A new type of pre-pub - it isn't in print yet!

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Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2010 7:51 AM

Rosie Perera:

Thomas Black:
Dan Pritchett:
I know for a fact that some of the authors of this series are actually using our software and actively reading our forums right now.
Hi!  I'd like to invite the authors to let us hear a little of their excitement too.   

Likewise. And I hope the authors that are reading the forums are learning all kinds of awesome things they can do with Logos that will help them in their efforts. For example, someone recently just asked about using visual filters to color all the Eissfeldt sources and I answered. While that might not be something contemporary scholarship is still doing massive amounts of work with, it still might come in handy for a commentary author.

I think a link correction Rosie: Old School VF with AFAT! - < http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22549/168234.aspx#168234 >

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 439
Mathew Haferkamp | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2010 9:34 AM

From what has been stated about this product on this thread, I would think that they believe this is going to be all that they have said and more.  For the reason I believe the costs involved in this are going to demand sells during the project are essential, and that is after some have been released.  I would imagine to just break even.

Posts 19262
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2010 12:17 PM

Thomas Black:

Rosie Perera:

Thomas Black:
Dan Pritchett:
I know for a fact that some of the authors of this series are actually using our software and actively reading our forums right now.
Hi!  I'd like to invite the authors to let us hear a little of their excitement too.   

Likewise. And I hope the authors that are reading the forums are learning all kinds of awesome things they can do with Logos that will help them in their efforts. For example, someone recently just asked about using visual filters to color all the Eissfeldt sources and I answered. While that might not be something contemporary scholarship is still doing massive amounts of work with, it still might come in handy for a commentary author.

I think a link correction Rosie: Old School VF with AFAT! - < http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22549/168234.aspx#168234 >

Whoops! Right you are. I had something completely unrelated still in my clipboard and just pasted that without verifying it. Sorry. Embarrassed

Posts 116
Chris Thompson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2010 2:49 PM

I posted this in the other thread...but I think it is applicable hereSmile

 

Abi Gail:

Rosie Perera:
Think I should stop now, and check into a 12-step program?

There is enough evidence to at least open such a debate.

...But First...Don't you think we should petition Logos to produce a collection of Christian 12 step books?

 

 

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 5:08 AM

Matthew C Jones:
Buying the car, you get to drive the whole thing home on purchase day.Automobile

We are used to paying the full price up front for many things. In fact, maybe most things we normally buy.

Thinking of a new SUV for US$50,000 ... and then going on a road-trip the next weekend. That trip just cost $50K, and then the SUV is free for the new 2-3 years until you sell it or whatever.

With this new resource, the first book will cost US$700, and the rest are free. Same thing in a way ...

Posts 5806
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:25 AM

JimT:

Matthew C Jones:
Buying the car, you get to drive the whole thing home on purchase day.Automobile

We are used to paying the full price up front for many things. In fact, maybe most things we normally buy.

Thinking of a new SUV for US$50,000 ... and then going on a road-trip the next weekend. That trip just cost $50K, and then the SUV is free for the new 2-3 years until you sell it or whatever.

With this new resource, the first book will cost US$700, and the rest are free. Same thing in a way ...

A new car every 2-3 years.. I wish...

... somehow I don't see it quite the same way when I buy the new (or in my case second hand car) i get all the parts straight away I don't have to wait up to ten years down the track with some parts still not decided upon who is going to make them.....

 

Posts 30
williamvarner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:51 AM

I am a contributor to the EEC. I think that it is more than just another commentary - there are plenty of series going right now - because Logos is sponsoring it and because they have the resources not only to produce a unique format (digital and print) but also because they are respected and have real marketing muscle.

I have been with Logos from its beginning (2  51/4 floppies mailed to me home to test it!)  when it began as an English Bible program. When it became obvious that other premier Bible programs were directed to a more scholarly clientèle, Logos made the decision, hired the people, spent the money, and developed the resources - and now they are situated to also be THE program for scholars on the PC, AND they are emerging into the Mac Market with a quality product.

There is a danger in announcing some major project before the first volume is finished, but it is also a good strategy, at least for me. This publicly commits both Logos and me to produce the product. It puts me under obligation to finish - and do it well!  To have my due date now made public adds to the "pressure" that many of us need to complete the project. We don't want to be publicly embarrassed!  Now most scholars won't express it that way, but I will be bold enough to do it, and I thank Logos for doing it this way. Yes, there is always the possibility of egg on our face, but we all know that most of us work better under a deadline.

As for the remuneration - people need to know that academic publishing usually pays authors NOTHING!  Logos has been fair to us. I already have Platinum, and I don't know where I would put all the smaller resources in Portfolio anyway. I am being adequately compensated.

