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Posts 175
Silent Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 29 2010 7:24 PM

Milford Charles Murray:
Silent Sam's postings have annoyed me on occasion

I believe I apologized before... But I will say it again...I apologize for anything I have done that has offended you.

Posts 249
Giovanni Baggio | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 29 2010 7:35 PM

Milford, maybe silent sam is Abi Gail since she has experience a lot of "Lip biting" lately, that's why she's.......silent...LOL Stick out tongue

Posts 8967
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 29 2010 9:02 PM

Mark Barnes:
I happened to preach on this passage last Sunday. I too believe it's relevant, and that the passage is talking about the eternal consequences of sin for Christians.

Thank you for the sermon Mark.

I found myself in your story as the Cowboy hearing the small voice that says I can still be used of God.

I have a good friend who has been investing time weekly with me, helping me begin a new area of service to God.  Your sermon is very encouraging.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 171
Abi Gail | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 29 2010 9:31 PM


                                                                                   1 Cor 10:13 Zip it!




Posts 376
Dan Sheppard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 30 2010 12:02 AM


I did not see Tracy, where anybody suggested this path.  2 Cor. 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."

The point being the idea of still being judged by Christ, based upon what we did while on earth.

That may take you in another interesting direction.


Posts 3915
Forum MVP
Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 30 2010 5:54 AM

Giovanni Baggio:

Milford, maybe silent sam is Abi Gail since she has experience a lot of "Lip biting" lately, that's why she's.......silent...LOL Stick out tongue

FYI, Abi Gail is really a man, and so is Rene Atchley, if he should ever post again . . . Smile


Personally, I find having to dictate my responses to my wife who then types them saves me a LOT of grief. . . .

. . . I don't really do that, but I KNOW it would be a fool-proof system.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 4625
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 30 2010 6:02 AM

Silent Sam:

Milford Charles Murray:
Silent Sam's postings have annoyed me on occasion

I believe I apologized before... But I will say it again...I apologize for anything I have done that has offended you.

Not at all necessary!   *smile*                Much appreciated, though, and received with gratitude. 

               Perhaps I have "too thin a skin" sometimes   ?????                  If not that, I certainly have other faults that I need to (and do!) take to our Lord for his help, guidance, and usually forgivenss ---   which He so gracious gives also!     Through our Lord Jesus Christ!

Peace to you!

You may or may not be interested, but finding and pondering on this next quote in a blog by some Mitch Joel whom I do not know is of interest to me.  Of course -- for sure!  -- for sure!  We Christians have a higher more divine paradigm for our lives and our interactions with the people of the world and the people of The Church!   *smile*  Ultimately it is the Lord's Paradigm that concerns and consumes me!       *smile*

Quote from Mitch Joel (found on internet)

"Maybe we need to think about having thin skin instead of thick skin?

I'm guilty of this too. In my first business book, Six Pixels of Separation, I tell readers (nay, I warn them!) that if they do engage in any of these many new media channels and platforms that they must have thick skin, but the truth is that I don't have thick skin at all. I have very, very thin skin. I want people to think my ideas are great and if they do not, it bothers me. I harp on their every word and I play evil games in my mind about snarky ways to defend my own honor (and then I do nothing by taking a personal and moral higher ground stance). When people are overly nice to me and complimentary, my skin is thin too. I don't know how to accept it graciously. I think thoughts like, "oh, they're just saying that to be nice," or "if they only really knew me, they wouldn't think in this kind of way." I'm great at self-deprecation because - without question - it is one of my primary self-defense mechanisms. When I discuss my stance on Blogging and blog comments (more on that here: The Power Of Engagement And Blog Comments), what I'm not telling you is that by trying to defend or reiterate my stance, I actually begin to think that maybe my initial thought was wrong, or that someone else is always smarter than me. Because I have thin skin, all of that sucks a lot of life, energy and passion out of Blogging, writing, thinking and creating new marketing paradigms.

Even Blogging this stuff doesn't feel comfortable because I don't have thick skin (you may be laughing at me right now).

I don't like hurting other people's feelings. I don't like making other people feel that they are not an equal. I don't believe anyone should be unethical or up to shenanigans. Ultimately, I don't believe that in order to speak our minds, we have to make others feels like they are less than us or wrong. I don't have a thick skin. When people say, "it's nothing personal, it's just business," I think to myself, "it's very personal. I spent most of my waking hours at business. If that's not personal, what's the point?"


Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 8967
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 30 2010 8:40 AM

Tracy Clark:
someone was distrubed by the fact after you were saved some people might use this for an excuse to sin.

