Disreputable Company, Thy Name is Logos

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This post has 48 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 1:06 AM

Matthew C Jones:

Phil Gons:
Does that represent the majority of you?

I am happy with your present set up amd very happy with the new web site tweaking you are doing. KUDOS!

Yes, the same with me. The new way you do (the closer the more precise date) is fine, although I have had no problem seeing date change in the past, knowing there is always some reason for that. I always understood it as anticipated date, not a promised date.

I am very happy with the new web site. All the little things that are not perfect will be smoothed out, so what is the problem? Congratulations to all of you in Logos for a great job. Yes

Bohuslav

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 1:22 AM

Phil Gons:
But we're still always striving to do a better job with ship dates. For example, a recent change we made was to start broadening the estmate the further out we get from the ship date.

Phil Gons:
But the feel I get from customers is that they'd rather have the information, even if it's not always accurate, than not have the information at all (or have vaguer information). Does that represent the majority of you? Or would you rather we drop (precise) ship dates altogether?

Thank you for the details Phil, that's very useful. What you've described represents me just perfectly. I understand the pre-pub dates are guesstimates, and treat them accordingly.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 2:33 AM

tfjern:
shipping date was postponed five times

tfjern:
without having the courtesy of informing its customers of the "delays."

tfjern:
This is not the way to run a reputable company.

There is is massive leap between these statements, poor communications about a project that is slipping does not make Logos disreputable. I think it is valid to ask Logos to look at the accuracy of their scheduling and the frequency and timeliness of their communications but in my opinion neither of these failings indicates a moral failure at Logos and it was certainly not done to deceive or extort. There is no benefit to Logos in delaying prepublications as they only retrieve their investment when the item ships and we pay. 

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 3:45 AM

The OP and following posts by the OP are just reprehensible.

They are pointless, rude and ill informed.

On the other hand; Logos (Phil Gons) has shown themselves to be gracious and helpful in the face of an unwarranted accusation.

Kudos to Logos.

 

PS: I like the current system; don't change it.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 1558
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 4:18 AM

I am also happy with the current way of showing estimated ship date.

Thanks, Logos / Phil, for the prompt response to this rude original post.

Posts 10826
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 4:25 AM

Phil Gons:
But the feel I get from customers is that they'd rather have the information, even if it's not always accurate, than not have the information at all (or have vaguer information). Does that represent the majority of you?

This system works for me, as it helps me prepare. If you miss a scheduled date, I may be disappointed, but it is not the end of the world. I appreciate Logos' openness.

Posts 15
Mark McP | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 4:42 AM

I,  "for one" like your approach of refining the potential date as you get closer ...I would rather deal with an occasional disappointment than to deal with "no information at all"!Yes

Posts 761
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 4:57 AM

tfjern -

Does it not occur to you that almost all of your posts are negative? I cannot imagine having to live with you or how you treat people in person.

If I were Logos, I would have banned you from the forums long ago. They must be more tolerant and loving than I am.

Finally, to call Logos a disreputable company is to show either ignorance or an intentional act to defame part of the Body of Christ.

Jerry

iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.

Posts 1359
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 5:45 AM

Mark McP:

I,  "for one" like your approach of refining the potential date as you get closer ...I would rather deal with an occasional disappointment than to deal with "no information at all"!Yes

 

YesYes

Posts 761
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 5:54 AM

Edwin Bowden:

Mark McP:

I,  "for one" like your approach of refining the potential date as you get closer ...I would rather deal with an occasional disappointment than to deal with "no information at all"!Yes

 

YesYes

 

And a third Yes

Jerry

iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 6:36 AM

I too like the dates even though I am disappointed at times.  So I would vote not to change the policy.

I appreciate updates when there is something to say. In this case, I think Logos has been clear there is a Publisher issue, which explains why the resource is probably on the shelf ready to go, just waiting for contract RE-approval.  That's a much different scenario than say, "Oops - we thought we were done but the book has 300 more pages!".  Logos can't help that the publisher reopened the issue.

