Book of Revelation- Historic Premil

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Posts 171
Abi Gail | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 31 2010 6:07 AM

Our original conversation was about the Preface to Romans...Not Galatians. He did write one for Galatians. (as well as James,Jude, and Revelation)...all pale in comparison to his Romans Preface. I can just imagine that he was at that "First Love" state while studying Romans. It is My understanding that It was his study of Romans that prompted him to see all of Scripture in a new light.

God Bless

~

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 31 2010 6:33 AM

ooppss!  You are right of course!  *smile*              Must be a bit wooley-headed this morning.  Had a few things to do before Worship today - am leaving now! - and for some reason I was also thinking about Luther's Commentary on Galatians .........

                    ..........  it was, though, the Romans preface that I pondered after your post .......

thanks for the correction         ............   maybe I'll open it again on this Reformation Day   ......

         hoping our Pastor (love him!)          and the hymns           .......specially chosen, I'm sure ........    and the Red Paraments for this morning's Liturgical Service       ...........    are inspiring   ......   but above all ........

help me focus again on the Grace of God through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!

Peace to you!

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 31 2010 6:39 AM

Matthew C Jones:
A Complete Guide to Understanding the Dispensationalism Controversy

Here is a book that comes from a dispensational perspective and yet is post tribulational, an interesting mix.  The Church and the Tribulation  A Biblical Examination of Posttribulationism   by Robert H. Gundry  

A here is a popular video going around.  It's on topic, (but unrelated to L4.) (Hey, everybody else is violating. why not me :)

GodTube - Today's Christian Videos - After Great Tribulation

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 175
Silent Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 1 2010 2:50 AM

Abi Gail:

MJ. Smith:

Abi Gail:
It was the demoralized nature of the papacy

I think you misspoke. Don't you mean "the demoralized nature of Rodrigo Borgia a.k.a. Pope Alexander VI"?Smile

No, I didn't misspeak. "Demoralized Leaders" was the title the writers gave the article.The allusion to the Demoralized Nature of the Papacy was their choice of words... not mine. I added Nothing. (Thank you Logos, for Copy and Paste.) You can accuse them of misspeaking, if you like.Smile

 

 

                                                                            HmmHHHMMMmmm~~~Hmm

 

Posts 4
Seymore | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 1 2010 1:49 PM

                                                                                                Yes

Posts 77
K.J. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 2 2010 4:23 AM

           Welcome,Seymore. Feel free to join the discussion.Smile

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2010 1:07 AM

Matthew C Jones:
Would that all protestants were as dedicated to holiness. In my life I have seen immorality wearing every type of cleric's garb; be it Catholic, Pentecostal, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Mormon, Muslim, Buddhist, Sikh...........    (fill in your own favorites, they've all fallen short.)

Yes, you are right Matthew, but still there is a great difference in what was going on in those days and today. The leadership of the named denominations (I am not speaking about the non-Christian religions you named) is seeing it as a problem and dealing more or less with the immorality when it occurs. In the time leading to the Reformation the top leadership was a problem. And it was connected to the doctrinal issues IMHO (as somebody noticed already).

I am glad we live in a different days, however not being without our own challenges and problems.

Bohuslav

Posts 171
Abi Gail | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2010 2:33 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
Yes, you are right Matthew, but still there is a great difference in what was going on in those days and today

Bohuslav Wojnar:
seeing it as a problem and dealing more or less with the immorality when it occurs.

Thank you for having the courage to swim upstream and identify the problem.

Bohuslav Wojnar:
I am glad we live in a different days

 I'm not sure that the victims of the current version of immorality would agree. I am related to 2 men in their 50's who were savagely scarred by the pedophilia of the priesthood. They have joined the thousands who have testified about the  Cover-Up of the crimes inflicted on children... and after 40 years of carrying that baggage, are seeking counseling to finally deal with the crimes inflicted upon them.

                                                     Different days? ...Dealing more or less with the immorality when it occurs?

                                                                                                      I'm just not so sure.Sad

Matt 18:5-6

"And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me;  6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. 


 

 

 

 

~

Posts 4
Seymore | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2010 9:17 AM

I sure didn't know all that.   I'm gonna enjoy this site.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2010 11:13 AM

Abi Gail:

Bohuslav Wojnar:
I am glad we live in a different days

 I'm not sure that the victims of the current version of immorality would agree. I am related to 2 men in their 50's who were savagely scarred by the pedophilia of the priesthood. They have joined the thousands who have testified about the  Cover-Up of the crimes inflicted on children... and after 40 years of carrying that baggage, are seeking counseling to finally deal with the crimes inflicted upon them.

                                                     Different days? ...Dealing more or less with the immorality when it occurs?

                                                                                                      I'm just not so sure.Sad

I'm sad to agree. The days are still too similar.

This problem is not isolated to the "other guys" but purveys throughout every denomination. I venture a guess that each of your own churches  carry some type of "sexual misconduct" liability insurance. And a g00gle search will show there is good reason to. But insurance, cover-ups and the denominational designations do not help the victim

I am not sure how any of this relates to Revelation & historical premillennialism, yet. Cool

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 77
K.J. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2010 12:18 PM

Matthew C Jones:
I am not sure how any of this relates to Revelation & historical premillennialism, yet.

