BUGGY BUG: This one is about as annoying as it gets

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Posts 5659
David Paul | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2022 3:36 PM

BEHOLD!! The SERIF font in the note window produces a SANS SERIF output in the note pop-up!!

Hmm

BEHOLD!! The SANS SERIF font in the note window produces a SERIF output in the note pop-up!!

Hmm

This is stupid.

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

Posts 5659
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2022 7:59 PM

Ever since L9 came out, it has been riddled with inanities and process-breaking gremlins that have put a drastic crimp in my workflows. WHY are these things allowed to continue for years without being resolved?

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

Posts 36370
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 9 2022 8:42 PM

David Paul:
WHY are these things allowed to continue for years without being resolved?

Limited resources.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19714
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2022 2:13 AM

David Paul:

Ever since L9 came out, it has been riddled with inanities and process-breaking gremlins that have put a drastic crimp in my workflows. WHY are these things allowed to continue for years without being resolved?

The look of text is not considered to be a serious bug by Logos development evidently. "Process-breaking gremlins" and "drastic crimp in my workflows" is a bit of hyperbolic melodrama for a wrong font error of this nature, don't you think? If nobody has reported it before, then they might never have noticed it. And even if it has been reported before, it's obviously not a showstopper.

Posts 3541
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2022 5:55 AM

Rosie Perera:
"Process-breaking gremlins" and "drastic crimp in my workflows" is a bit of hyperbolic melodrama for a wrong font error of this nature, don't you think?
Agree

Rosie Perera:
If nobody has reported it before, then they might never have noticed it.
I've reported the same problem with Factbook.

Posts 1671
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 10 2022 7:02 AM

My impression is they get real excited about presentation. Fonts, spacing, amount of white space and so on.  But that was when they had a goodly amount of staff pursuing that world.  Now, it's getting a bit rough around the edges.  Yesterday I noticed a lengthy horizontal scrollbar on a panel, almost black (serious Logosian violation!). The button for multiview is almost indistinguishable (on/off/busy sequence).

OTOH, hebrew is always a Logosian yawner.  They never did calm down the sizing, so it doesn't break up the text flow so badly.

Posts 62
Tim Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 18 2022 4:29 AM

Why?  Because we users continue to spend our hard earned money on this product regardless of how many bugs it has.  I'm very disappointed in Logos and their lack of concern and quality control.  There is not a competing product, they know it, this what we get.

Posts 1702
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 18 2022 10:10 AM

Rosie Perera:

David Paul:

Ever since L9 came out, it has been riddled with inanities and process-breaking gremlins that have put a drastic crimp in my workflows. WHY are these things allowed to continue for years without being resolved?

The look of text is not considered to be a serious bug by Logos development evidently. "Process-breaking gremlins" and "drastic crimp in my workflows" is a bit of hyperbolic melodrama for a wrong font error of this nature, don't you think? If nobody has reported it before, then they might never have noticed it. And even if it has been reported before, it's obviously not a showstopper.

I would agree with his overall point about Logos 9 though. It has been the single most workflow-disruptive upgrade for me in terms of the impact of the bugs/flaws/changes/inconsistencies (I came in on Logos 6 for context). Logos 9 has caused me to turn off automatic updates for the first time since I've been a Logos user, and I'm normally someone who has automatic updates turned on for pretty much everything else on my computer.

It's sad because I feel like Logos 9 was a bit of a bait and switch because it didn't seem like it was going to be a drastic overhaul the way Logos 8 was. But Logos 9 has literally changed the way I use Logos in numerous ways just because of the various bugs (especially ones relating to scaling and small screens) and how they have changed the toolbar (bolting on more and more buttons).

End of rant.