That said, I hope updates continue on this, telling us what's up, as these are resources I am really looking forward to, and now having no clue when they will be out is a little disconcerting.

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 6:51 AM

Phil Gons:
We've debated dropping the precise estimates altogether since we're not consistently hitting them. But the feel I get from customers is that they'd rather have the information, even if it's not always accurate, than not have the information at all (or have vaguer information). Does that represent the majority of you? Or would you rather we drop (precise) ship dates altogether?

While I occasionally get frustrated that the Hebrew Pronunciation thingy isn't done; I remember that I haven't paid for it yet either.  

I actually like the way you've spelled out the ship date estimates.  I would be in favor of changing the label from "Ships (date)" to "estimated (date)"  

As for the reputation of Logos: After more than a decade and many thousands of $ I can confirm that they have always been way above board in their dealings with me. Yes

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 583
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 7:31 AM

I'm happy with the system you have in place now, please don't change it.

Posts 298
Kaye Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 8:07 AM

 

Bobby Terhune:
I'm happy with the system you have in place now, please don't change it.

I agree.  I'm always excited to see a possible ship date on something I anticipate and understand it might slip because of the nature of the process.  I love the product and have gotten my money's worth using the various plans like community pricing, pre-pubs and sales.  From my viewpoint Logos has kept its commitments to me and the general user population.

K

"But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."  2 Timothy 4:5 (NASB)

Posts 938
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 8:10 AM

I often hope the ship date is not accurate so there will be a delay in when my credit card will be charged. Smile

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 427
Wilson Hines | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 8:30 AM

Bill Moore:

I often hope the ship date is not accurate so there will be a delay in when my credit card will be charged. Smile

I concur with Bill here LOL.  Hey Bill, I've had interesting moments in Clinton, SC and I don't even hold those moments against the people of Clinton ROFLOL.

 

RE this issue:

James 4:  11 mDo not speak evil against one another, brothers.4 The one who speaks against a brother or njudges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is only oone lawgiver andpjudge, he who is able to save and qto destroy. But rwho are you to judge your neighbor?

 

I've been guilty too!  There's just no excuse.  

 

I am FOR keeping the system the same.  It's the best system for the customers, but amitingly, it's probably not the best system for logos.

 

 

Wilson Hines

Posts 235
Tom Geswein | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 8:37 AM

When you consider the mass amount of time, energy, money and unforseen events that go into publishing a digital resource, it's amazing that you can predict a release date at all.  That fact that you are usually close is amazing.  Most customers realize that you are not prophets.  Ignore the naysayers - keep the system working the way it is.

"Disreputable" is way too strong of an accusation for something so trivial.  I too get a little annoyed at times at release dates, but as I said, they can't predict the future.  I have to keep reminding myself that my annoyance is selfish.  They are doing the best that they can with a lot of variables.

Great new website.  Great product.  Great business.  Please keep up the good work.

"It seems our problems solve themselves when we look beyond us to those truly in hell."  -  Beyond Our Suffering - AILD

Posts 700
Steve Maling | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 8:43 AM

Hey, Tom, I'm with you on all your points.

Logos, way to go! Hang in thereBig Smile

Posts 421
Scott S | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 9:30 AM

Phil Gons:
the feel I get from customers is that they'd rather have the information, even if it's not always accurate, than not have the information at all (or have vaguer information).

Please continue providing detailed projected dates.  This is helpful for planning and fun to look forward to the release of valued resources.

Posts 938
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 5 2010 9:47 AM

Wilson Hines:

Bill Moore:

I often hope the ship date is not accurate so there will be a delay in when my credit card will be charged. Smile

I concur with Bill here LOL.  Hey Bill, I've had interesting moments in Clinton, SC and I don't even hold those moments against the people of Clinton ROFLOL.


. . . .

Well, you've piqued my curiosity, Wilson! My wife and I are transplants, having lived here for a little over eight years now. Nice small town, though.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

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