Questions will remain, of course. No process is ideal and perfect. But the professionalism that marks Logos has been obvious to us.

Posts 5573
Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 7:51 AM

Andrew McKenzie:
... somehow I don't see it quite the same way when I buy the new (or in my case second hand car) i get all the parts straight away I don't have to wait up to ten years down the track with some parts still not decided upon who is going to make them.....

Please note that the current pre-pub option for this series is not the only option Logos will have. But it will be the most cost-effective; that's the benefit of going all-in on the ground floor.

If you look above to Dan Pritchett's last post you'll read this:

Dan Pritchett:
We will definitely have an option for a special type of payment plan. We don't have the technical specs in place to even offer a payment plan on Pre-Pubs right now, and we don't think this will necessarily fall into even the normal payment plan style. In other words, no matter what happens, it will most likely all be handled on a personal interaction level, with a range of options for the best way to handle it for each customers' unique situation and preferences.

So other payment options are coming. They just haven't worked out how to do it yet. It will likely cost more than the current option, but with less risk and an extended payment option, I expect this to put the series cost to the buyer at around or above 1/2 the suggested retail price of the series (SRP is about $2200), instead of the ridiculously low $700. (BTW, I have no inside information about what the price for a payment plan option might be. I'm just making a guess based on what I think Logos would do.)

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 19262
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 8:18 AM

William Varner:
I am a contributor to the EEC.

Great to hear from you, William! I am looking forward to the EEC, and I hope that using Logos Platinum ends up being a real benefit to you as you work on your volume.

Posts 2
Teresa | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 10:46 AM

 

Mike Pettit:
I would like the "why" question clearly answered, why do we need a new commentary set? What will it add to what is already available and why will it add value?
EDIT I agree with you Mike.  Why do I need a new commentary set and what is different about it than the others? I never bought a new car I didn't test drive first no matter how trustworthy the sales man. And I am saving my money for the TDOT which will be a must have and when it comes out, (whenever that is), I want to be ready.
Posts 421
Scott S | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 11:45 AM

William Varner:
I am a contributor to the EEC.

Dr. Varner, I'm so pleased that you posted, I hope other contributors do also.

William Varner:
As for the remuneration - people need to know that academic publishing usually pays authors NOTHING!

Wow. I had no idea . . .

Posts 1359
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 12:19 PM

William Varner:

I am a contributor to the EEC. I think that it is more than just another commentary - there are plenty of series going right now - because Logos is sponsoring it and because they have the resources not only to produce a unique format (digital and print) but also because they are respected and have real marketing muscle.

I have been with Logos from its beginning (2  51/4 floppies mailed to me home to test it!)  when it began as an English Bible program. When it became obvious that other premier Bible programs were directed to a more scholarly clientèle, Logos made the decision, hired the people, spent the money, and developed the resources - and now they are situated to also be THE program for scholars on the PC, AND they are emerging into the Mac Market with a quality product.

There is a danger in announcing some major project before the first volume is finished, but it is also a good strategy, at least for me. This publicly commits both Logos and me to produce the product. It puts me under obligation to finish - and do it well!  To have my due date now made public adds to the "pressure" that many of us need to complete the project. We don't want to be publicly embarrassed!  Now most scholars won't express it that way, but I will be bold enough to do it, and I thank Logos for doing it this way. Yes, there is always the possibility of egg on our face, but we all know that most of us work better under a deadline.

As for the remuneration - people need to know that academic publishing usually pays authors NOTHING!  Logos has been fair to us. I already have Platinum, and I don't know where I would put all the smaller resources in Portfolio anyway. I am being adequately compensated.

Questions will remain, of course. No process is ideal and perfect. But the professionalism that marks Logos has been obvious to us.

Welcome to the forum!

Glad to know that you are a veteran of Logos users. What additional capabilities will the EEC have because it is built on the Logos format?

I'm sure that Logos users would be interested in any insights that you might share concerning the unique place that the EEC will have among commentaries that seem to have a similar purpose (ZEC and BEC to mention some in progress).

I was surprised to hear that academic publishing normally provides no pay. I assumed that supplemented your normal academci pay (which I'm sure is not extravagant).

Posts 5806
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 1:13 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
Please note that the current pre-pub option for this series is not the only option Logos will have. But it will be the most cost-effective; that's the benefit of going all-in on the ground floor.

Yeap I have noted that Richard.  Just find people (not only JimT) are scrambling to come up with analogies that really don't describe the situation at all.

JimT I appreciate you, just not the analogy in this case.

