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 24 2022 3:23 AM

You might want to look into

Josh Hunt:
how Christianity differs from

the Bible

Josh Hunt:
in terms of justification by faith.

It's certainly a consideration worthy of exploration...DAL brought up a few relevant verses, but pretty much every witness except Paulus plainly says justification (i.e. being declared righteous) is accomplished through obedience to ':Elohhiym by keeping YHWH's will as revealed in His Tohraah (the Law)...plus, that same Law and Yeishuua` both say it takes two or more witnesses to confirm a matter. Since Paulus is alone is his pronouncement of justification by faith (being emphatically contrary to YHWH's own revelation--Prov. 10:16 NASB, which also explicitly contradicts Paulus's assertion in Rom. 4 that salvation is not a wage paid for work performed), that means people are obliged--by the express teaching of God--to ignore his testimony.

Yes, I know...unbelievable.

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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 1:23 PM

Many believe in "justified by faith", even James (Jam 2:21) but take away obedience, repentance, confession of Christ and baptism... then there cannot be "justified by faith" only...

Gal 3:24 talks about the O.T, Law was a tutor to bring the Jews to Christ but the Jews did have to keep the O.T. Law to be considered "justified by faith" didn't they?

An interesting study is Rom 5:1 and Jam 2:20 and Jam 2:26. Did James contradict Paul?  

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 2:50 PM

xnman:
but the Jews did have to keep the O.T. Law to be considered "justified by faith" didn't they?

If you recall, I provided some material for consideration in this thread pertinent to this question [see especially the paragraph that begins "Now we need to acknowledge...".] There isn't any Hebrew word in the Bible that means what Paulus defines "faith" to mean. When he says in Gal. 3:11 that "it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law" because...and then quotes as support Hab. 2:4 NASB, the word Paulus translates as "faith" is the Hebrew word ':emuunaah, which means "faithfully keeping God's will", or in other words, "faithfully keeping the law". To drag this boondoggle fully into the light, Paulus essentially said, "obviously no one is made righteous by keeping the law, because Habakkuk said the righteous will live by keeping the law". Make of that what you will.

If you want a hint about how you ought to think about it, realize that you quoted the answer to your own question.

xnman:
An interesting study is Rom 5:1 and Jam 2:20 and Jam 2:26. Did James contradict Paul?

Look at Jam. 2:20 and understand that Jacob was addressing Paulus directly as the "foolish person". You tell me...did Jacob contradict Paulus?

To keep this thread from being locked, let me know if you want to discuss this elsewhere.

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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 6:57 PM

David Paul:

To keep this thread from being locked, let me know if you want to discuss this elsewhere.

I don't want to lock the thread either....   where would you suggest?

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 7:09 PM

I'm about to disconnect this phone number in the next few weeks since I'm moving...call me and we can make arrangements.

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