Seriously Faithlife, couldn't you guys make a linux app?

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This post has 17 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 59
Ezra Miller | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jun 26 2022 2:00 AM

Yet another Linux Thread. Yes, I've read through the many threads. Yes, I'm aware of the web app, but it sucks. It's not the same thing. And I don't always use wifi when I use my laptop for anything. The android app is awesome! But I'd really like to see a linux app. I've tried wine, but something doesn't quite work right. I can install Logos, and I can get it to execute, because I can see the Logos logo for a second, and then it crashes.

You can't tell me that making a linux app will put you in the negatives with profits. I've seen two things happen in the open source community. The first is at least 3 or 4 open source Bible apps built with Linux natively in mind. The second is two giants in the tech industry have open sourced their drivers very recently--AMD and now Nvidia. Go google it. Guess what? They are still here, and growing. AMD is going to have some Apple hardware deals going on soon, or maybe they are now. We've seen Steam embrace linux, and they are still the biggest game seller, but that's because they listen to their clients. Microsoft...well Microsoft doesn't listen to their clients as usual, and that's why they have lost market share on a lot of things. I realize that Faithlife is profit-driven, so all I can say is the open source community loves to help others with coding. You would save a lot by opening your code up to the community. You wouldn't have to open everything up either. Just a suggestion.

Posts 1659
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 6:56 AM

Ezra, whacking someone over the head, in hopes they'll stop serving others and help you, isn't a winning strategy. Especially for Linux. Plus a riot of mistated assertions doesn't help Linux either.

Posts 3541
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 7:34 AM

One could also easily say can't you just get a Windows machine?

Posts 59
Ezra Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 8:08 AM

Every single program i use on Windows except for Logos works on Linux. Not making that up.

Posts 984
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 8:48 AM

Ezra Miller:

Every single program i use on Windows except for Logos works on Linux. Not making that up.

You said you tried to install Wine and Logos but ran into troubles. Try the ferion script again. You can find it here: https://github.com/ferion11/LogosLinuxInstaller I have it running in a container on my Chromebook and it works well except for a couple of known issues. But we are way ahead of where we were a couple of years ago and Logos development on Wine has attracted Wine developer support, so things will get better. 

Then, go to the main Linux thread at https://community.logos.com/forums/t/121.aspx?PageIndex=72 and if you need help, John and others can assist you.

Posts 1488
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 12:10 PM

Personally, I wonder whether it's an issue of an update to Linux, or the program (like Wine) breaking Logos for Linux and finding it takes FL a lot more resources to fix a Linux version than it's prepared to commit.

I don't have any objections to a Linux app. But I'd want to find the reasons against before assuming it was some kind of disinterest or bad will.

WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum 9 Ultimate

Posts 3541
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 1:12 PM

David Wanat:

Personally, I wonder whether it's an issue of an update to Linux, or the program (like Wine) breaking Logos for Linux and finding it takes FL a lot more resources to fix a Linux version than it's prepared to commit.

I don't have any objections to a Linux app. But I'd want to find the reasons against before assuming it was some kind of disinterest or bad will.

My guess is the same reason as the slow development of the web app. Only so many developers with current priorities. Why should FL divert resources to develop a platform that less than 3% of computer users use? Short answer, they shouldn't.

I have a Windows Machine. There are Mac Only programs I would love to use but can't. I don't complain to those developers that they do not make the software for my system. I accept the fact I would have to use a different device.

Posts 1272
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 2:34 PM

David Wanat:

I'd want to find the reasons against before assuming it was some kind of disinterest or bad will.

I think this is a really helpful point David... there is actually very good will!

Bob explained it in terms of the Linux desktop market size vs the cost of development. His assessment is that it wouldn't be profitable. My guess is that if it would be profitable that would be a strong motivation for them to do it. I even imagine if it was loss making but not expensive we might see it but faithlife appear to have costed it as too expensive and I think we have to realise that this assessment is very likely correct since it is precisely within their expertise. Also they have recent experience with porting to a new platform in developing for the mac.

However, I continue to wonder if porting the windows code to Linux might be a lot cheaper than the mac port and possibly cheaper than they have imagined because of GtkSharp or Avalonia etc. It might be a pipe dream but I remain hopeful that the cost to benefit ratio will eventually tip in our favour?!

Several of us have done a lot of work with trying to get the windows version working on Linux and such work continues. We have had great success and many of us use Logos on Linux as a daily driver but without some of the audio/video features or speech.

