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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 10:43 AM

Ted Hans:

NRSV would be one just leaves two more for George to answer. I will be surprise if the NRSV does not make it into his top three.
Ted.

Yes, that's what I would think also that would be George's choice. Thank you Ted for your input into the list. I appreciate that.

Bohuslav

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 10:44 AM

George Somsel:

Pastor Jerry Bush:
Really - how many resources do you need to preach the Word?

I would say:  NA27
                   BHS 4.2
                   BDAG
                   HALOT
                   BDB
                   Robertson:  A Hitorical Grammar...
                   Gesenius (or Joüon-Muraoka) A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew
                   Perhaps an English bible or two
                   A good set of commentaries would be nice

Other than that, nothing is really necessary.

George Somsel:
A good set of commentaries would be nice

My prediction, you mean the Anchor yale Bible.Big Smile

Ted.

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 17
Matt W | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 10:49 AM

So far I've spent about 2k.  Justifiable considering that I have cut back on entertainment.  It's amazing how easy it is to subscribe to entertainment services - CableTV, Tivo, Netflix, Cell phone data plans, etc., that in a period of several years, can easily tally far more than what people spend on building a theological library.

Matt.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 11:09 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:

George Somsel:
Perhaps an English bible or two

What would be your recommendation for a good English Translation George? What would be your Top 2 - 3 translations? What is your opinion about the NET Bible?

 

If  recall correctly, George defended The Message pretty vigorously. Devil Would that be one of the rcommended English Bibles?

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Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 11:19 AM

Wilson Hines:

Over the years, since 1993'sh, I would have to estimate in the range of $15k.   Really, all things considered (like since 1993) that isn't that bad.  I guess the thing that is astounding about it for most would be the fact that I am not in the ministry.  I just attended Bible college, got my Greek classes and went into business.  It was a mistake, but that is what happened.  

I just spent $750 last month!  Good grief, will it even ever end?  

BTW, I started with the basic Logos 1.x 3.5" disk for the KJV, and the Original Lang pack (purchased a few weeks later).

I think what keeps me buying is two fold: Maybe one day I will go to Seminary and will need the tools and finally, maybe there will be a church one day that needs a Sunday School teacher.  All the ones I have been to don't need anybody, ever.  But, I just have attended three, so my scope is kind of narrow.

I stopped counting at $5000.00.  This is getting scary.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 11:22 AM

Matthew C Jones:

Bohuslav Wojnar:

George Somsel:
Perhaps an English bible or two

What would be your recommendation for a good English Translation George? What would be your Top 2 - 3 translations? What is your opinion about the NET Bible?

 

 

If  recall correctly, George defended The Message pretty vigorously. Devil Would that be one of the rcommended English Bibles?

I would recommend the RSV, NRSV, JPS Tanak (maybe the ESV in a pinch).  Whether The Message would be included depends on your purpose in using it.  It would speak to many where others would not.  It is not and has never been my favorite translation (or even one which I used regularly since I don't have it).  I simply think the man has been frightfully maligned.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 11:42 AM

Thomas Black:

I can see it now.  Choose between Home Bible study, pastoral collection, scholars collections or... the Somsel collection.

You don't indicate what you consider the "Somsel collection" to contain.  I can assure you that it isn't one of the larger collections.  I attempt to avoid almost anything I would consider to be "fluff" though even so I get a fair amount of that.  Unfortunately I don't care to delete any resource I consider to have been purchased even though included with other resources.  This naturally includes all of the interlinears other than Tov's Parallel Aligned Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Texts of the Jewish Scripture which I find useful for determining which Greek words are used to translate which Hebrew/Aramaic words.  About the only use I find for the interlinears is to see why another user is having a problem with them.  So, if anyone supposes that the "Somsel collection" is extensive, let me disabuse you of the thought.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 11:58 AM

 

WARNING!  This post is Off-Topic ( like many )

George Somsel:
Whether The Message would be included depends on your purpose in using it.  It would speak to many where others would not.

I just thought of a possible use for The Message. If we can get The Gideons organization to distribute Bibles in secular  restaurants, bars & night clubs, The Message would probably be the version to offer.  Beer Drinks

I do believe I finally saw a Gideon Bible in a hotel that was a version other than King James. I can't remember which it was though.

[fwiw: I'm not against colorful versions. I do have the Rainbow Bible on computer but it is the King James version.]

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Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 12:06 PM

Bohuslav Wojnar:

George Somsel:

Pastor Jerry Bush:
Really - how many resources do you need to preach the Word?