Posts 36370
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 18 2022 11:03 AM

Kiyah:
It has been the single most workflow-disruptive upgrade for me in terms of the impact of the bugs/flaws/changes/inconsistencies (I came in on Logos 6 for context). Logos 9 has caused me to turn off automatic updates for the first time

I had not gleaned this from the forum posts and I had few issues myself. Those for whom the bugs/flaws/changes/inconsistencies impacted their workflow should have been more vocal. There are some of us who would have changed our priorities for feedback and forum pressure had we known the problems were more than an inconvenience.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1702
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 18 2022 11:18 AM

MJ. Smith:

Kiyah:
It has been the single most workflow-disruptive upgrade for me in terms of the impact of the bugs/flaws/changes/inconsistencies (I came in on Logos 6 for context). Logos 9 has caused me to turn off automatic updates for the first time

I had not gleaned this from the forum posts and I had few issues myself. Those for whom the bugs/flaws/changes/inconsistencies impacted their workflow should have been more vocal. There are some of us who would have changed our priorities for feedback and forum pressure had we known the problems were more than an inconvenience.

People have been vocal. Maybe those problems didn't impact you. But both I and others have been vocal in reporting problems and complaining about bugs and disruptive changes. I've seen plenty of posts, so I guess it's just a difference in perspective. But to simply declare that people haven't been vocal is unfair. The problem is too many people spend too much time downplaying the problems people do complain about, kind of like what's happening on this thread.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 18 2022 11:58 AM

Kiyah:
But to simply declare that people haven't been vocal is unfair.

If that is what I'd said it would have been unfair. I did not say people had not reported the problem. I said they had not made clear that it "impacted their workflow"..

Kiyah:
The problem is too many people spend too much time downplaying the problems people do complain about,

I have not seen this as a common issue unless you count teaching people to use the software as designed rather than asking it to do what it is not designed for and is unable to do as "downplaying". One can always request a change in how the features work but you have to use them as they do work.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1702
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 18 2022 12:37 PM

MJ. Smith:

Kiyah:
But to simply declare that people haven't been vocal is unfair.

If that is what I'd said it would have been unfair. I did not say people had not reported the problem. I said they had not made clear that it "impacted their workflow"..

People have been vocal about this precise thing. So I still think the statement is unfair.

MJ. Smith:

Kiyah:
The problem is too many people spend too much time downplaying the problems people do complain about,

I have not seen this as a common issue unless you count teaching people to use the software as designed rather than asking it to do what it is not designed for and is unable to do as "downplaying". One can always request a change in how the features work but you have to use them as they do work.

1. Sometimes people are suggesting that the design is not working for their needs. Simply telling them how to use the software as designed (though helpful in one sense) is not directly addressing the core issue that they might be voicing, so it comes across as downplaying even if that's not how it's intended. Even if someone doesn't have the knowledge that you have about the design, doesn't mean their feedback on whether or not the tool is meeting their needs is invalid.

2. You "not seeing" something from the perspective of a forum MVP doesn't dictate what others are experiencing, so you are not the expert on what others are experiencing and therefore don't get to declare from on high that it's not happening just because you're coming from a different vantage point. You in particular have a tendency to confuse your perspective and your user experience with what is reality for everyone, and thus don't view it as merely your perspective but as absolute fact. If MJ doesn't see it or experience it, then it is not happening. When you and others do that, it results in downplaying what others are reporting. Saying people haven't been vocal about disruptions is rather obtuse and not helpful (and untrue), especially considering the fact that you yourself have been involved in many of those types of threads.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 18 2022 1:13 PM

Kiyah:
If MJ doesn't see it or experience it, then it is not happening.

Now THAT'S unfair -- and uncharacteristic of you. What's the real issue here?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5999
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 18 2022 1:18 PM

Kiyah:
People have been vocal about this precise thing. So I still think the statement is unfair.

I tend to read the forums at least daily - I am getting forgetful but I simply don't recall other threads with the issue noted in the OP.

It may be as David writes 'Stupid' and I wonder with him why this would be so.

I believe David when he says that this affects his work flow although I must admit to be mystified as to how the font used in something so ephemeral as a Pop Up would put a serious block on work accomplished. I guess this is because I am not involved in the work that David is doing.

I would have liked to have read in that post something along the lines of... When I am trying to X this pop-up turning up with a different font means that I cannot do Y/ I have to do Z to rectify the situation/ makes the pop-up useless because...

That would help me put myself in David's shoes.

I am a 'Logos-light' user but whenever a problem appears in the Forums I try, at least to replicate it. Oft times I am baffled and make no comment. Sometimes I can confirm the problem but know no solution. Sometimes I can actually offer a solution.

