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Posts 24
Ed Dingess | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jun 29 2022 12:45 PM

I am attempting to create a simple timeline of the kings of Israel and Judah along with the prophets. I am befuddled that I can't seem to even come close because of the lack of data for the kings across the timeline. What am I doing wrong?

Posts 1644
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 1:32 PM

I have no idea.  I thought I'd try it out ... I used it maybe 10 years ago.  I found maybe 1/3 of the kings.

I slipped over to Accordance timeline tool, and it took maybe 30 seconds to whip it out:

Posts 3573
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 3:01 PM

DMB:

I have no idea.  I thought I'd try it out ... I used it maybe 10 years ago.  I found maybe 1/3 of the kings.

I slipped over to Accordance timeline tool, and it took maybe 30 seconds to whip it out:

Shaming with its simple and useful presentation, tsk tsk.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

Posts 3573
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 3:21 PM

Ed Dingess:
What am I doing wrong?
Ed, your question should generate a flood of requests for simple useful timelines in Logos. The timelines in Logos are cluttered and offer no sense of contrast and comparison. If Logos had timelines such as those found in the competitions, I would actually use them!

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

Posts 1644
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 3:49 PM

Beloved Amodeo:

Shaming with its simple and useful presentation, tsk tsk.

Did you look at the Logos timeline documentation?  I'd hate to be prep'ing a Bible study class!  I know I'll get in trouble with a certain someone (first initial 'M'), but I think the common sense wheels are coming off of the the Faithlife design bicycle. Who are they doing this for??

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 3:54 PM

Read the thread Chart of Prophets and Kings - Faithlife Forums (logos.com)

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 36340
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 3:57 PM

Beloved Amodeo:
Ed, your question should generate a flood of requests for simple useful timelines in Logos.

We've already had our annual revisiting of this issue Dates of Old Testament Prophets - Faithlife Forums (logos.com) although a search of the forums indicates we may have accidentally missed 2021. Our annual discussion always seems to be prophets and kings.  Perhaps in 2021 we used a different example.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3573
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 5:22 PM

MJ. Smith:

Beloved Amodeo:
Ed, your question should generate a flood of requests for simple useful timelines in Logos.

We've already had our annual revisiting of this issue Dates of Old Testament Prophets - Faithlife Forums (logos.com) although a search of the forums indicates we may have accidentally missed 2021. Our annual discussion always seems to be prophets and kings.  Perhaps in 2021 we used a different example.

Ok, MJ, I've read the prior posts and have come away with a burr in my saddle. If as you contend that this is a topic regularly repeated, my first question is why?

There seems to be a hole inadequately filled; though the persons requesting the information appear satisfied with the help offered, I find no simple answer offered by the tool I think which should provide it readily, that being the Timeline Tool.

I'm sorry,  I just can't accept run this search, find this chart, or timeline, in this resource as an adequate answer. My Logos should excel and provide stunning results from the tool that should be adapted to provide the answer, namely the Timeline Tool. If this is accomplished, and I think it should be, then the annual hajj will have been halted.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

Posts 36340
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 5:37 PM

Oh, you want me to say that for myself the solution is professional timeline software? Okay, that actually is my solution. In L3 I'd built a number of timelines that fed nicely into Libronix. Unfortunately, Faithlife considered this capability to be incidental not a genuine feature. In keeping with my valuing consistency, I've never forgiven them and use external software to obtain the timelines I need. 

Beloved Amodeo:
If as you contend that this is a topic regularly repeated, my first question is why?

My suspicion is that the lack of action is related to the emphasis on pastors rather than Sunday school/religious ed/faith formation personnel.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3573
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 6:03 PM

MJ. Smith:
I've never forgiven them and use external software to obtain the timelines I need. 
Your response makes me sad. If you truly withdrew your forgiveness you would have left Logos altogether, but we are far too invested for that solution. So, I encourage you to demand redress. Fix what is broken. Search is not the only squeaky wheel in this platform.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

Posts 1262
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 6:32 PM

Beloved Amodeo:

MJ. Smith:
I've never forgiven them and use external software to obtain the timelines I need. 
Your response makes me sad. If you truly withdrew your forgiveness you would have left Logos altogether, but we are far too invested for that solution. So, I encourage you to demand redress. Fix what is broken. Search is not the only squeaky wheel in this platform.

Amen and Amen!!   I find the Logos Timlines are like Logos Search.... confusing. Both need lots of work!

