Systematic Theology for Newbies?

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Posts 376
Dan Sheppard | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 23 2010 6:23 PM

Todd Phillips:

Yes, most of Luther's writings are bound up in the 55 volume set of Luther's Works

Also available is a one-volume summary of his writings: Martin Luther's Basic Theological Writings

The only works that are available individually are Luther's Commentary On Galatians and Martin Luther's 95 Theses

 

Actually, Logos has a plethora of Lutheran information, but one has to know where to look.

I am Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, which has a publisher, Concordia Publishing House.

So do a search in the Logos main search box, for the word, "Concordia" and you will see the numerous resources.

If you are wanting to get just ONE book/resource to see the Lutheran bent on things, see:

http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/triglote

 

This is one example of one item, which is part of a set.  You can buy the set for $449, or individual items as priced.  This one is $34.99

http://www.logos.com/products/details/1748

Just look for "Concordia Electronic Theological Library".  The one item I showed you above, has THREE examples of Lutheran Theology: Robert Kolb, Edward Koehler, and John Mueller.  I consider this the best place for somebody interested in where Luther stood.

 

 

Posts 33257
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 23 2010 6:23 PM

Joseph Newell:
Can any of you recommend a good Systematic Theology for a relatively new Christian?

Start with the classics: Summa Theologica by Thomas Aquinas or Faith of the Early Fathers by William A. Jurgens.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 23 2010 6:37 PM

We've heard from the Baptists, Lutherans, Catholics, Calvinists, and Dispensationalists......come on Rosie I'm sure you got a position, where you at?

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 286
Dr. Charles A. Wootten | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 24 2010 4:32 AM

Joseph Newell:
Can any of you recommend a good Systematic Theology for a relatively new Christian?

I noticed that a great many replies presented superb authors and resources for you, and I use them all from time-to-time as the situation warrants.Someone even recommended Kevin J. Conner's "Foundations of Christian Doctrine." That book is one of the primary texts in our doctrines class. What's too bad is that Conner's material is no where in electronic form! However, most mentioned in these replies are not aimed at a new Christian as such.

For a basic, bottom-line (IMHO) systematic theology text is the mis-named Foundations of Pentecostal Theology ( http://www.logos.com/products/details/2473 ). Duffield and VanCleave wrote this textbook some years back for the Four-Square related Bible College. I'm not a Four-Square member/follower, but I do have great respect for Jack Hayford who, up until recently, was the head honcho of the Four-Square denomination. Again, this book could not have presented the material in a more simpler form.

A random selection from Chapter 1 to indicate its simplicity: (there are other sample pages at the Logos link)

A.      The Two Testaments.
The Bible is divided into two sections known as the Old and the New Testaments. The word “testament” was originally translated “covenant,” and signifies the thought that each is a covenant which God made with His people. There are thirty-nine (39) books in the Old Testament and twenty-seven (27) in the New Testament. An easy way to remember these numbers is to take the number of letters in either “Old Testament” or “New Testament.” In either case you have three and nine letters. Three placed beside nine gives the number of books—39—in the Old Testament, while three multiplied by nine—27—gives the number of books in the New Testament.

Duffield, G. P., & Van Cleave, N. M. (1983). Foundations of Pentecostal theology (6). Los Angeles, Calif.: L.I.F.E. Bible College.

Below is the Table of Contents for your consideration. Unfortunately, the pasting didn't keep the outline format.... Enjoy!

