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David Paul | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jun 28 2022 2:00 AM

TLOT distinguishes between HALOT & KB, which I don't think is always the case in Logos (for instance LHI often references KB...which results in dead links, come to think of it. I don't think KB is actually a resource in Logos, but HALOT is, so why is LHI, an IN-HOUSE FL project, linking to KB??? FIX IT!!!).

Anyway, my current irritation is that TLOT has dead links to HALOT.

This is a no-no. Please do fix this asap. Thanks.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 28 2022 5:48 AM

Gee ... just because TLOT ignores HALOT, but does link to small DSS fragments in hot caves, and other esoterica ... what's the problem?  And I suppose you'll make the point just scanning for HAL > page number seems pretty easy coding, huh?

I wonder why they didn't, when TLOT came out (long after HALOT).  Never noticed; I use the lexeme header line. I can understand no KB in Logos ... and the KBs in LHI go all the way back to South Africa, I think.  FL never liked to do much with LHI ... shared ownership?

I guess you also noticed HALOT ignores HALOT also ... but picks up the Mesha inscription.  That's good.  My guess is a policy?

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Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 28 2022 8:14 AM

TLOT references the German edition of HAL, not the English translation found in Logos.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 28 2022 5:13 PM

Kyle G. Anderson:

TLOT references the German edition of HAL, not the English translation found in Logos.

Confused

Maybe so...but aren't they pretty much 1-to-1 exchanges? After all, the focus isn't German or English, it's the Hebrew. Ought to be a mostly neutral playground.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 28 2022 5:21 PM

DMB:
I can understand no KB in Logos ... and the KBs in LHI go all the way back to South Africa, I think.  FL never liked to do much with LHI ... shared ownership?

Hmm, wasn't aware that they weren't the sole proprietors of LHI...I guess that explains some of the awkwardness. I know Bob was anxious to get a legit Hebrew interlinear in the stable, but signing on to a project that at the blueprint level isn't friendly with the English language user base is...odd. Given the vagaries and annoyances of partners projects, I think it's about time for FL to commission a wholly in-house TRUE interlinear (I can't bear the idea of using a reverse interlinear Huh?), one which isn't hamstrung before it leaves the gate.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 28 2022 6:49 PM

David Paul:
I can't bear the idea of using a reverse interlinear Huh?), one which isn't hamstrung before it leaves the gate.

I'm thinking Herod Antipas ... "Is that George come back from the dead?"

But LHI seems to be stuck in time.  There's the issues you've often mentioned.  Then there's just the UI issues battled last week:

If you use an Info-panel with click as the method, you have to battle the famous (a/b...) popup ... instead of getting info from the panel:

And the periodic strange popups that I've not seen before ... maybe just me:

Sometimes, you get a DBLH combined with an a/b popup ... it's exciting!  But there has been progress since Libby ... the a/b popup battled the morph popup.  It was gruesome.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 2:00 AM

DMB:
I'm thinking Herod Antipas ... "Is that George come back from the dead?"

I was thinking of ol' George as I was typing out that post. Smile He gave me (and everyone else) a lot of grief for even using an interlinear--I think he worried that people used them as "pronouncements from on high". I suppose some folks probably do, but I just use the English line as a literalist translation, and I often find myself taking issue with that interpretation. Those DBLH links recall my observation from this post that both LHI and the DBLs are FL-associated products. It's really weird that FL (pre FL) could arrange to interweave these resources but somehow didn't have either the ability or insight to avoid the gigantic roadblock of having pointless KB (German-based) link associations in an intentionally English product. Why? Why? Why? Why go to all of that expense (and I seem to remember Bob emphasizing the expense) only to design and create a resource that includes useless and thus annoyingly unhelpful links?

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Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 8:42 AM

David Paul:

Kyle G. Anderson:

TLOT references the German edition of HAL, not the English translation found in Logos.

Confused

Maybe so...but aren't they pretty much 1-to-1 exchanges? After all, the focus isn't German or English, it's the Hebrew. Ought to be a mostly neutral playground.

No. Not as far as I can tell. I spot checked about a dozen and I couldn't find any indication that the pagination matched up.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 9:12 AM

David Paul:

I was thinking of ol' George as I was typing out that post. Smile He gave me (and everyone else) a lot of grief for even using an interlinear--I think he worried that people used them as "pronouncements from on high". I suppose some folks probably do, but I just use the English line as a literalist translation, and I often find myself taking issue with that interpretation. 

Appreciate Kyle's checking.

The comment on interlinear and George, my belief, is that Logos is going down an acidic path (which is fine by me). The list-everything, and pseudo-one-to-one matching (interlinears, sense, datasets) completely loses (and looses too) the original 'package' ... whatever that might have been.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 9:32 AM

DMB:
The list-everything, and pseudo-one-to-one matching (interlinears, sense, datasets) completely loses (and looses too) the original 'package' ... whatever that might have been.

Today is one of those days when I'm in a "in my day I had to walk 10 miles to school in the snow uphill both ways" kind of day. This relates to why George hated interlinears. There is a huge gap between knowing something and being able to find the information quickly. Back in the day we needed to walk the floors of the library, grab books, open pages ...which encouraged us to actually learn the information well enough to manipulate it in our heads from the comfort of our chairs. To understand, I knew a four-grade teacher who never asked her students to memorize the multiplication tables. She simply put them on the back of a bookshelf in a back corner of the classroom. To look up the multiplication table you had to get up, go to the back corner of the room, walk behind the bookshelf, and find your answer. The inconvenience was enough to make her students learn their multiplication tables very well - and quite quickly. There are times when I wish I could put Logos/Verbum "helps" where they were inconvenient as a means of forcing users to learn and think rather than parrot information they look up. I told you it was an "in my day" grumpy sort of day.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 5:30 PM

Kyle G. Anderson:
No. Not as far as I can tell. I spot checked about a dozen and I couldn't find any indication that the pagination matched up.

Indifferent  Pagination?

Tongue Tied  Pagination??

Super Angry  We don't need no pagination!!

Angel  What we do need is a link to the appropriate lexical entry. Idea

Seriously, the Hebrew is the Hebrew is the Hebrew is the Hebrew. Look, FL has ALREADY implemented what I'm describing! In ESL, there are links to the corresponding lexical entries of other resources that obviously don't have matching pagination. The 1-to-1 that matters in each isn't a matter of page number; it's the lexical entry itself. That's how and why the pics below are possible.

.

Above, the ESL-H entry has links to TWOT & DBLH, and below, the ESL-G entry has links to TDNT, TDNTA, & DBLG...all obviously having widely differing pagination.

Just apply this tried-and-true process to making links in LHI that match the English HALOT lexeme in question (you could even toss in DBLH or BDB or TWOT or TDOT links as well while you're at it!) at whatever point a KB link is mentioned in LHI. Hey, and when you're done, grab yourself a cup of that FL famous free coffee! Coffee You will have earned it! Yes

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2022 2:07 AM

David Paul:
Angel  What we do need is a link to the appropriate lexical entry. Idea

Hope this is being worked on. Pretty much every "like" lexicon entry in Logos resources should have a direct hyperlink to every other "like" lexicon entry.

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