I do think it would be helpful to remember 3 points with gratitude:

1) the web app was developed partly in response to Linux and ChromeOS users. It might not be exactly what we were hoping for but we were not ignored!

2) faithlife have been very supportive of our community efforts, Logos on Linux is not supported but they do help us sometimes with handy hints and tips and have been very permissive about distribution of the installer etc.

3) work with wine continues and wine development continues - I very much hope (an educated guess) that we will perfect it in the next year or so. i.e. very stable and with speech + audio + video too. Folks are also working on new much easier ways to do the install.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 1488
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 4:50 PM

David Taylor Jr:

I have a Windows Machine. There are Mac Only programs I would love to use but can't. I don't complain to those developers that they do not make the software for my system. I accept the fact I would have to use a different device.

I can relate to that. The desktop blogging software for PC is terrible. I literally have to move it from a PC to an iPad via iCloud and use an iPad blogging app to get a passably formatted blog.

WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum 9 Ultimate

Posts 9176
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 5:01 PM

When all is said and done, not many people use Logos in a Linux.  Maybe that’s the reason why an app hasn’t been developed.  Most Logos users are either Windows or iOS.

DAL

Posts 1265
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 6:50 PM

I'm a thinking.... there is a way to run Windows on Linux.... But I've never played with Linux... 

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

Posts 19707
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 6:54 PM

DAL:
When all is said and done, not many people use Logos in a Linux.  Maybe that’s the reason why an app hasn’t been developed.  Most Logos users are either Windows or iOS.

That's like saying most people don't buy flying cars. They use traditional ones that drive on roads. Well, of course, since you can't buy flying cars. There have been some experimental ones and concept models built but very few, and they haven't been certified for flying in general airspace yet.

Posts 2861
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 9:27 PM

If there was a developmental breakthrough that made apps really easy to cross-platform maybe this isn't far-fetched. It's still a maintenance heavy burden. I think Windows is so plain vanilla and hardware cheap that the Linux dream keeps floating away. I still haven't seen a single reason to use Linux except to hold onto old hardware.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 59
Ezra Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2022 9:40 PM

In the last few years, there has been a huge increase in porting apps or programs to Linux, from Windows or Mac, and vice versa. It's way easier than it was 10 years ago, and with Windows 11 TMP 2.0 requirements, Linux is going to get a big influx of new users I think. I could be wrong though.

I started using linux in college because I was tired of using pirated software. I haven't learned any programming along the way, but I do know my way around enough to get stuff done. Plus I have always had older hardware laying around, and until the Raspberry Pi 4, repurposed everything. Now I only repurpose what I really need. I have purchased Windows and programs since then, but more and more, I am fed up with Microsoft using home users as beta testers for their Pro users or Enterprise users. The telemetry drives me nuts. I don't want to have my bandwidth wasted while MS sorts through my data, trying to sell my info or sell me more useless garbage. And we pay for this stuff BTW lol. It's been one heck of a ride though.

Posts 5197
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 27 2022 9:06 AM

Not the greatest solution but is there a program that could simulate Windows on Linux? There is a iOS program called Parallels which lets you run Windows on a Mac.

Posts 6122
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 27 2022 10:43 AM

Mattillo:
Not the greatest solution but is there a program that could simulate Windows on Linux?

Yes, essentially. That is how plenty of people have been using Logos on Linux for years.

“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara

Posts 1272
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 27 2022 4:03 PM

SineNomine:

Mattillo:
Not the greatest solution but is there a program that could simulate Windows on Linux?

Yes, essentially. That is how plenty of people have been using Logos on Linux for years.

There are 2 different tracks for this:

1) Virtualisation - You are actually running windows on Linux. You need a windows license and it performs essentially perfectly with a slight performance hit. I don't like this because it is a little slower.

2) Wine - A recursive acronym for 'wine is not an emulator'. What is it then? It is a reimplementation of the windows libraries and more which enables windows apps to genuinely run natively on Linux. This is my preferred method and it works very well but not perfectly. There are other versions of this with pros and cons including company support. Proton is popular with games and Crossover is a commercial version.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 1272
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 27 2022 4:07 PM

mab:
If there was a developmental breakthrough that made apps really easy to cross-platform maybe this isn't far-fetched.

It's not too far fetched, but my prediction is that long before Faithlife can deliver a port (even if they wanted to), wine will work flawlessly with Logos.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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