"Ignorance is bliss!" Hardly!!!!!

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Sep 28 2010 7:37 PM

Logos Brothers and Sisters, Peace to you!  *smile*

Of course ignorance is not bliss ... 

Adjective

  • S: (adj) ignorant, nescient, unlearned, unlettered (uneducated in general; lacking knowledge or sophistication) "an ignorant man"; "nescient of contemporary literature"; "an unlearned group incapable of understanding complex issues"; "exhibiting contempt for his unlettered companions"
  • S: (adj) ignorant, illiterate (uneducated in the fundamentals of a given art or branch of learning; lacking knowledge of a specific field) "she is ignorant of quantum mechanics"; "he is musically illiterate"
  • S: (adj) ignorant, unknowledgeable, unknowing, unwitting (unaware because of a lack of relevant information or knowledge) "he was completely ignorant of the circumstances"; "an unknowledgeable assistant"; "his rudeness was unwitting"

Not blissful!    Not good spiritually either, eh?  St. Paul wrote in 1 Thes. 4.13

 

       So!  I  use all my Logos resources to help me fill gaps in my ignorance.  Have been learning all my life, and still have a long, long way to go!  *smile*

Today, I found an interesting "clip" from Cyberbrethren in which you might be interested.  Included is a test on "religion," whatever that is.  Took it and expected to score 100% and am a bit irritated that I actually missed one.  Not bad, but ...

Anyway, enjoy!   *smile*  I am not an American, and Logosites from around the world may - or may not be - quite as interested in the article as I was!  Blessings to all!

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. (NKJV)

 

Excellent article for you to consider reading.....

Blissfully Ignorant Protestants and Catholics.


http://cyberbrethren.com/2010/09/28/blissfully-ignorant-protestants-and-catholics/

Source: cyberbrethren.com

 
    

 

 

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 28 2010 11:44 PM

Great fun - thank you.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 12:46 AM

Milford Charles Murray:
Anyway, enjoy!   *smile*  I am not an American, and Logosites from around the world may - or may not be - quite as interested in the article as I was!  Blessings to all!

Thank you Milford Charles Murray. I took the test and scored as well as an Agnostic/Mormon/Jewish/Atheist with a graduate degree!

Surprise  Now before everyone assumes I flunked the quiz, go try it yourself and check your score against the demographics following the quiz.

Great fun indeed.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 4:05 AM

Milford Charles Murray:
Excellent article for you to consider reading.....

Blissfully Ignorant Protestants and Catholics.

Thank you Milford. Very interesting article—and test.

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Nancy A. Almodovar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 5:43 AM

I blame the pastors for not teaching doctrine from the pulpit but instead prefer a social gospel, e.g.  getting along with you neighbor, how to succeed in life, work, relationships, etc.

But, there really is nothing new under the sun,

 

“Mercy! Good God! what manifold misery I beheld! The common people, especially in the villages, have no knowledge whatever of Christian doctrine, and, alas! many pastors are altogether incapable and incompetent to teach [so much so, that one is ashamed to speak of it]. Nevertheless, all maintain that they are Christians…” (M. Luther, Intro to Small Catechism)

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 6:17 AM

Nancy A. Almodovar:

I blame the pastors for not teaching doctrine from the pulpit but instead prefer a social gospel, e.g.  getting along with you neighbor, how to succeed in life, work, relationships, etc.

But, there really is nothing new under the sun,

 

“Mercy! Good God! what manifold misery I beheld! The common people, especially in the villages, have no knowledge whatever of Christian doctrine, and, alas! many pastors are altogether incapable and incompetent to teach [so much so, that one is ashamed to speak of it]. Nevertheless, all maintain that they are Christians…” (M. Luther, Intro to Small Catechism)

Thanks for that Luther quote, Nancy!  *smile*  Great quote for such a time as this..........   Peace to you!

        We have our work cut out for us  ....    teaching, proclaiming, preaching, sharing, witnessing     ...........   one of the reasons we equip ourselves and strive to reduce our own ignorances ...........

9 What has been is what will be,

and what has been done is what will be done,

and there is nothing new under the sun.  Eccl 1:9

 

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Daniel B. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 9:16 AM

I took that quiz yesterday through the Time magazine article. I missed one (Jewish Sabbath). I put Saturday, forgetting it starts on Friday at sundown... Huh?   

The analysis of the data (as to those who took it) was not very surprising; the average Christian scored low and the average well-educated person 'off the street' scored quite well.  Ick!

We, myself certainly included, must do a better job at educating others about the tenets of our faith in Christ *as well as* other belief systems (for how can one give a ready defense if one is ignorant of other religions?) Ignorance is hardly bliss (as your forum title notes). 