Paul was also disturbed to find many Christians had this attitude. Romans 6:1-14

Tracy Clark:
I pointed out that their could be earthly consquences such as Davids. But this person believed that not all people suffered such consquences

You are correct. The Bible is replete with examples of how devastating sin is and the unseen consequences it can have. Just because we don't see it does not mean it isn't there.

Your original question begs another question that you will not get a consensus on in these forums:
"When is a person saved?"
A study of Soteriology within Christianity will show you the many differing opinions.

If you believe the Bible teaches any of these:
election ("pre-destination"), eternal security ("once-saved, always saved"), Universalism ("everybody goes to Heaven"), or the all-sufficiency of the blood of Christ (salvation by Grace, "faith-only"),
then you can quit worrying about a Christian's sin reversing God's plan of salvation. This does not answer your first question about the consequences but it does contain (restrain) the possible answers.

If you believe the Bible teaches your salvation is not complete until Jesus utters "Well done thy good and faithfull servant" then you best stay busy doing lots of good works.

I believe the Bible teaches we receive rewards in Heaven for things done on earth. That would also mean we would bypass rewards for works we chose not to do. (Could Rev 21:4 be us weeping when we see how we have wronged our Lord?) But this also does not answer your original question.

We definitely see some of the consequenses of sin in the Christian's life as we walk in this world in others' and our own personal lives. I dare say we don't know the depths of the influence or we would flee every temptation. We should be careful not to judge other's misfortune as a result of their sin. John 9:2-3

Except for the nail-prints & spear wound in the Saviour's ressurected body, we have no scripture references for any everlasting consequenses of our sin in Heaven.



Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 31 2010 6:35 AM

Giovanni Baggio:
should I accept their view or interpretation just because they said it? I'm sure you will agree with me in that "No" is the answer. We must search the Scriptures to see if what we are being taught is true or not

Hello Giovanni,

We do agree here. Scripture is norma normans (norming norm). Because of this, I first went to scripture to take a very quick look at the theology in the Gospel of Matthew concerning its eschatology and its ecclesiology .

To share with you my process, I first did a search on "βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν." I found out that this phrase occurs 24 times in 23 verses, and all 23 verses are in the Gospel of Matthew. After looking at these verses, I say that all of them deal with prolepsis eschatology. Because this confirmed my initial thought, I went and verified it with my other resources. After looking at my first two resources (AYBD and Eerdman's Dictionary of the Bible) and both of them confirmed that "Kingdom of Heaven" is about prolepsis eschatology,or as the AYBD states, " future state of the resurrected, immortal blessed."

I then looked at the ecclesiology in Matthew.

  1. The Church is instituted by Jesus and founded by his authority.
    • Matthew records Jesus as saying, "I will build my church" (16:18). Matthew is the only Gospel in which Jesus speaks of the church, much less describes it as "his" or says that he will "build" it.
    • Jesus bases his "Great Commission" to the disciples (28:18-20) on the fact that he has been given "all authority in heaven and earth" (28:18).In the "Community Discourse," Jesus promises his disciples that the church will have divine authority to "bind and loose" (18:18).
    • --in contrast, the religious leaders are characters who lack authority (7:28-29).
  2. The definitive characteristic of the Church is the presence of Jesus (and, therefore, the presence of God, 1:23)
    • In the "Community Discourse," Jesus promises that he will be present wherever two or three gather in his name (18:19).
    • In the last verse of the Gospel, Jesus promises his disciples, "I am with you always, to the end of the age."
    • Special attention is given throughout the Gospel to characters who are said to be "with Jesus" (his mother, 2:11; outcasts, 9:11; a follower, 26:51; disciples, 16:21; 20:17-19, 26:37-38, 40, 69, 71).
    • --in contrast, Jesus is never said to be "with" the religious leaders, but the latter are described as being "against" Jesus (12:14; 26:59; 27:1). This is significant, since Jesus says in 12:30, "he who is not with me is against me."
  3. The Church is portrayed as "the family of God," in relationship to Jesus.
    • Jesus, who is the Son of God, designates his disciples as his true family and says that whoever does the will of God is his "brother and sister and mother" (12:46-50).
    • The disciples of Jesus are frequently called "sons of God" (5:9, 45; 8:12; 13:38; 17:25-26; 23:9).
    • --in contrast, Jesus describes the religious leaders and their proselytes as "children of hell" (23:15).

Because you said,

Giovanni Baggio:
. . .it means you pull a verse out of context to try to teach your own ideas.

I responded to your post.

I only responded with just snippets from Logos' resources because they are considered more, to use your word, authoritative throughout Christianity than just what I write.