God bless

{charley}

Chapter One
THE DOCTRINE OF THE SCRIPTURES
Bibliology
I.      The names of the Scriptures
A.      The Bible
B.      Other names
II.      The divisions of the Scriptures
A.      The two Testaments
B.      Divisions in the Old Testament
C.      Divisions in the New Testament
D.      Chapters and verses
III.      The writers of the Scriptures
IV.      The canon of the Scriptures
A.      The canon of the Old Testament
B.      The Apocrypha
C.      The canon of the New Testament
D.      Tests used to determine canonicity
V.      The inerrancy of the Scriptures
A.      Definition of inerrancy
B.      The testimony to inerrancy
VI.      The inspiration of the Scriptures
A.      Definition of inspiration
B.      Revelation, inspiration and illumination distinguished
C.      Meaning of inspiration
VII.      The symbols of the Scriptures
A.      Mirror
B.      Critic
C.      Seed
D.      Laver and water
E.      Lamp and light
F.      Fire
G.      Hammer
H.      Sword
I.      Food
VIII.      The Holy Spirit and the Scriptures
IX.      How the Scriptures came to us
A.      Ancient writing materials
B.      A Codex
C.      Ancient writing instruments
D.      Languages used
E.      Manuscripts
F.      Versions
G.      Biblical criticism
H.      Evidences for the Biblical text
X.      The Scriptures in English
A.      The earliest beginnings
B.      John Wycliffe
C.      William Tyndale
D.      Other Sixteenth Century translations
E.      Recent Translations of the English Bible

Chapter Two
THE DOCTRINE OF GOD
Theology
Introduction: The importance of the study of Theology
I.      The knowability of God
A.      Incomprehensible
B.      But knowable
II.      The existence of God
A.      The value of argument for God’s existence
B.      Arguments for God’s existence
III.      The Nature of God (Theism)
A.      God is Spirit (Jn. 4:24)
B.      God is Perfect (Mt. 5:48)
C.      God is Personal
D.      God is ONE (unity) (Dt. 4:35; 6:4)
E.      Erroneous theories about God
IV.      The names of God (Dt. 32)
A.      Elohim, (plural, Gn. 1:1), Eloah, (singular)
B.      Adonai, (plural); Adon (singular)
C.      Jehovah (Ex. 3:13, 14; 6:2, 3)
D.      Ha Tsur, The Rock (Dt. 32:4; Is. 17:10, 26:4, 32:1, 51:1; Ps. 19:14; Mt. 16:18; 1 Cor. 10:1, 3, 4)
E.      Compound names of Jehovah
F.      New Testament names of God
V.      The Attributes of God
A.      Absolute Attributes
B.      Moral Attributes
VI.      The works of God
A.      Divine purpose (Is. 14:26, 27; Eph. 1:11)
B.      Creation (Gn. 1:1)
C.      Providence (Ps. 37:1–3; 1 Cor. 10:13; Acts 4:27–31; Col. 1:15–18)
VII.      The Trinity of God (the doctrine)
A.      Its definition: The Athanasian Creed (Mt. 3:16, 17)
B.      Its scriptural presentation
VIII.      The Persons of the Trinity
A.      God the Father (see above)
B.      God the Son
C.      God the Holy Spirit

Chapter Three
THE DOCTRINE OF MAN
Anthropology
I.      Introduction
A.      Importance of the doctrine
B.      Definitions
C.      Scriptural perspective
II.      Man created by God
A.      Not evolved from lower life forms
B.      Exists by special creation
III.      Man the result of Divine purpose
A.      The council of the Trinity (Gn. 1:26)
B.      The work of God’s creative purpose
IV.      Man created in God’s image
A.      Not a physical image (Is. 6:1; Phil. 2:6; Jn. 5:37)
B.      A personal image (Gn. 1:26–31)
C.      A moral image (Gn. 2:14–17)
D.      A social image (Gn. 1:27, 28)
V.      Man created a living soul (being)
A.      Given a body (earth)
B.      Given an immaterial self (God breathed) (Nm. 16:22)
C.      Becomes a living soul (being) (Gn. 2:7)
VI.      Man’s primitive state or condition
A.      The state of knowledge (Gn. 1:28; 2:19, 20)
B.      The moral state (Gn. 1:31)
C.      The psychological state
D.      The social state (Gn. 2:18, 23, 24)
E.      The occupational state (Gn. 2:15)
F.      The state of life expectancy (Gn. 2:16, 17)
VII.      The Fall of Man
A.      His probation (Gn. 2:16, 17)
B.      His temptation (Gn. 3; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tm. 2:13, 14; 1 Jn. 2:16)
C.      His fallen state (Gn. 3:6; Rom. 5:12; 1 Tm. 2:14)
VIII.      Man’s potential in the state of grace
A.      Christ’s Incarnation and the believer’s new position in Christ (Col. 3:9, 10; 1 Cor. 15:21, 22, 45–49)
B.      The believer a new man in Christ Jesus (Jn. 1:11–13, 2 Cor. 5:17, Eph. 4:24)
C.      The believer’s new nature in Christ (2 Pt. 1:4)
D.      The believer’s new life in Christ (Jn. 5:24; Rom. 6:11, Eph. 2:1–6)
E.      The believer’s constant renewal (2 Cor. 4:16, Rom. 12:1, 2)
F.      The believer’s hope of a heavenly home (2 Tm. 4:18, 1 Pt. 1:4)
G.      The believer’s victory over the old nature (Rom. 6:6–13)
H.      The believer’s authority in Christ’s kingdom (Mt. 16:19, 18:18; Lk. 9:1, 2)