I would say:  NA27
                   BHS 4.2
                   BDAG
                   HALOT
                   BDB
                   Robertson:  A Hitorical Grammar...
                   Gesenius (or Joüon-Muraoka) A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew
                   Perhaps an English bible or two
                   A good set of commentaries would be nice

Other than that, nothing is really necessary.

Ha, I was waiting for you George to comment that forum. It works like a Swiss watch Smile I like your list by the way, but somehow you forgot to include the Reverse Interlinears. Was it intentional? Cool

Bohuslav,

I'm sure you are fully aware of how much I absolutely LOVE interlinears (reverse or not) so I'm assuming this is tongue in cheek.  Who let the snake into the garden?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 12:23 PM

George Somsel:
I'm sure you are fully aware of how much I absolutely LOVE interlinears (reverse or not) so I'm assuming this is tongue in cheek.  Who let the snake into the garden?

Yes it was Smile But seriously speaking I really like your clear cut focus on the original languages as far as the Bible understanding is concerned. I like it very much. You caused me even to come back to my Hebrew studies. I love the language and want to get more into it.

To get back to the topic of the forum, I spent much more than I would ever imagine I would do for the non-paper books. Now I think I crossed the line and I can say I invested more into the Logos books than into the paper books. Don't tell that to my wife please Smile

My problem is, there are so many good things to read and so little time. Sometimes I feel it frustrating. I wish I am still young and can be just student.

Bohuslav

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 12:31 PM

George Somsel:
I would recommend the RSV, NRSV, JPS Tanak (maybe the ESV in a pinch).  Whether The Message would be included depends on your purpose in using it.  It would speak to many where others would not.  It is not and has never been my favorite translation (or even one which I used regularly since I don't have it).  I simply think the man has been frightfully maligned.

Thank you for your list George. I use ESV for my daily reading (actually listening) but I come back to NET Bible a lot. I think I need to look better on the NRSV. It looks many scholars like that translation. I want to find out why. Isn't it great we have all of them in Logos? We have a great study translation now in Czech, I wish we get it into Logos ASAP.

Bohuslav

Posts 651
Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 22 2009 12:33 PM

Bohuslav Wojnar:

[

My problem is, there are so many good things to read and so little time. Sometimes I feel it frustrating. I wish I am still young and can be just student.

Bohuslav, don't we all wish that...or my thoughts are "Why wasn't this kind of resource around when I was going to college and HAD time to read/study with it?!"

But, such is life...and now that I am older, these new resources will make cramming for my final exam even more fun...as all of us are getting closer to the time of HIS appearing.

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 23 2009 9:00 AM

I have bought most of my resources from ebay and special offers from RJCS or Nelson. I have only paid full price for a handful specific titles that I could not obtain otherwise but needed. Hence the Scholar's Library cost me $101 (I watched auctions for a whole year before getting that deal) and WBC $250. I agree with others that there is really much to make us salivate and there comes a point where a new form of sanctified greed needs to be called into question (more! more! more!). Saying this, I cannot begin to quantify how much my learning, ministry and hopefully walk with Christ have been enhanced by the ability to delve deeper in the Word and receive from the teaching of others who through their writings are equipping me for the work of ministry. As is always the case then, a good thing is meant to be received with thanksgiving, sanctified by the Word and prayer, but any excessive use of a good thing turns it into a sin or even a form of idolatry.

With respect for all my fellow servants of the Lord and saints by calling,

Francis

Posts 3770
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 23 2009 9:39 AM

Concerning key resources, it is indeed sobering to consider that ministry has gone on for centuries often with very limited knowledge and it is still the case among populations that simply do not have access to what we have available to us. On the one hand, it is a testament to the perfect ability of the Lord to carry out His purposes even with our limitations.

At times, I have pondered the question of Bible translation. Some languages have only one translation available (and usually are much more grateful for it). The work may have been carried out by a missionary with a very small assisting team and comparatively to English translations, limited scholarship. Translations are made not only on the basis of linguistic considerations but semantic considerations that depend on a correct assessment of the theology/meaning of the text. Projecting this to the scale of the whole Bible, it can be scary to think how awesome of a task this is. Yet one contemplates the works of folks like Wycliffe or Tyndale and it's not that bad. The message of God (not Eugene's) was communicated through these translations and God used them.

This is true not only of availability of knowledge (knowing that some of the ancients were in fact scholars) but also the availability of material resources and ministry training. Can someone preach without taking homiletics? Great preachers of the past have by the grace of God.

