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Posts 403
777 | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 22 2010 12:52 AM


I haven't posted here in a while because I found Logos 4 to be pretty much a cluster somethingorother but this thread is


Fred, just buy real books.  Since Logos 4 came out I've just been adding to my real book library.  I almost never use my Logos 4 at all now and I figure Jesus and His disciples did not have Logos and they pretty much did OK and Paul didn't have Logos and he did OK, so don't get so twisted up about a Christian company that wants to release software that isn't ready for public consumption and is in perpetual beta testing and charges the same price for data bits as someone else charges for smyth sewn case bound printed books.  Quit being a lab rat for Logos and get your printed Bible and your printed references and let it go.  If Logos wants to charge a zillion bucks for locked in reference works, that's their right.  Just say NO to the situation Logos wants to put you in to if you don't want to be put into that situation.  Don't let anyone else drive your bus.  Go buy real books and relax and study up to show yourself approved.  I'm sure the Lord will have something special to say to folks that overcharged for Bible study materials when they stand before Him.  Let Him deal with it and you go chill out and study and stay in control.  If you are not happy, then do what makes you happy - I did.  I have a printed library here that puts most seminaries to shame and I can give them away or sell them or use them to press flowers if I wish.

If you are looking for scholarly Bible software that is actually responsive then try the product that I cannot mention by name here in the forums, but it rhymes with BibleWorks.



Posts 3
jonathon blake | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 22 2010 4:23 AM

>The King James Bible is A Public Domain...


The KJV is distributed under a Royal Patent, albeit one that it ignored outside of the British Commonwealth.


> This is how E-Sword produces so many works at no cost - No Copyright Fee,

Most of the recent official e-Sword resources are not gratis.

Roughly half of the user created resources for e-Sword that are currently available on the Internet are being distributed in violation of US Copyright Law.   A copyright fee is due, but the resource creator did not obtain permission to distribute, much less pay the required royalties.  (For some languages, and in some parts of the world, 100% of the user created resources are being distributed in violation of both US Copyright Law, and Copyright Law in that country.)

>The Works of Philo" which is a public domain

The Greek text _might_ be public domain, but don't count on it.  The English translation is pretty much guaranteed to be under copyright, unless you are using a translation that was published prior to 1923 in English in the United States.  If the translation is not in English, and was not published in the United States prior to 1923, then 1909 is the date you are looking for, to ensure that it is public domain in the United States.  (US case law, not statute law.)


>Thus some books published actually LOGOS very little to produce.


Very little is a relative term.  

* Public domain content is no cheaper to transcribe, proof read, and copyedit, than content that is under copyright.   It doesn't matter what the source of the content is, it needs to be checked for errors.  (This is as true for content from publishers sending LOGOS the etext they use, as it is for content that was OCRd in, or content that came via Project Gutenburg.  Transforming the data into something usable by the Libronix engine can cause data mal-transformation.  )

* Just because somebody other than LOGOS is subsidizing the cost of creating the resource, that does not mean that it costs very little to produce.  The costs are relatively constant.  The only question is when those costs are paid --- before publication or after publication.


Posts 8967
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 22 2010 7:47 AM

Fred, just buy real books.

If you have read all of Fred Morgan's posts you would know BibleWorks will not satisfy his requests. Fred wants Mennonite/Anabaptist works available on his computer. There are precious few available in any software program. I agree with Fred we need them.

The second issue is price setting. I can churn out PDF files of public domain books quickly and much cheaper than Logos can produce tagged resources and back them up with perpetual support. If we want higher quality and more usability we need to be willing to pay for it.

Don't let anyone else drive your bus.

Good advice. The only additional comments I will offer is "Don't expect others to let you drive their bus"  and what the Apostle said here:  James 4:11-12

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Posts 8967
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 22 2010 7:56 AM

jonathon blake:

What an amazing first post!

Everything you say here is true and corrects many widely-misunderstood ideas.

I am sorry to say I have run across a lot of Christians who believe civil laws do not apply to us. But for the rest of us who do submit to governing authorities, your post is a real eye-opener.

jonathon blake:
The KJV is distributed under a Royal Patent, albeit one that it ignored outside of the British Commonwealth.

(I just learned this fact last year.) Thanks for your informative post.

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Posts 399
Wilson Hines | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 22 2010 8:07 AM

Matthew, are you referring to civil laws or the talk about the constitution and free speech?

Wilson Hines

Posts 8967
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 22 2010 11:24 AM

Wilson Hines:

Matthew, are you referring to civil laws or the talk about the constitution and free speech?

All of the following is to be considered in light of Romans 13:1-5

With this particular issue, civil laws. The US Constitution is subjugated to all treaties the US makes. This includes the Universal Copyright Convention and the Berne Convention. Everything Jonathon Blake said about "public domain" is correct.

As for constitutional rights in general, the US founding fathers recognized the God-given inalienable rights but other nations are not bound by the US Constitution nor recognize God given rights. If a US citizen gets arrested in Japan he has no right to a speedy trial, no Miranda rights, no right to a trial by jury of his peers, etc. (That is why the MPs arrest  soldiers misbehaving and quickly whisk them back on base. Otherwise they sit in a Japanese jail for months.) Iraqi citizens can not claim these rights in their government courts. Saudi Arabia does not allow US soldiers to legally possess R-rated movies. They consider these to be pornography. Singapore does not consider caning "cruel or unusual punishment." These nations frankly don't care what Americans think of their laws, so long as we obey their laws while in their jurisdictions. Enough straying off-topic........

Logos offers a nice resource that deals with the US Constitution in detail:
The Christian History Library  http://www.logos.com/products/details/3525
I have had these volumes in hardback for a few decades and they are excellent. So excellent I purchased them in Logos a year ago.

I hope I answered your question without prompting everyone to debate political issues. Moon


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