 

 2 Thess 2:3-5

 For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,  4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 

ESV

 

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2010 1:47 PM

Matthew C Jones:

I'm sad to agree. The days are still too similar.

This problem is not isolated to the "other guys" but purveys throughout every denomination. I venture a guess that each of your own churches  carry some type of "sexual misconduct" liability insurance. And a g00gle search will show there is good reason to. But insurance, cover-ups and the denominational designations do not help the victim

I will say just one more thing and than leave the OT subject. I am very sorry for all victims of any misconduct. However there is a difference in the scope of evil. I will say it by an analogy. We have corruption in our country today. We have all kind of criminal things, even some problems of connection of criminal world to the government structures. But, but... it is nothing to be compared with the scope of lawlessness and corruption of whole system we had in the time of the communist regime. There was no way to escape. It was whole our world. Not just cases of evil individuals, whole system had been evil. That is the difference I see.

Bohuslav

Posts 171
Abi Gail | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2010 3:05 PM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
However there is a difference in the scope of evil. I will say it by an analogy. We have corruption in our country today.

I find a flaw in your analogy, in that it uses earthly governments to make your point. Please use Logos to read 1 Sam 8:4-22

The warning God gave through Samuel was not just for the Israelites, But for anyone who chooses, or has a human government imposed upon them.

The only positive thing that can come of the atrocities inflicted by this corruption, is that it can, on occasion, prompt people to reach out to God for relief from their Pain. Gen 50:20 

This is rarely the case when the crimes are done by people who claim to be representatives of God.

Once one turns their back on the institution that claims to represent God...In many cases , they will turn their back on God, Himself.

Therein lies the danger. It is a well thought out plan, put into motion by the deceiver. And it works...Flawlessly.

God Bless. Smile

 

~

Posts 99
Greg B | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 3 2010 6:57 PM

Whyndell Grizzard:

 

The reason for my interest is after, what seems a life time, I have in the last 8 years been on a journey away from Dispensationalism- I can no longer biblically support its tenants.

It was about 7 or 8 years ago that I started questioning the presuppositions of dispensationalism (after 20 years of studying and teaching it in a church) and found it wanting.  I go back and forth between historic premil and amil.  There is a resource in my Logos but I am not sure how I came by it.  It may have come with the Scholars package or it may have been a promotional giveaway. It is called "Hope in Hard TImes-The Final Curtain: Revelation by Bob Utley (aka R.J.D Utley).  He tries to avoid advocating for a particular view but rather talks about the process of developing one's view.  He mentions that Ladd is one of his favorite commentators.  I haven't read the whole study guide but what I have read has been helpful.

Take a look and see if it is already in your collection.

Greg

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 4 2010 3:22 AM

Abi Gail:
I find a flaw in your analogy, in that it uses earthly governments to make your point. Please use Logos to read 1 Sam 8:4-22

No, I don't think so. I don't want to develop that any further, so just to clarify my analogy. Communism was both, philosophy (even religion) and political system assuming world government. The danger of the corruption coming out of this connection was therefore much bigger than from any individual crook who happens to be politician today. That's all.

The reference from 1 Sam 8:4-22 I understand as being directly for Israel, indirectly (in a spiritual way) of course in many ways to all of us. I don't believe in building theocracy in Prague, Brussels, Rome or Washington. But that is bringing us too much off-topic, so let us leave it.

Bohuslav

Posts 3300
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 4 2010 12:00 PM

Gregory Bednarchik:

Whyndell Grizzard:

 

The reason for my interest is after, what seems a life time, I have in the last 8 years been on a journey away from Dispensationalism- I can no longer biblically support its tenants.

It was about 7 or 8 years ago that I started questioning the presuppositions of dispensationalism (after 20 years of studying and teaching it in a church) and found it wanting.  I go back and forth between historic premil and amil.  There is a resource in my Logos but I am not sure how I came by it.  It may have come with the Scholars package or it may have been a promotional giveaway. It is called "Hope in Hard TImes-The Final Curtain: Revelation by Bob Utley (aka R.J.D Utley).  He tries to avoid advocating for a particular view but rather talks about the process of developing one's view.  He mentions that Ladd is one of his favorite commentators.  I haven't read the whole study guide but what I have read has been helpful.

Take a look and see if it is already in your collection.

Greg

 

Yes I have it- but have not until this point looked at it- will give it a closer look.

Thanks Yes

Posts 1
Richard Tatina | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 16 2012 8:26 PM

Carson used to be amil but is now historic premil

Posts 3300
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 17 2012 5:07 AM

For those interested I found a pdf of Horae Apocalypticae all 4 volumes here. Maybe Logos would consider getting this into oue libraries

http://www.harvestherald.com/horae/Horae.pdf

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 17 2012 6:18 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:
Maybe Logos would consider getting this into oue libraries
This set was included in the Classic Commentaries and Studies on Revelation which recently went from Community Pricing to Prepub.

D. A. Carson's views on Revelation can be listened to here.

D. A. Carson on the Book of Revelation – Justin Taylor

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 2279
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 17 2012 8:55 AM

Jerry M:
D. A. Carson's views on Revelation can be listened to here.

Thanks for this, Jerry. Greatly appreciated and I will looked forward to listening to this.

Andy

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