Pricing so high on public domain resources?

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 9:38 AM

Derek's questions are numbered & in Black text. My comments are in Blue text and follow in interlinear format (WoW! another interlinear. Angel )
1.  Many people seem to be saying that the pricing is just too high.  This should be noted by the men in suits over at logos.
Look at the pictures on the Logos sites and you will deduce they don't wear a lot of suits at Logos HQ.
2.  What is community pricing?  Who kept me out of the loop?
Don't know how you missed these: http://www.logos.com/communitypricing erekhttp://www.logos.com/communitypricing/about
3.  If production costs are met as some have said, then why keep the high price?  Bandwidth and storage space is cheap these days...
Some of the hardware Logos has purchased costs more than my lifetime earnings. Those purchases have to be funded somehow.
4.  If you lower the price to something more reasonable, more people will buy.
 Most current pricing can be defended by reasoned explanations. I think we are all asking for more affordable resources. (real life example; It is reasonable to charge $10k for a life saving syrum, but it is not affordable to most cancer patients who have been exposed to Chicken Pox. If a pharmaceutical company wants to provide it to save lives, they have to fund it through lots of sales of other product.
5.  People in that big country to the EAST simply cannot afford a book in their own language that costs 1/4 their monthly salary...  Esp when print editions are so much cheapter and given all the issues above.  Just one example.
 I don't know about Bible publishing in "The East" but most other internationally copyrighted works produced there are "bootleg" (stolen rights.) Audio recordings, college textbooks, Disney DVDs, and even Microsoft software complete with holograms on the disc, are all professionally produced without paying licensing fees to the copyright holders.
6.  Logos pricing is a huge turnoff to many.  They could really do much better by fixing some of their resources pricing...  It smells of commercialism over ministry.
 I find Logos pricing much more defensible than a seminary charging $300 per credit hour to sit in a classroom. And Logos does not claim a non-profit 501c3 tax status like the seminaries do.
7.  This is obviously an emotional issue, as there are so many posts about this.  Again, Logos should note this...
 Yep, people do get emotional about their money, their religion, and even their favorite football team (whether that be American football or real football!) Big Smile

Derek:
I would buy MUCH more logos stuff if only it were cheaper. 

So would I.  I would also drive a Lamborghini if they were as cheap as my Buick.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 10:03 AM

Matthew C Jones:
Yep, people do get emotional about their money, their religion, and even their favorite football team (whether that be American football or real football!) Big Smile

American football is REAL football.  The football wannabe which is also known as soccer reminds me of when I was a kid when we would take a can and kick it back and forth.  American football is a MAN's game.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 10:06 AM

Logos-ites? It really depends on the computer. A small minority are 'Slowgos-ites'. But I will have to say that the Logos defenders tend to be more tame on this site than some of the others. At times, some of the text can almost melt your computer screen. Sort of like in Exodus, when it 'melts your nose'.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 10:46 AM

Giovanni Baggio:
I have stated my sentiments before and what logos did was to delete my posts.

That is interesting to know. You have joined a very small fraternity. So few comments or threads have been deleted.

  • There was the morning a hacker redirected all posts to a porn site. (deleted, security tightened with no recurrence.)
  • There was the time a new poster used Joe Miller's photo as his avatar..... (deleted, banned & as rumor has it: executed Devil.)
  • There was the personal attack on another poster (thread deleted.)
  • There was the attack on a certain minister (thread locked.)
  • There was a thread that attacked a certain theological camp (deleted.)
  • Of course, the many spam offers to sell products (deleted)

What amazes me is the threads and posts that have been allowed to stay.

Giovanni Baggio:
Anyway, I'm officially dropping the subject, if anyone else wants to response, they can be my guests; nevertheless, they'll be completely ignored.

Your silence will be appreciated by more than a few. Meanwhile, consider this: Is it possible people are responding to you to help you?  I have been confronted in these forums many times because my "accuser" had the Christian charity to do so. And many times they helped me recognize when I was off base or unaware of some fact.

Ephesians 4: 15      James 3:1-10     1 Corinthians 13:1-4      Psalm 51:12-15   (the whole Psalm is excellent)

Peace to you Giovanni.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 11:40 AM

Jim VanSchoonhoven:
Matthew, thanks for your words of encouragement, but this is not about me getting cheap public domain books through community pricing.  In my heart it is about getting study material into the hands of the poorer countries of the world.