 

"A God without wrath brought men without sin into a kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a cross" Helmut Richard Niebuhr: The Kingdom of God in America (speaking facetiously)

 

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Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 4:37 PM

Nancy A. Almodovar:

I blame the pastors for not teaching doctrine from the pulpit but instead prefer a social gospel, e.g.  getting along with you neighbor, how to succeed in life, work, relationships, etc.

But, there really is nothing new under the sun,

 

“Mercy! Good God! what manifold misery I beheld! The common people, especially in the villages, have no knowledge whatever of Christian doctrine, and, alas! many pastors are altogether incapable and incompetent to teach [so much so, that one is ashamed to speak of it]. Nevertheless, all maintain that they are Christians…” (M. Luther, Intro to Small Catechism)

I agree with you to a point...the preacher need to come to a balance of both, daily needs of the people and doctrine. If we would actually preach/teach the doctrines found solely in the Scriptures, we would be able to eliminate most of the daily need problems (as they are usually covered somewhere in the doctrinal issues). But we can't just give up preaching/teaching the ways to deal with the problems of life. If they aren't being fed (even some "junk food" so to speak), they will leave. There has to be a blending of the two.

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Ward Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 6:39 PM

Thanks!

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Ralph Mauch | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 7:24 PM

Milford Charles Murray:
Took it and expected to score 100% and am a bit irritated that I actually missed one.  Not bad, but ...

Not bad Milford, missing only one. I got them all (guessed once and got it right), but of course it's all due to my many years of studies with Logos Stick out tongue Enjoyed that very much!

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 8:12 PM

Daniel Brinton:

I took that quiz yesterday through the Time magazine article. I missed one (Jewish Sabbath). I put Saturday, forgetting it starts on Friday at sundown... Huh?   

The analysis of the data (as to those who took it) was not very surprising; the average Christian scored low and the average well-educated person 'off the street' scored quite well.  Ick!

We, myself certainly included, must do a better job at educating others about the tenets of our faith in Christ *as well as* other belief systems (for how can one give a ready defense if one is ignorant of other religions?)

EDIT: Thanks for that. I'd seen a news story about it before which also included a quiz, but this version had more of the questions. I got 'em all right both times (whew! just barely).

I wonder how the demographic of Logos Users would do on that quiz? Probably higher than most, I'm guessing, at least on the questions relating to our own faith and scriptures. It was most fascinating to see what questions people did best on ("What religion was Mother Teresa?" and "Is a public school teacher permitted to lead a prayer in school?") and what ones they did worst on ("Is a public school teacher permitted to read from the Bible as an example of literature?" and "Which of (Jonathan Edwards, Charles Finney, Billy Graham) participated in the First Great Awakening?").

Yes, its truly embarassing how poorly those who consider themselves Christians did in general. Being well-educated in Christian doctrine is of utmost importance of course, but even that does not mean we must be ignorant of the basics that any well-educated person who isn't a follower of other religions would know about those other religions. There are only a couple of books in Logos that can help with that gap in our knowledge:

I'd like to see more options in that category. For example:

  • Eerdmans' Handbook to the World's Religions
  • The Ways of Religion: An Introduction to the Major Traditions (Roger Eastman, ed.; Oxford, 1999)
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 8:52 PM

Ralph Mauch:

Milford Charles Murray:
Took it and expected to score 100% and am a bit irritated that I actually missed one.  Not bad, but ...

Not bad Milford, missing only one. I got them all (guessed once and got it right), but of course it's all due to my many years of studies with Logos Stick out tongue Enjoyed that very much!

 

Good for you, Ralph!  *smile*        Thanks for sharing!

I have no excuse, since i also have many years of studies with Logos and many years of study besides that.  Missed The Great Awakening.  Could kick myself around the block.   Had it right -- in my mind -- then I  second guessed myself!   *smile*

Peace and Blessings!

 

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 9:30 PM

Rosie Perera:
I wonder how the demographic of Logos Users would do on that quiz? Probably higher than most, I'm guessing, at least on the questions relating to our own faith and scriptures.

I got all of the questions right and I would credit my studies for knowing the answers relating broadly to the Christian faith. My homeschooling research taught me the public school details. Unfortunately I learned the details of non-Christian faiths from day-to-day interaction with the general public in the United States. I do not know if the UK, Australia, Germany or Ecuador are as inter-faith as the USA has become. It is not uncommon to run across every flavor of belief system in the course of one day. I do enjoy engaging dialogue with the many people I encounter.

Rosie Perera:
Yes, its truly embarassing how poorly those who consider themselves Christians did in general. Being well-educated in Christian doctrine is of utmost importance of course, but even that does not mean we must be ignorant of the basics that any well-educated person who isn't a follower of other religions would know about those other religions.

I worked for 6 months with a young muslim who knew the Bible better than most Christians. He had been steeped in the Bible as much as I had. It made the work days go by quickly. We parted as friends but neither of us converted the other.