A case in point being the long running thread which essentially boiled down to 'Every time I type something in the Go box and press Enter; Factbook opens. I don't want Factbook to open'. Solution 'Don't press Enter!'.

If I don't understand the problem I stand no chance of being able to contribute to a solution.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 1702
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 18 2022 2:01 PM

Mike Binks:

Kiyah:
People have been vocal about this precise thing. So I still think the statement is unfair.

I tend to read the forums at least daily - I am getting forgetful but I simply don't recall other threads with the issue noted in the OP.

When I said "this precise thing" I mean David's comment about Logos 9 being disruptive to his workflow below:

David Paul:

Ever since L9 came out, it has been riddled with inanities and process-breaking gremlins that have put a drastic crimp in my workflows. WHY are these things allowed to continue for years without being resolved?

I wasn't talking about the specific issue he's reporting in this thread. Rosie said David's above comment was melodramatic, I said that I agreed with David's overall sentiment about Logos 9, MJ said users should have been more vocal about that, I said that they have and that it was unfair to say they hadn't.

Mike Binks:

It may be as David writes 'Stupid' and I wonder with him why this would be so.

I believe David when he says that this affects his work flow although I must admit to be mystified as to how the font used in something so ephemeral as a Pop Up would put a serious block on work accomplished. I guess this is because I am not involved in the work that David is doing.

I took this as David's specific issue reminding him of how frustrated he was about other issues with Logos 9, especially since he added it as a separate post. I was simply echoing and affirming his overall sentiment of frustration about some Logos 9 issues being disruptive to the way he works.

Posts 3947
LogosEmployee
Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 18 2022 2:21 PM

Hi David,

I was able to reproduce this and I've created a bug report.

Posts 5999
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 19 2022 12:20 AM

Kiyah:
I wasn't talking about the specific issue he's reporting in this thread.

Kiyah:
I took this as David's specific issue reminding him of how frustrated he was about other issues with Logos 9,

Kiyah:
When I said "this precise thing" I mean David's comment about Logos 9 being disruptive to his workflow below:

Thanks for the explanation Kiyah – I guess this comes from trying to deal with 'generalities' in what some expect to be a 'technical' environment.

Although Philana seems to have honed in on the specific issue and is ensuring it is given some attention.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 36370
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 19 2022 1:06 AM

Kiyah:
Simply telling them how to use the software as designed

How I see my "job" as an MVP - which may not be how other MVPs' view it:

  • my primary task is to answer questions on how to use Logos/Verbum or, if the user knows how to get what they want, provide them with more efficient or accurate ways to achieve the same results; this must be done at the appropriate skill level of the OP. This also requires that I keep my own skills and knowledge honed and that I cut through the rant to the actual issue.
  • my secondary task is to encourage users to put their suggestions on feedback.faithlife.com, sometimes requiring that I assist them in formulating their suggestion. It is not my job to judge the value of their suggestions - I provide the same help whether I want or don't want the proposed feature/change.
  • my third task is the same as everyone in the forums and is taken from the guidelines: "Please help others follow these guidelines." Because, in the past, Faithlife had to block an individual from harassing me due to my "denomination," I tend to be more sensitive to the mistreatment of the "marginalized" denominations in the users' majority mindset. Often it is simply a case of lack of exposure to the broad range of Christianity reflected in the user base.
  • it is my "job" to complete these tasks without becoming visibly frustrated/impatient with users who don't provide requested information, need to be told three-times before they actually try the suggested solution and find it works, use the forum to vent without checking their facts, . . .
  • it is not my job to be a spiritual director, psychologist, apologist, or punching bag

Kiyah:
from the perspective of a forum MVP

My perspective as an MVP differs from my perspective as a Verbum user only by the obligation to read the majority of posts in the relevant forums e.g. I skip mobile because I do not use it.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 348
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 19 2022 3:42 AM

Thanks, MJ, for doing what you do herein listed.

Thanks for bumping queries.

>>> + thanks to the other folks that help on the fora, as well.

Posts 722
Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 19 2022 4:13 AM

scooter:

Thanks, MJ, for doing what you do herein listed.

Thanks for bumping queries.

>>> + thanks to the other folks that help on the fora, as well.

Yes

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