Jim, I appreciate your heart for the 2/3rds world and the need for theological training of church leaders there. I share that concern.

There are two ways to go here: first, help individual church leaders get a copy of Logos. The biggest problem with this, and I've seen this happen in many ways, anyone who can't afford the software, really can't afford the equipment to run it -- and if they are 'gifted' with either (or both), eventually a problem develops that renders the technology useless, since they can't afford to get it properly repaired. A lot of good intentions are now trophies, paper-weights, or trash in 3rd world countries.

Another option is to get Logos into the hands of multiple users: seminaries, group-owners, etc. But as I think about this option, which I think is more practical, and more likely to be sustainable, I can't get around the fact that Logos is designed for individuals, and does not grant licenses to libraries or seminaries for any reason. The reason Logos does this, as I understand it, is simplicity of product design and an interest in maintaining sales to individuals to maintain support for program development. I don't see Logos budging on product design for some time.

That said, I'm quite sure Logos shares your and my interest in 3rd world leadership development. So it makes me wonder about a few things. First, would it be possible for Logos to develop a program, based on L4 that excluded all user files (no notes, no clippings, etc.), or would allow them, without allowing them to be saved (all info would need to be copy/pasted to another program by the user, else it would be lost). The other thing required would be an administrator to oversee the basic functions of program and resource updates, settings, etc. This would satisfy the majority of the mult-user design issues. I'm not saying that would be easy, but it would be necessary for a single instance of Logos to work with multiple users (which, as I said above, is more likely, IMHO, to be sustainable).

Secondly, to protect Logos' market, even in 3rd world countries, the program would need to have some kind of internet connection at least to license the program the first time it was set up. These days that could be done by a missionary's cell or satellite phone, with the right kind of setup.

Finally, to make this work, I think a foundation should be established to purchase the equipment and the base package to run the program for those seminaries and/or church leadership groups, and restrict itself to only working in those places where it is likely that seminary students and other church leaders would not be able to afford neither the equipment nor the program. Perhaps the foundation would need to undertake funding the development of the changes to the basic program to make this work. Initial costs could be staggering, and perhaps prohibitive. This foundation would need to incorporate as a 501c3 in the U.S., and partner with Logos under a set of strict guidelines developed by Logos and the foundation. This would be highly complex to setup, and way beyond my abilities and training. But there could be someone somewhere with the expertise to do this.

As I see it, the above or a variation of the above, would be the best, if not the only way to get Logos in the places you and I have in mind.

The other alternative is to recognize that since Logos is not designed for multi-user use, and is not affordable to 3rd world church leaders (neither in terms of resources/program, nor equipment to run the program), that 3rd world countries really need to find a different program and set of resources to work with. That would be lamentable, IMHO, since I, as you, want to get the best tools in the hands of these people. But it may be the simplest and best option available.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 2961
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 12:40 PM

George Somsel:

American football is REAL football.  The football wannabe which is also known as soccer reminds me of when I was a kid when we would take a can and kick it back and forth.  American football is a MAN's game.

What we call soccer is REAL foot ball - Foot is all that hits the ball (except for one special person)

in American football if your foot hits the ball the other team gets it - Better name is HUG BALL - If you Hug the ball longer and further then the others hug it you win - Foot it [punts and missed Field goals] and you lose. 

To get back on topic and forum rules: Question: if we watch it too much [real, HUG or soccer] how does that effect our salvation?  [Please post your sermon on the subject [in the sermon section] and post a link to it here - list all resources used and the search criteria used and any other use of Logos]

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 12:50 PM

David Ames:

To get back on topic and forum rules: Question: if we watch it too much [real, HUG or soccer] how does that effect our salvation?  [Please post your sermon on the subject [in the sermon section] and post a link to it here - list all resources used and the search criteria used and any other use of Logos]

Remember the words of our Lord

Luke 17:33 (NRSV)

33Those who try to make their FOOTBALL secure will lose it, but those who lose their FOOTBALL will keep it.   Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 5321
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 12:53 PM

Giovanni Baggio:

Don't worry, the logos-ites don't bother me at all, on the contrary they make me laugh because they act like they've been brain-washed or something...LOL...I love Logos Bible Software, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything they do and accept everything they sell for the price they sell it for....much less believe all their claims.  Anyway, thanks for understanding! I hope SOME can learn something...blessings!