It is important to know the why of what we believe. That is where Logos comes in. I just used the ESV Study Bible Notes for the first time tonight.  I'm giddy! Stick out tongue

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 29 2010 10:48 PM

Matthew C Jones:
Unfortunately I learned the details of non-Christian faiths from day-to-day interaction with the general public in the United States.

This is unfortunate why? Admittedly when the census was done this year we were informed that Seattle is the (proud) location of the most diverse ethnicity zip code in the US. But it sounds to me that you got a good comparative religion education for free.Big Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 30 2010 3:38 AM

Bill Shewmaker:
If they aren't being fed (even some "junk food" so to speak), they will leave. There has to be a blending of the two.

Bill, not being picky or trying to be negative but to my mind....I say then let them go. If what they want is drivel...they can get it somewhere else.

My belief is that bibical, God honoring preaching should occur...and God will build his church....if there is some fallout because of that...so be it.

 

just my 02c brother....

Robert Pavich

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Nancy A. Almodovar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 30 2010 4:06 AM

Amen Robert,

If the true Gospel is preached (Law/Gospel/Gratitude)

What God requires God provides

If this is proclaim, Christ will build His church.  I lived way too many years on cotton candy Christianity to even accept this mantra:  well, give them what they want for food (even a little junk food) and they'll stay.  I'm sorry, with the resources here at Logos we, those of us who read them, should realize junk food will eventually make fat lazy believers who are killed spiritually by the one feeding them that very junk food.

 

America is obese and not just with McDonald's but with fast-food sermonettes. 

Would you give your child a bowl of M&M's every morning because, well at least they'll eat it.

We must, and I speak as a foolish woman here to learned men, we must (i to women and children, you men to the whole congregation) feed them upon the Written Word of God; proclaiming to them iustus per fidem propter Christum (justification through faith on account of Christ, not on account of your faith in Christ) and then, and then only, will He grow His Church.

This Pew report is a sad report card on american evangelicalism and American's have scored an "F".

nancy

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Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 30 2010 12:22 PM

Big Smile

Robert Pavich:

Bill Shewmaker:
If they aren't being fed (even some "junk food" so to speak), they will leave. There has to be a blending of the two.

Bill, not being picky or trying to be negative but to my mind....I say then let them go. If what they want is drivel...they can get it somewhere else.

My belief is that bibical, God honoring preaching should occur...and God will build his church....if there is some fallout because of that...so be it.

 

just my 02c brother....

Robert,

I appreciate your thoughts and statements.Yes I wasn't trying to say we need to feed them "junk food". What I was saying is that IF we started really preaching/teaching doctrinally, then that would take care of most of their day to day life situation problems. The problem isn't necessarily doctrinal preaching/teaching, it is in the apllication side of the equation. Somehow, someway we need to make the Scriptures applicable/relavent to their needs (either felt needs or real needs) or they will leave (and may or may not find what they need).

Jesus talked about throwing pearls before swine...but he also talked about casting the seed...even in poor soil. I've wrestled with this topic for almost 40 years and it hasn't gotten any easier...especially in a youth culture that really has almost NO history in the church.

We need to bring them along (even slowly if need be). Strong doctrinal preaching would be great for the saints who have been strong and faithful, but what about the newborn Christian? When I preach, I try to set the bar high enough to stretch my most mature Christians and yet make it "easy" enough for the relatively young learners.

Thanks again for sharing.Big Smile

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 30 2010 12:53 PM

Bill Shewmaker:
Strong doctrinal preaching would be great for the saints who have been strong and faithful, but what about the newborn Christian? When I preach, I try to set the bar high enough to stretch my most mature Christians and yet make it "easy" enough for the relatively young learners.

This isn't easy to do but it is important. In homeschooling our kids we teach many subjects corporately. Humanities lend themselves well to that practice. One thing I've noticed is the younger students will usually absorb more than what is expected of them. When dealing in spiritual matters God works with some of the feeblest efforts we put forth. That doesn't justify laxness on our part. We still need to preach the whole message.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 30 2010 5:32 PM

Robert Pavich:

Bill Shewmaker:
If they aren't being fed (even some "junk food" so to speak), they will leave. There has to be a blending of the two.

Bill, not being picky or trying to be negative but to my mind....I say then let them go. If what they want is drivel...they can get it somewhere else.

My belief is that bibical, God honoring preaching should occur...and God will build his church....if there is some fallout because of that...so be it.

+ bunches Yes

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 1 2010 6:58 PM

Milford Charles Murray:
I have no excuse, since i also have many years of studies with Logos and many years of study besides that.  Missed The Great Awakening.  Could kick myself around the block.   Had it right -- in my mind -- then I  second guessed myself!   *smile*

There was no way I could miss that one. I'm taking a course on the History of the Christian Pastor this semester and am reading George Marsden's excellent biography of that particular pastor right now, so he was fresh on my mind!

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