Chapter Four
THE DOCTRINE OF SIN
Hamartiology
Introduction
I.      The problem of sin
A.      The source of sin
B.      The permitting of sin
II.      The origin of sin
A.      In the universe
B.      In the human race
III.      The first human sin
A.      The necessity of probation
B.      The process of temptation, Gn. 3:1–6
C.      The results of Man’s first sin
D.      The curse which the first sin brought
IV.      The nature of sin
A.      The definition of sin
B.      Sin and God’s Law
C.      Scriptural expressions for sin
D.      Sin is evil
E.      The sinful nature of sin
F.      Important considerations regarding sin
V.      The universality of sin
VI.      The imputation of sin
VII.      The relation of original sin and depravity
A.      The meaning of depravity
B.      The results of depravity
VIII.      The guilt from sin
A.      Sin in relation to God
B.      Degrees of guilt
IX.      The penalty of sin
A.      The significance of penalty
B.      The nature of penalty

Chapter Five
THE DOCTRINE OF SALVATION
Soteriology
Introduction
I.      Provisions that have been made
A.      Death of Christ
B.      Resurrection of Jesus Christ
C.      Ascension and Exaltation of Jesus Christ
II.      The application of the provisions
A.      Election
B.      Repentance
C.      Faith
D.      Justification
E.      Regeneration
F.      Adoption
G.      Sanctification
H.      Assurance
I.      The security of the believer

Chapter Six
THE DOCTRINE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
Pneumatology
I.      The Work of the Holy Spirit
A.      In relation to the world in general
B.      In relation to Jesus Christ
C.      In relation to the Christian believer
II.      The Ministry of the Holy Spirit as the Comforter
A.      He is our Teacher—“The Spirit of truth”
B.      He is our Reminder
C.      He is the Revealer of Jesus
D.      He is the Reprover and Convicter of the world
III.      The Fruit of the Spirit
A.      The contrast between the works of the flesh and the Fruit of the Spirit
B.      The secrets of fruitbearing
C.      What does it mean to abide in Christ?
D.      The difference between the Gifts of the Spirit and the Fruit of the Spirit
E.      The relationship between the Gifts of the Spirit and the Fruit of the Spirit
F.      Detailed characteristics of the Fruit of the Spirit
IV.      The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
A.      The name of the experience
B.      What the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is
C.      The purpose and necessity of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit
D.      For whom is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?
E.      Conditions for obtaining the Baptism with the Holy Spirit
F.      How to receive the Baptism with the Holy Spirit
G.      The manner in which the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is received
H.      The evidence and results of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit
I.      Additional fillings with the Holy Spirit
V.      Offences against the Holy Spirit
A.      Offences committed by the unbeliever
B.      Offences committed by a believer
VI.      The Gifts of the Spirit
A.      The background for spiritual gifts
B.      The vocabulary of spiritual gifts
C.      The purpose of spiritual gifts
D.      The gifts enumerated in 1 Corinthians chapter twelve
E.      Special instructions on the gifts of tongues and prophecy
F.      The gifts listed in Romans chapter twelve
G.      The ministry gifts inscribed in Ephesians chapter four
H.      Other probable spiritual gifts
I.      Gifts for special abilities
J.      The relationship between the Gifts and the Fruit of the Spirit