FYI...The main reason why I am responding to your post is from your use of passive aggressive language.

Giovanni Baggio:
if you think ...hehehe
Giovanni Baggio:
Enjoy your AYBD...LOL WinkDevil...another LOL

And yes, humor is a form of passive aggressive.

We are told to

Phil Gons:
Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together.

Therefore, I am asking you to please refrain from using passive aggressive language in these forums.

FYI(2)...Yes, I would have brought this topic up if someone is in my living room.



Posts 47
Sam McCloud | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 7 2010 1:47 AM

Tracy C:

First of all I want to thank all of you for your replies. The question arose in a Bible study I was attending where someone was distrubed by the fact after you were saved some people might use this for an excuse to sin. I pointed out that their could be earthly consquences such as Davids. But this person believed that not all people suffered such consquences.  And thought it was unfair that they should go to heaven and enjoy the same treatment as those who always tried to live a holy life. For some reason I have it in my mine there was some biblical passages that talk about differences on how we are received in heaven or how we thought of ourselves differently when we got to heaven. Examples first shall be last and last shall be first. Sorry I'm not good at putting my thoughts in writing again thanks for all the help.


     I believe that there are different rewards for Christians based on what they have done with what God has given them and that this is scriptural. But there is something that is also true, and that is this: true salvation depends on true faith in Christ. If someone feels that they can live however they want and sin freely because God is gracious then I would say that person is not truly saved at all. For someone to regard the grace of God with such a complete lack of respect and appreciation.... how could that person claim that they love Jesus, have any real relationship with Jesus or worship Him as Lord of their life? Salvation depends to some degree on sustained repentance from sin, not perfection but also not just saying "I believe in Christ" and thinking you're free from any obligation to Him... James said that he would show his faith by his works, not that the works bring the salvation, but the true salvation, the relationship with Christ and empowerment through the Holy Spirit, will produce the good works and show the evidence of the activity of the Holy Spirit in the true Christian's life. Now there is a really big difference between the person who struggles with sin and fails sometimes (or even fails a lot if there is a genuine struggle)... and the person who says "It doesn't matter whether or not I sin because I'm saved and I have nothing to worry about". If there is no struggle against sin then there is no salvation; there can be no sanctification and there is obviously no proof of that person's true love for and faith in Christ and there will be no reward for that person, only judgment.

Matthew 24:36-51

Matthew 25:1-46

Matthew 16:24-27

Matthew 3:1-12

Mark 10:28-31

James 2:14-26

John 15:1-17

1 Peter 2:11

Ephesians 6:10-18

Romans 6:1-23

Romans 8:1-39

Romans 12:1-21

Hebrews 12:1-17

My Library | Romans 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Posts 1
Gareth Segree | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 11 2011 2:27 AM

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Gentlemen my 2 cents

What was the purpose for Christ’s coming?
Matthew 1:21; 1 John 3:5-6, 8; Hebrew 9:26; (Matthew 7: 20-23) - Jesus Christ came into this world to completely save men from SIN.

What is Sin?
1 John 3:4; Romans 7: 7;
Sin is the transgression of God’s LAW.

What is the law?
James 2: 8-12; Romans 13: 8-10; (Romans 7:7) Exodus 20: 4-17; Deuteronomy 5: 7-21; Exodus 34: 28;
The law of God is summarized in the Ten Commandments

Can carnal man keep the law of God? (A man that has not received the new birth)
Romans 7:14, Romans 8: 7(1-18);
No, it is impossible for carnal men to keep the law of God.

Is it required that we keep the law of God?
Revelation 22:14; Matthew 7: 21-23;
Those who keep the commandments of God will have right to the tree of Life, to enter into heaven.

Who will be able to hail Christ as Lord and savior?       
1 John 3: 1-3, 5,7; Hebrew 12:14; Romans 7:12;
Those who have ceased from Sin, and have been made pure even as Christ is pure will be able to hail Him as their Lord upon His return. If you fail to be righteousness and pure, then we CANNOT see God when He returns.

How then can a man keep the law of God?
John 3: 3-7; 1 John 3:9;
He must be born again.

What is this seed that enables men to keep the law?
1 Peter 1:18-25;
The seed is the word of God which is found in the Gospel.

Posts 35
Debessay | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 14 2011 9:01 AM

Dearest Mark, do you think the consequence follows the one who has committed sin after the sin is being forgiven or the consequence is what has happened to the victim (the doer himself or another second person) at the time the sin committed. I want to differentiate these two possibilities in the context of the better New covenant. What do you say?


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