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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Aug 5 2022 11:18 AM

John 3:16 says

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Do you think the following search queries should find John 3:16? 

  • God WITHIN 10 WORDS world
  • God BEFORE 10 WORDS world

No testing allowed! We want to know what you think should happen, not what does happen.

If you have time to briefly explain your answers, even better. Thanks for your help!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 5 2022 11:52 AM

I assume that the proximity is in the Greek not the English

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):
God WITHIN 10 WORDS world

This should select John 3:16 as God is the second word prior to world.

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):
God BEFORE 10 WORDS world

This should NOT select John 3:16 as there God is only the second word prior to world rather than the required 10.

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 5 2022 1:15 PM

MJ. Smith:
I assume that the proximity is in the Greek not the English

I assume that the proximity is in the English, not the Greek.

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):
God WITHIN 10 WORDS world

Yes. I would treat the opposite response as a BUG.

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):
God BEFORE 10 WORDS world

My original, intuitive, unreflective response was also in the affirmative. Whether it would have been the same if your post gave the two options in the opposite order, I don't know. Your post's design certainly primed me to think of BEFORE as "WITHIN 10 WORDS BEFORE". I would like to see the ability to differentiate between "EXACTLY 10 WORDS BEFORE", "WITHIN 10 WORDS BEFORE", and "8-10 WORDS BEFORE".

“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara

Posts 57
LogosEmployee
Mark Barnes (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 5 2022 2:24 PM

SineNomine:
I would like to see the ability to differentiate between "EXACTLY 10 WORDS BEFORE", "WITHIN 10 WORDS BEFORE", and "8-10 WORDS BEFORE".

This ability already exists. Respectively

  • God BEFORE 10-10 WORDS world
  • God BEFORE 10 WORDS world
  • God BEFORE 8-10 WORDS world
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 5 2022 2:55 PM

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):

Do you think the following search queries should find John 3:16

  • God WITHIN 10 WORDS world
  • God BEFORE 10 WORDS world

Yes - in both cases.

The first because the word God is within 10 words of the word world

The second because the word God is before the word world and the WITHIN constraint still applies.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 5 2022 3:09 PM

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):

John 3:16 says

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Do you think the following search queries should find John 3:16

  1. God WITHIN 10 WORDS world
  2. God BEFORE 10 WORDS world

1. yes. I envision a "window" of 10 words (in each direction) around the word "world", so it would find John 3:16 since "God" falls into that "window" (which I count from 1, so "the" and "that" would match a WITHIN 1 WORDS search, so "God" is a hit for WITHIN 4 WORDS world and every larger number there).

2. this is more difficult. My initial reaction would be to expect precision here, but I'm not fully clear about that interpretation and the exact count where BEFORE begins. I'd lean to "the" being BEFORE 1 WORDS world, so I'd expect God to be a hit for God BEFORE 4 WORDS world - or for God BEFORE 1-10 WORDS world, opening a "window" only to the left. I'd thus understand BEFORE 10 WORDS to be equivalent to BEFORE 10-10 WORDS, not to BEFORE 1-10 WORDS. But people might see this differently.

Additionally, in both cases I would expect 0 to be a valid argument and both a WITHIN 0 WORDS and a BEFORE 0 WORDS to hit in interlinears for the same word at the same position (e.g. something like lemma:kosmos WITHIN 0 WORDS world)

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Posts 134
Bill | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 5 2022 4:21 PM

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):

Do you think the following search queries should find John 3:16

  • God WITHIN 10 WORDS world
  • God BEFORE 10 WORDS world

And the novice says yes to both 

Simpler syntax would be God BEFORE world, but...

Posts 57
LogosEmployee
Mark Barnes (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 5 2022 4:24 PM

Bill:
Simpler syntax would be God BEFORE world, but...

That works too.

Posts 348
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 7 2022 6:28 AM

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):
God WITHIN 10 WORDS world

I would expect 10 words on either side.

Thanks for asking, Mark.

Posts 307
EDUARDO JIMENEZ | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 7 2022 11:41 PM

MJ. Smith:
I would add a template for each label as remembering their parameters is nigh unto impossible.

Hello!

And me, more than frequently, always remember MS Excel style help on writing a function. Logos should emulate this. Something like "Search Builder", that shows the syntax of your search as-you-type. And you always can "call", not a template, but a live search box were you see, in real time, the syntax an the result in a given moment of your search.

Posts 307
EDUARDO JIMENEZ | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 8 2022 12:32 AM

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):
God WITHIN 10 WORDS world

Well, come to think of it, a question arise. Which is the range of those ten words? So, I realize that "Within" means 10 words before God and 10 words after God. And the answer is yes!

Mark Barnes (Faithlife):
God BEFORE 10 WORDS world

In this case, "world" should fall in the next 10 words from God, and in my desk test, it meets the criteria of searching. So the answer is yes as well.

Sorry Mark, I broke your rule. Angel But I can't know what's going on without analyzing it. And since John 3:16 is the most famous text in the Bible, there could be a bias in the answers.

Posts 1055
Richard Wardman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 8 2022 2:58 AM

I would have assumed that both ought to find John 3:16.

"God" is surely found WITHIN 10 WORDS of "world" (whether in Greek or English, and surely in all English translations)

And "God" usually comes BEFORE 10 WORDS of "world" as well.

That would be my amateur guess! 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 8 2022 7:25 AM

I would expect both to work, and would expect it to be based upon the ENGLISH text. I would expect different syntax if GREEK results were desired. 

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 8 2022 12:46 PM

I think God WITHIN 10 WORDS should work. Never have I used BEFORE, so, that I don't know.

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