Posts 5806
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 1:23 PM

William Varner:
As for the remuneration - people need to know that academic publishing usually pays authors NOTHING!

Thanks for chipping in Dr Varner, and I an not surprised by that at all by your statement.  

 As we all wrestle with this, and what is appropriate for each of our own individual circumstances please be aware that we do appreciate the work you and your fellow authors are putting into this series and we do want to see it a success. So take our discussion of this issue an indication of the fact that we want to all be able to support this project, we're just trying to figure out how.

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 2:06 PM

I am really excited about the project and I am in. Payments plan would be great Yes

Bohuslav

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 3:16 PM

My current payment plan is:

Sept 1, 2010 -> Apr. 1, 2011 = 7 months

7 months / $700 = $100 / month

Deposit in old coffee can until first book arrives!

Posts 5573
Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 4:00 PM

William Varner:
I am a contributor to the EEC.

Welcome to the forums Dr. Varner!

I went to the EEC web site and took a look at which volume you're working on, and your bio & picture. James, huh? Not sure what it would be like to not only teach on 3:1 (& ff), but teach others how to teach on it. Scary. Of course, I would never presume to teach on that passage (cough, cough). Wink

What you wrote above was also interesting to me. I did not know that academic authors often don't get paid for their work. That's just not right. I'm sure Logos will continue to be fair with you.

I do look forward to hearing more about the series.

Thanks for chiming in. Please keep us updated, as much as you are able.

EDIT: BTW, I'm really curious to read what you have to say about James 5:15's use of euche, as the only NT use of that word translated 'prayer.' I don't find a discussion on that use of euche that I've found satisfying (elsewhere in the NT euche is translated 'vow'). As a Logos user who regularly does word-studies, I'm intensely curious about things like this. Most commentaries either ignore or pass over the unique translation here. Anyway, no need to answer the question here and now, as I'm willing to wait until Sept. 2012, and look up your definitive commentary on that passage.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 4:11 PM

When Dr. Varner says "academic publishing" I assume it includes scholarly journals and magazines where there is some incentive/demand from a Seminary/University to be published.  This is an interesting subject though!

Posts 30
williamvarner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 8:49 PM

Yes, I meant MOST academic journals but magazines usually offer a stipend. I am referring to those primarily academic publishers, especially the European ones (Brill, Peter Lang, TandT Clark, etc.). In America you have Mellen Press, Unversity Press of America, etc. They sometimes pay you a pittance once your sales reach to a certain level (lots of luck on that one among academic books!).  Zondervan Academic and Baker Academic may be different. However, when I co-authored with Zondervan, they paid me an initial  lump sum - not to retire on! - but no royalties afterward on the sales. They make the bucks, not their authors. Zondervan and Tyndale, for example, made mega-millions on their prophecy novels and Christian self help books, but didn't always share the wealth with their other authors. Perhaps I am airing some dirty laundry here about some publishers. The key thing to remember is: If you want to make dough as an author, do what one publisher told me. Write to answer a felt need question that a lady wants answered when she comes into a Christian book store. "How do I ...?"

Profs are used to this academic issue and know that any published book looks good on their c.v., but for many articles and books, that's all it is.

Hey, the word and the Word does get out! Who is complaining? WE ARE NOT IN THIS FOR MONEY! Well, the prophecy mongers are, but maybe someone will still get saved as the authors are headed to the bank with their dough!  I just meant to say that Logos is an exception to the GENERAL rule in publishing, both academic and otherwise.

Will

 

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2010 9:16 PM

Andrew McKenzie:

Yeap I have noted that Richard.  Just find people (not only JimT) are scrambling to come up with analogies that really don't describe the situation at all.

JimT I appreciate you, just not the analogy in this case.

Hi Andrew.

Its OK - I'm not even sure if I agree with myself on the new-car story. I was attempting to convince myself why it was OK for me to commit to his project to the tune of US$700. I could get WBC or any number of other things for that kind of money. My last dentist bill was for more than EEC will be, and so was my eye-glasses. My new suit last week cost about 2/3 of EEC. Its just money ...

I think I want to believe that this will be something special, and that there will be some rewards. I hope, some to myself (a great commentary set), but to others too. I already have some commentaries that say something like: "In these verses, Paul writes to encourage Timothy". Its no surprise that I find little or no worth in such a comment, and that I seek more. If someone eats and sleeps a given book of the Bible, and has been doing so for the last 20,30,40 years then I hope they have something to say that is worth me reading about.

My pre-order is in, so now I need to trust God that I will find employment in time to be able to pay for the set in April 2011.

Me saying goodbye to a new SUV, and hello to more of the things that build treasure in heaven ... AutomobileAutomobileAutomobile

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