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

Posts 1644
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 6:33 PM

Beloved Amodeo:
Fix what is broken. Search is not the only squeaky wheel in this platform.

Not answering for MJ, Beloved.  But there's really not much FL-produced, that actually works timeline-wise. 

The Faithlife Study Bible (image below) has Infographics and a set of organized timelines. But they don't appear to care whether they can be displayed for Bible class. Notice the immovable panel on the right, forcing a zoom-out just to get the kings in a view (compare to Accordance above).

If per chance, you still have the older Libby timelines, be careful.  Viewing the first one (eg kings) is fine (and quite interesting, showing which authors think which dates). But don't go for a second one (eg prophets) .... your Logos will crash.  I tried several times.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 6:41 PM

Beloved Amodeo:
Fix what is broken. Search is not the only squeaky wheel in this platform.

For myself, and on behalf of all those who use liturgical calendars, my biggest squeaky wheel is getting the liturgical calendar corrected. The current implementation erroneously ties the calendar to a lectionary and fails to recognize that there are three common naming conventions that refer to the same dates in the Western calendar. The Byzantine (Eastern Orthodox) brings another set of terminology for basically the same calendar. I have yet to find an accurate way to align the Oriental Orthodox calendar but that may be simply my lack of understanding.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 36340
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 7:17 PM

xnman:
 I find the Logos Timlines are like Logos Search.... confusing. Both need lots of work!

I have a somewhat different analysis. The Timelines need continuing work on connecting resources and refining of categories. The primary problem with the Timeline is that it is not intended to meet the need we most often turn to it for. There is a reason that wrenches and screwdrivers are usually separate tools. The Search, on the other hand, is primarily a matter of putting in the mental effort to learn to use it. Yes, the syntax can be improved but you are still stuck with "If you can't clearly define what you are looking for, you can't tell if you found it."

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1188
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 7:31 PM

MJ. Smith:

My suspicion is that the lack of action is related to the emphasis on pastors rather than Sunday school/religious ed/faith formation personnel.

That may well be it. I'd love, love, love to be able to produce simple timelines to use in teaching. I was teaching First and Second Samuel last year, and spent a good deal of time trying to use the Logos timeline feature to produce something I could hand out to the class.  It may just be me, but I was purely incapable of making it work.  Everything I came up with was just too cluttered and, frankly, ugly to use as a handout or slide.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 29 2022 10:37 PM

EastTN:
I'd love, love, love to be able to produce simple timelines to use in teaching. I was teaching First and Second Samuel last year, and spent a good deal of time trying to use the Logos timeline feature to produce something I could hand out to the class.  It may just be me, but I was purely incapable of making it work.  Everything I came up with was just too cluttered and, frankly, ugly to use as a handout or slide.

My experience is similar.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 24
Ed Dingess | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2022 3:36 AM

That's impressive. Seems to be that Logos has simply NOT made the Timeline functionality anything close to a priority. That's too bad.

Posts 24
Ed Dingess | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2022 3:36 AM

That's impressive. Seems to be that Logos has simply NOT made the Timeline functionality anything close to a priority. That's too bad.

Posts 24
Ed Dingess | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2022 3:38 AM

Amen and amen!

Posts 1262
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 30 2022 4:56 AM

MJ. Smith:

xnman:
 I find the Logos Timlines are like Logos Search.... confusing. Both need lots of work!

I have a somewhat different analysis. The Timelines need continuing work on connecting resources and refining of categories. The primary problem with the Timeline is that it is not intended to meet the need we most often turn to it for. There is a reason that wrenches and screwdrivers are usually separate tools. The Search, on the other hand, is primarily a matter of putting in the mental effort to learn to use it. Yes, the syntax can be improved but you are still stuck with "If you can't clearly define what you are looking for, you can't tell if you found it."

About the Search.... no argument, it's me.... and just so you know.... I do try everyday ... just seems I always spend time "learning" instead of "doing". Hope I learn it before I don't need it any more.... FL asked the questions.... which gives hope it may be improved. Geeked

As to the Timelines.... I know I'll get in trouble... but I know times I would like to use them... but they just don't work for me. Again, it's probably me.... 

Edit: I'm a Logos fan... I like Logos...but ... Logos has some work to do, no doubt. When the functions of Logos become so difficult or so convoluted (Search and Timeline) that people don't use them ... I think it lessens the greatness of the program. While I would like to see "new things" in Logos 10... maybe it would be better if more of FL time was spent in making some of these functions actually work so that we users can actually use them. 

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

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