This being said, there were also heresies and errors that were due to limited knowledge (one thing of the dismal estate of OT knowledge for so long and even today). So, it's not like it was perfect. It was workable and used by God and still is (think of Gospel for Asia missionaries going to the villages on their bicycles with a bag of tracts on their back). Another way to look at this is the history of revelation: we have more now that the canon is completed than did Moses' contemporaries. Yet how many of us do not look up to someone like Abraham or Enoch who walked with God? What was their scholarship like?

While these things help us ponder the relative weight and importance of resources and whether we are in danger of over-humanizing the process of revelation, training and empowerment for God's work, God did give "the word of knowledge," "the word of wisdom," teachers, prophets, pastors and apostles to His Church. He did not give this to all believers, but to each his/her own gift(s) and calling SO THAT  we would have need for all the members of the body and equal concern SO THAT the work would have to depend on all the parts doing their part linked by joints with Christ as the Head. This tells me that on the one hand, the classic example of the people on an unevangelized island are not doomed to perish for lack of knowledge: God is able to work within their situation and He does (eg, the testimonies of revelatory visions in closed countries). However, it is also God's desire that we submit to one another when applicable. This means that if God makes available to me counsel and teaching from those who are more elders than me, my attitude would be to receive these are gifts to His Church. So, this does not quite land with the "just give me a Bible" and that's all I need (why be part of a congregation at all then?).

The real problem is that while unavailability can challenge and limit our brothers and sisters around the world, we the rich (even as a pastor of a small church in a small town, I am SO rich when I think of this), have over-availability, leading to the danger of unbalance or exaggeration.

Blessings,

Francis

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 23 2009 10:18 AM

Francis:
The real problem is that while unavailability can challenge and limit our brothers and sisters around the world

And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
1 Corinthians 2:1-5

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 211
Steven Yu | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 4:09 PM

just spend another 2k+ for upgrading to logos 4 portfolio editon, thanks for the payment plan!!!

"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理,真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 4:38 PM

Steven Yu:

just spend another 2k+ for upgrading to logos 4 portfolio editon, thanks for the payment plan!!!

Steven, I am happy you could get it. 

I got Portfolio too and I am thankful Logos made it available.  I can not imagine a young user having all these resources at the click of a mouse for the next 5 decades of ministry. But sadly most young people are playing video games or watching TV tonight.

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Jeremy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 4:47 PM

Matthew C Jones:

Steven Yu:

just spend another 2k+ for upgrading to logos 4 portfolio editon, thanks for the payment plan!!!

Steven, I am happy you could get it. 

I got Portfolio too and I am thankful Logos made it available.  I can not imagine a young user having all these resources at the click of a mouse for the next 5 decades of ministry. But sadly most young people are playing video games or watching TV tonight.

I hope Logos is here for good. Computers are obviously going to get better, and the software will need to be updated to work on them. But from the amount of money that people here have spent, I think Logos is a strong company and only getting stronger, even in a recession.

I think I have spent around $2,000, but all at the academic price. I have used my tax returns every year.

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 5:06 PM

JeremyEllis:

I hope Logos is here for good. Computers are obviously going to get better, and the software will need to be updated to work on them. But from the amount of money that people here have spent, I think Logos is a strong company and only getting stronger, even in a recession.

I think I have spent around $2,000, but all at the academic price. I have used my tax returns every year.

Jeremy, That is a substantial investment at the academic rate.  It would be neat to have a "tax return special on ore resources. Did I say more? MORE!

I just hope our greed and critical spirit on the forum does not damage the company we have been so blessed by.

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Posts 77
Adrian Frost | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 5:12 PM

With regards to spending... the church I pastor gives me a monthly book budget and most of the money I get at Christmas and birthdays goes into Logos resources now. Logos 4 Gold from Gold 3 was an early Christmas present. My wife was somewhat surprised when I bounded up the stairs to tell her that Logos 4 was out and that I would like it for Christmas. Her response was "Are you sure". I said "YES" without even hesitating. I think she realised that I'd be getting it the same day (give or take a download or two) Stick out tongue

Anyway, a verse that often comes to mind is James 3:1 "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness."

I am very much aware of the responsability of preaching (a responsability that I love, no complaints here!) and very glad that I have good, maybe the best, tools to do my job. But having those resources does somehow put on an extra sense of responsability for me - both to spend wisely and to use the resources wisely.

I've kept track of my spending since I started with Logos in 2006 and I'm in for over $4000 so far. Having said that, if I'd stayed in the line of work I was in before becoming a pastor (computing) I'm sure I would have spent as much, if not more, on quality tools for the trade. Logos has become something of a priority for me - I love the tech and I love the work I can do with it.

Eglise Protestante Evangélique de Libramont, Belgique - www.epelibramont.com

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