Library.Logos.com - How sad!

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Robert Herbon | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Aug 27 2010 8:18 PM

I think that it is unfortunate that even non-customers who HAPPEN to own an iPhone have better access (FREE ACCESS!!!!) to Logos library material than PAYING CUSTOMERS who just do NOT happen to own an iPhone.

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doc | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 27 2010 8:27 PM

Robert Herbon:

I think that it is unfortunate that even non-customers who HAPPEN to own an iPhone have better access (FREE ACCESS!!!!) to Logos library material than PAYING CUSTOMERS who just do NOT happen to own an iPhone.

 

Biblia.com is coming... read latest post on logos blog.

 

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 27 2010 8:36 PM

Robert Herbon:

I think that it is unfortunate that even non-customers who HAPPEN to own an iPhone have better access (FREE ACCESS!!!!) to Logos library material than PAYING CUSTOMERS who just do NOT happen to own an iPhone.

What's sad about that?  You got what you paid for, right?  Plus you get access to library.logos.com for no added fee--and it will be enhanced in the future.  Why begrudge the iPhone owners?

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Anonymous | | Replied: Fri, Aug 27 2010 11:35 PM

No, we haven't go what we paid for. Not until the promised features still absent have been included.

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Timothy Ha | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 28 2010 1:42 AM

I'd rather have a plain text library.logos.com as it is right now, because rich-interface biblia.com is already there.

For a non-iPhone mobile device library.logos.com is enough for reading. Developing a full-featured application for each platform would take forever for Logos, I guess.

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 28 2010 1:58 AM

Sandy Turnbull:

No, we haven't go what we paid for. Not until the promised features still absent have been included.

Hmm... I always thought we paid just for the resources. Logos engine for any platform is free. I have my resources on Windows PC and on iPhone. I do not have them on MAC Book because I do not own one. Looks clear to me. Regarding the features, any new feature we get is nice but it is not that Logos is producing them because we paid for them.

Bohuslav

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Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 28 2010 2:33 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Hmm... I always thought we paid just for the resources. Logos engine for any platform is free. I have my resources on Windows PC and on iPhone. I do not have them on MAC Book because I do not own one. Looks clear to me. Regarding the features, any new feature we get is nice but it is not that Logos is producing them because we paid for them.

The problem with that argument is that, if true, LOGOS is under no obligation to produce or provide any kind of reader.  They will continue to give us what we pay for, books; but, since we do not pay for a reader, they are under no obligation to provide one or to improve on the one they have.  We may not pay for the reader through an invoice, but don't believe that the reader is free - it is paid for with the cost of the books we purchase.

Of course that means that those of us who purchase a great many books pay more for the reader than the user who only buys a single book or two.

 

Blessings,
Floyd

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Anonymous | | Replied: Sat, Aug 28 2010 6:13 AM

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 28 2010 6:36 AM

Sandy Turnbull:

No, we haven't go what we paid for. Not until the promised features still absent have been included.

This thread is about iPhone/Mobile Web.  Non-iPhone access was never promised (or paid for), but has been graciously given.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 28 2010 8:38 AM

Floyd Johnson:
They will continue to give us what we pay for, books; but, since we do not pay for a reader, they are under no obligation to provide one or to improve on the one they have.  We may not pay for the reader through an invoice, but don't believe that the reader is free - it is paid for with the cost of the books we purchase.

When I bought Libronix 3.0 Scholar Silver a few years back,  Logos forgot to send me the free desktop to run it on.  Wink



When you order these cherries they are delivered in a box. I can claim you are only paying for the contents in the box. You can prove me wrong by asking I send you an empty box free of charge. (I'd refuse.) However, Logos really does allow people to download the basic search engine for free. They also really do provide online access to many books for free. That is the crux of the original poster's complaint. (I guess the OP would prefer nobody else be blessed for "free.") Matt 20:15

The inconsistency comes with the idea Logos is short changing me because not all features are present before Logos releases another project they have been simultaneously working on. It is a little like a combat triage decision. My Navy corpsman son is trained to quickly survey the wounded Marines on the battlefield. If one soldier has catastrophic injuries that are likely to be fatal in the next few minutes, and the next soldier has serious (but treatable) wounds, guess which one he works on.

Now Logos is not making life & death judgment calls here. And I am not saying the finessing of Logos 4's features is a hopeless cause. But I would not hold back on the progress in the iPhone app, Biblia.com, Pre-Pubs or development of academic resources to wait on the completion of PBBs, Hebrew pronunciation add-in, or whatever. Also, I would not reassign all the wonderful people in the sales & service departments to join the Mac coders to "help" get that project finished quicker. (On second thought, they could guard the Mac machines at night.) http://blog.logos.com/mt-cgi/mt-search.cgi?search=robbery&IncludeBlogs=1&limit=20

God outlines the building of a "house" in Psalm 127. It is a progressive development. You go from verse 1 to eventually reach verse 7. Just because we don't presently see the results in verse 7 does not mean God is not in the process of fulfilling it.  We may be impatient with the timing but it does not mean it will not come to pass. Likewise, with the :house" of Logos.

interesting side note: Several versions say "They" will not be ashamed, several versions say "He" will not be ashamed. For the sake of my example it does not matter which rendering you feel is correct. But for personal application it certainly does make a difference. This may be worth your while to study in Logos.

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Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 28 2010 9:42 AM

Nothing's changed - I could send you the empty box.  You could refuse it.  (Don't worry, I won't.)  But that is beside the point.  The box, whether I send it or not, is paid for by those who by cherries.  When you get the box, whether filled with cherries or not, it was paid for by those who purchased cherries.  