Chapter Seven
THE DOCTRINE OF DIVINE HEALING
I.      The reasonableness of Divine Healing
A.      God is definitely interested in the human body
B.      There is a vital relationship between the soul and spirit of man and his physical body
C.      Man’s needs are twofold
II.      The origin of sickness
A.      Historically
B.      Physiologically
C.      Correctively
III.      The spiritual nature of sickness
A.      Sickness is in the world because of sin
B.      Certain sickness is the result of specific sin
C.      Sickness as a discipline
IV.      Healing and the Will of God
V.      The Scripturalness of Divine Healing
A.      Divine Healing in the Old Testament
B.      Healing in the ministry of Jesus
C.      Healing in the ministry of the disciples
D.      Healing in the Early Church
VI.      Healing through the Church age
VII.      Healing and the Atonement
A.      Atonement was made for healing in the Old Testament
B.      Forgiveness of sins and healing of diseases go hand in hand in the Bible
C.      Redemption from the curse of the Law
D.      Isaiah chapter fifty-three
E.      The Passover and The Lord’s Supper
VIII.      Why Jesus healed the sick
A.      Because of the promises of His Word
B.      In order to reveal His Will
C.      To manifest the Works of God
D.      Because of compassion
E.      Because of faith—not only in His ability, but also His willingness
IX.      Why Christians should seek Divine Healing
A.      Because it is a solemn command
B.      Because of the spiritual blessing it will bring
C.      Because it is glorifying to God
X.      Methods of administering Divine Healing
A.      Pray for yourself
B.      Ask someone else to pray for you
C.      Call for the elders of the church
D.      By laying on of hands
E.      Special miracles through handkerchiefs and aprons
F.      Spiritual gifts of healing
XI.      Why are not all healed?
A.      Some seek healing before salvation
B.      Some seek healing for wrong purposes
C.      Some look to the minister rather than to Christ
D.      Disobedience
E.      Because of some unconfessed sin in the life
F.      Because of unbelief
G.      Failure to stand in faith until the answer comes
XII.      How to retain Divine Healing
A.      Keep in an atmosphere of faith
B.      Keep praising the Lord for what He has done
C.      Keep testifying of what God has done
D.      Feed your faith on the Word of God
E.      Contend in faith for your healing
F.      Walk in obedience to God’s Will—His Word
G.      Start, and continue, service to the Lord
XIII.      Divine Life for the body
XIV.      Answers to objections
A.      The day of miracles is past
B.      Why are many Christians not healed?
C.      Why not also believe in raising the dead, and other miracles promised in Mark 16
D.      Now that medical science is perfected, God expects His people to use medicine for healing
E.      If Divine Healing always worked, no Christian would ever die
F.      There are cases of failure in the New Testament
G.      Divine Healing is taught only by false cults
H.      Divine Healing puts more emphasis upon the body than upon the soul
I.      If God created herbs and drugs, does He not expect man to use them for healing?
J.      The miracles recorded in Matthew 8:16, 17 completely fulfilled the prophecy of physical healing in Isaiah 53:4–5
K.      If healing is in the Atonement, Christians who are sick must conclude that they are sinners
L.      Failure by many to receive healing weakens the faith of the whole Church