LOGOS is not free - someone paid for the creation of it.  It was those of us who purchased books.  A certain percentage of each book has to go to creating the software, improving the software, and preparing for the next iteration of the software (LOGOS 5, anyone?).  The more books you buy, the more you have paid for the software - implicitly, if not explicitly.  The same is true for the web pages, the forums, the support (also FREE?), etc.    

This is not necessarily a bad thing - but true none-the-less.  

And LOGOS is free to decide what products to create with the dollars we spend.  If they wanted to create a product for the Commodore 64 (see http://bit.ly/Comm-64), they could.  But do not forget who is paying for it - those of us who buy books.  The things LOGOS supplies FREE are not free - buy are paid for by LOGOS' customers.

Blessings,
Floyd

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 28 2010 10:08 AM

Floyd Johnson:

LOGOS is not free - someone paid for the creation of it.  It was those of us who purchased books.  A certain percentage of each book has to go to creating the software, improving the software, and preparing for the next iteration of the software (LOGOS 5, anyone?).  The more books you buy, the more you have paid for the software - implicitly, if not explicitly.  The same is true for the web pages, the forums, the support (also FREE?), etc.    

This is not necessarily a bad thing - but true none-the-less.  

You are 100% right Floyd.  I even view the Logos PC user base as underwriting the Logos for Mac development to a degree. And I have no problem with my church spending money on orphans and widows that was dropped in the offering plate by young workers and affluent others.

I understand the frustration of having your favorite features pushed back another quarter on the waiting list. Many have waited a long time for the Hebrew Pronunciation add-in. Even more want desperately to get PBB capabilities in Logos 4.

Nobody is kidding us. If Logos did not make money they would not be able to offer anything "free."

 

 

 

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Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 28 2010 10:40 AM

Sandy Turnbull:

No, we haven't go what we paid for. Not until the promised features still absent have been included.

I started to reply, but cannot tell if you are joking or not.

You ARE joking, right?

Jerry

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 28 2010 12:25 PM

Sandy Turnbull:

No, we haven't go what we paid for. Not until the promised features still absent have been included.

In one sense you are correct, Sandy - there are promises still to be kept. I think of it as a bit like a major highway project - it often is not finished on time despite the best intentions of the construction crew. The one that comes to mind is on I84 where unmapped springs made westbound lanes unstable. However, eastbound traffic used the new road while westbound waited. L4 was released with only eastbound traffic; however, we've been promised westbound traffic and know that it is coming. Meanwhile, the construction crew continues to work on access roads.

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Ray D | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 3:09 AM

I read over and over again in the forums about how we as paying customers of Logos should be thankful for all the FREE stuff they provide. With all due respect, none of it is free in my humble opinion (maybe I am wrong though, I am beginning to wonder Big Smile).

Here is my thought. Many of us have made recent and significant investments in Logos resources based upon their marketing strategy. Which very much send this message... "Bible Study Anywhere". That's why I have personally invested in Logos this past year - I like the direction where they are heading because having access to my resources at home and on the go is very important to me. So, I guess in short what I am saying is this. Because of the marketing messages (primarily the website) I view my investment in Logos as a investment in a suite of Bible software (PC, Web, iPhone, iPad) to access my resources "anywhere". Having said all that, I very much appreciate Logos and am thankful for the company and the products they offer.

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doc | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2010 3:39 AM

Ray D:
I read over and over again in the forums about how we as paying customers of Logos should be thankful for all the FREE stuff they provide. With all due respect, none of it is free in my humble opinion

As they say Ray there is no free lunch, ultimately we do pay for it in the cost of resources.  Logos though thankfully don't use the 'Wait but there's more, you also get a free set of Steak Knives' approach to marketing.......

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Ray D | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 8 2010 12:35 PM

Ray D:

I read over and over again in the forums about how we as paying customers of Logos should be thankful for all the FREE stuff they provide. With all due respect, none of it is free in my humble opinion (maybe I am wrong though, I am beginning to wonder Big Smile).

Here is my thought. Many of us have made recent and significant investments in Logos resources based upon their marketing strategy. Which very much send this message... "Bible Study Anywhere". That's why I have personally invested in Logos this past year - I like the direction where they are heading because having access to my resources at home and on the go is very important to me. So, I guess in short what I am saying is this. Because of the marketing messages (primarily the website) I view my investment in Logos as a investment in a suite of Bible software (PC, Web, iPhone, iPad) to access my resources "anywhere". Having said all that, I very much appreciate Logos and am thankful for the company and the products they offer.

Check out this post from the Logos Mac forum. Confirms much more concisely what I was trying to articulate in the above. http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22659/169242.aspx#169242

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 8 2010 2:55 PM

Ray D:
I read over and over again in the forums about how we as paying customers of Logos should be thankful for all the FREE stuff they provide. With all due respect, none of it is free in my humble opinion (maybe I am wrong though, I am beginning to wonder Big Smile).

I didn't really differentiate between what I got for free and what I paid for when I decided to go all-out Logos. I took it as a package deal. Every now and then Logos treats me to stuff that was never negotiated, expected or earned on my part. I still have not sprung for an iPad, iPhone or other mobile device (I do carry a netbook around.)

Ray D:
Confirms much more concisely what I was trying to articulate in the above. http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22659/169242.aspx#169242

I LIKE what this post articulates. If I ever am pulled across the line to the dark side, I can take my Logos library with me. I will be considering switching to a Mac next upgrade.

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