Chapter Eight
THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH
Ecclesiology
I.      “Church”—its meanings
A.      Kuriakon
B.      Ekklesia
II.      Uses of the term “church” in the New Testament
A.      The universal Church
B.      The local church
C.      House churches
D.      The collective Church
E.      The churches acting in concert
III.      Uses of the term “church” not found in the New Testament
A.      Not used of a building
B.      Not used for a denomination
IV.      The officers, ministers & leaders of the Church
A.      Apostles
B.      Prophets
C.      Evangelists
D.      Pastors
E.      Teachers
F.      Elders, presbyters
G.      Bishops, overseers
H.      Deacons
I.      Ministers
J.      Leaders, rulers
V.      The mission of the Church
A.      Preaching and teaching
B.      Discipleship
C.      Fellowship
D.      Worship
E.      Missions and Evangelism
F.      Maturity of the believer
G.      Ministry in the home
H.      Ministry to material needs
VI.      The ordinances of the Church
A.      Water Baptism
B.      The Lord’s Supper
VII.      The Church as the Body of Christ
A.      Vital relationship to the Head
B.      Unity of the Body
C.      Importance of each member in the Body
D.      Submission in the Body
E.      The Body of Christ and the local church
F.      Body ministry
VIII.      The Church and the kingdom of God
A.      The meaning of the word “kingdom”
B.      Is the kingdom of God present or future?
C.      Is the kingdom inward and spiritual, or outwardly visible?
D.      Are the Church and the kingdom of God identical?
E.      Is the kingdom of heaven different from the kingdom of God?
IX.      Other metaphors of the Church
A.      The Church as the Lord’s family
B.      The Church as a fellowship of believers
C.      The Church as a team of athletes
D.      The Church as the Lord’s army
E.      The Church as the Lord’s flock
F.      The Church as the Lord’s school
G.      The Church as a servant or steward
H.      The Church as a building
I.      The Church as a mystery
J.      The Church as the Lord’s field
K.      The Church as a royal priesthood
L.      The Church as the bride of Christ
M.      The Church as the Lord’s embassy
N.      The Church as the pillar and ground of truth
O.      The Church as the Lord’s sanctuary
P.      The Church as pilgrims
Q.      The Church as the way
R.      The Church as the Lord’s inheritance
S.      The Church as the Lord’s masterpiece
T.      The Church as the light of the world
U.      The Church as the salt of the earth
V.      The Church as the Lord’s fishery
W.      The Church as a crucible
X.      The Church as the wild olive branch

Chapter Nine
THE DOCTRINE OF ANGELS
Angelology
I.      Angelology
A.      Definition
B.      The origin of angels
C.      The nature of angels
D.      The classifications and organization of angels
II.      Demonology
A.      The reality of demons
B.      The origin of demons
C.      The nature of demons
D.      The purpose of demons
E.      The activities of demons
F.      Demon possession
III.      Satanology
A.      Importance of this doctrine
B.      The reality of his existence
C.      His personality
D.      His origin
E.      His character
F.      His names and titles
G.      His Defeat
H.      His Destiny
I.      The believer’s course of action regarding Satan

Chapter Ten
THE DOCTRINE OF LAST THINGS
Eschatology
Introduction
I.      Death
A.      Physical death
B.      Spiritual death
C.      Eternal death
II.      The Intermediate State
A.      Of the wicked
B.      Of the righteous
C.      False views of the intermediate state
III.      The Second Coming of Christ
A.      The importance of His Coming
B.      The nature of His Coming
C.      The time of His Coming
D.      The signs of His Coming
E.      The Rapture of the Church
F.      The Revelation
IV.      The Tribulation
A.      The word “tribulation” in Scripture
B.      Daniel’s dream and vision
C.      Principal events of the Tribulation
V.      The Antichrist
A.      The word “antichrist” in Scripture
B.      The identity of the Antichrist
C.      The titles of the Antichrist
D.      The works of the Antichrist
VI.      The Resurrection
A.      The fact of the Resurrection
B.      The nature of the Resurrection
C.      The time of the Resurrection
VII.      The Millennium
A.      Its relation to the Second Coming
B.      Its relation to Israel
C.      Its relation to the nations
D.      Its relation to the Church
E.      Life and conditions on earth
VIII.      The Judgments
A.      Of the believers
B.      Of the Gentile nations
C.      Of national Israel
D.      Of the wicked dead
E.      Of Satan and the fallen angels
IX.      The Final Destinies
A.      The future destiny of the unrighteous
B.      The final destiny of Satan, the fallen angels, and the Antichrist
C.      The future state of the righteous


Duffield, G. P., & Van Cleave, N. M. (1983). Foundations of Pentecostal theology (xvi–xxviii). Los Angeles, Calif.: L.I.F.E. Bible College.

running Logos Bible Software 6.0a: Collector's Edition on HP e9220y (AMD Phenom II X4 2.60GHz 8.00GB 64-bit Win 7 Pro SP1) & iPad (mini) apps.

Posts 133
jwsheets | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 24 2010 5:07 AM

I have them all :-) but Oden's and Grudem's are by far my fav's.

Posts 133
jwsheets | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 24 2010 5:10 AM

A non-cessationist is a believer (?) who explains away why what was normal (and necessary) for the first century is abnormal and unnecessary for everyone else. They have a doctrinal infastructure that explains why the plain meaning of Scripture isn't applicable to modern believers. A non-believing believer? :-)

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 24 2010 5:27 AM

MJ. Smith:

Stephen Edward Paynter:
supralapsarian

Stephen Edward Paynter:
infralapsarian

Stephen Edward Paynter:
non-cessationist

Okay, this is clearly a foreign language to me. Big Smile Could you save me some time and give me a clue of what positions these words imply?

You've gotten a few of these MJ. but I've found that Millard Erickson has a great little dictionary of Theological terms (The Concise Dictionary of Christian Theology (Revised Edition)) which helps in a pinch and thus:

Supralapsarianism  The view that the decrees of God occurred (logically) in the following order: (1) to save some humans and condemn others; (2) to create both the elect and the reprobate; (3) to permit the fall of all humans; (4) to provide salvation only for the elect. (p193.)

Infralapsarianism  A form of Calvinism that teaches that the decree of the Fall logically preceded that of election. The order of God’s decrees, then, is: (1) to create human beings; (2) to permit the Fall; (3)  to save some and condemn others; and (4) to provide salvation only for the elect. (Millard J. Erickson, The Concise Dictionary of Christian Theology, Rev. ed., 1st Crossway ed. (Wheaton, Ill.: Crossway Books, 2001), 102.)

You got non-cessationist earlier so .. hope this helps.

 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 40
Joe Newell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 24 2010 6:08 AM

UPDATE:

First, let me give thanks.  The generous sharing on this forum makes me feel even more blessed to have joined God's family.  As much as I've always enjoyed reading, there is nothing so exciting as combining reading with scholarship on Christian matters!

Yesterday, as I posted in another forum here, I went ahead and upgraded to Scholar's Platinum.  It certainly wasn't just to access more Theology texts, but rather to acknowledge that the sum of resources available in that package is enormous.

I also invested in the 24-volume John Piper library.  He is someone who I value quite a bit already, as does my lifelong friend who is helping my Walk, and I couldn't resist.  Logos pre-pub is something I intend to fully explore when I have recovered from these purchases.

I also ordered Culver's Systematic Theology in new, printed form for $18 (shipped!) from a seller partnered with Amazon,  And it turns out that the Grudem book/church class that I referenced in my original post is beginning in September, so I will be busy soon!

Again, I appreciate those of you with obvious deep experience reaching out to help a newbie decide among confusing options.  May God richly reward each of our journeys into His Word.

Posts 33257
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 24 2010 8:47 PM

Thomas Black:
You got non-cessationist earlier so .. hope this helps.

It's a good start ... and tells me that my non-comprehension starts at a more basic level - where I won't say to avoid a theological discussion.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 205
Stephen Paynter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 24 2010 11:51 PM

jwsheets:

A non-cessationist is a believer (?) who explains away why what was normal (and necessary) for the first century is abnormal and unnecessary for everyone else. They have a doctrinal infastructure that explains why the plain meaning of Scripture isn't applicable to modern believers. A non-believing believer? :-)

Er ... not sure I recognise myself from this description. Are  you sure you are not talking about cessationists? Even if you were, it doesn't read to me as being as generous as I would wish to be to their position - but I may have mis-understood what you are saying.

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 25 2010 2:22 AM

MJ. Smith:

Thomas Black:
You got non-cessationist earlier so .. hope this helps.

It's a good start ... and tells me that my non-comprehension starts at a more basic level - where I won't say to avoid a theological discussion.

I was a bit confused by the earlier explanation of non-cessationist too. Basically cessationalists believe the sign gifts (tongues, healing, interpretations, etc.) ceased being given at some point in the past, usually with the completion of the NT. non-cessationists believe they continue being given today.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 25 2010 8:19 AM

Thanks for the clarity Philip.  I didn't read the earlier post close enough.  I call it "skimming".  LOL

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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