Yes well I agree some people can be far too protective over Logos, often times i find them High priced in all their resources. Thru The Bible for example, another company offers it regularly for $99 currently on sale now for $79 and if I were to get it now I could buy it for $59 because I have a $20 off coupon just mailed to me this morning. Logos price is $174, now both company's had to put it into their own formats, and pay royalties Nelson charges. Now I won't say Logos has no right to charge that much, but what I will say is the overhead seems very high. And i did see someone talk about the quality of scholarship of a different volume, if I ever purchase Thru the Bible be it from logos or more likely the other company it will have nothing to do with the quality of the scholarship being far too conservative for me, but will be for the wonderful writing that can draw you into the Bible. If scholarship were the criteria for wanting a work i dare say a large portion of the books on Logos would fail in my mind. People find books valuable for more than cutting edge scholarship. The Spirit can move in many strange and wonderful ways whihc is why i have some of the more radically conservative items in my Logos library.

All i really wanted to say and point out is Logos prices are often high but no one is forcing us to buy the items and indeed, sometimes i have bought items that logos sells for half the price at CDB or Amazon, (although fewer and fewer products are being released so it seems in CD format for mainstream distribution). No one necessarily likes having to pay more but there are options, and there are worse things than having to have multiple Bible software programs.

-Dan 

Posts 128
Derek | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 5:17 PM

Jim VanSchoonhoven:
The biggest problem with this, and I've seen this happen in many ways, anyone who can't afford the software, really can't afford the equipment to run it -- and if they are 'gifted' with either (or both), eventually a problem develops that renders the technology useless, since they can't afford to get it properly repaired. A lot of good intentions are now trophies, paper-weights, or trash in 3rd world countries.

 

Lived overseas in developing countries for 10 years.

 My experience is the opposite.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 5:34 PM

Derek:

Jim VanSchoonhoven:
The biggest problem with this, and I've seen this happen in many ways, anyone who can't afford the software, really can't afford the equipment to run it -- and if they are 'gifted' with either (or both), eventually a problem develops that renders the technology useless, since they can't afford to get it properly repaired. A lot of good intentions are now trophies, paper-weights, or trash in 3rd world countries.

 

Lived overseas in developing countries for 10 years.

 My experience is the opposite.

Just to be clear Jim didn't say that I did (Rich DeRuiter). Still, I'm glad your experience is different than mine.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 128
Derek | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 5:47 PM

Matthew C Jones:

1.  Many people seem to be saying that the pricing is just too high.  This should be noted by the men in suits over at logos.
Look at the pictures on the Logos sites and you will deduce they don't wear a lot of suits at Logos HQ.

Well, shoot. On account of attire, there goes my whole argument. 

Matthew C Jones:

2.  What is community pricing?  Who kept me out of the loop?
Don't know how you missed these: http://www.logos.com/communitypricing erekhttp://www.logos.com/communitypricing/about

Bookmarked and watching...

Matthew C Jones:

3.  If production costs are met as some have said, then why keep the high price?  Bandwidth and storage space is cheap these days...
Some of the hardware Logos has purchased costs more than my lifetime earnings. Those purchases have to be funded somehow.

This argument - and many of the other arguments are but speculation into the reasons of the high prices.  There are other companies who also offer such works for free or for much discounted rates, and they have to purchase expensive servers too.  Apples to Apples (and I am not talking amazon here) Other companies are able to offer less cost on their works which are also hosted on very expensive machines.

Matthew C Jones:

4.  If you lower the price to something more reasonable, more people will buy.
 Most current pricing can be defended by reasoned explanations. I think we are all asking for more affordable resources. (real life example; It is reasonable to charge $10k for a life saving syrum, but it is not affordable to most cancer patients who have been exposed to Chicken Pox. If a pharmaceutical company wants to provide it to save lives, they have to fund it through lots of sales of other product.

So you are saying that the prices of Logos are just like the practices of large pharmaceutical companies that so many people are enraged about!  Interesting choice.  ;)

Matthew C Jones:

5.  People in that big country to the EAST simply cannot afford a book in their own language that costs 1/4 their monthly salary...  Esp when print editions are so much cheapter and given all the issues above.  Just one example.
 I don't know about Bible publishing in "The East" but most other internationally copyrighted works produced there are "bootleg" (stolen rights.) Audio recordings, college textbooks, Disney DVDs, and even Microsoft software complete with holograms on the disc, are all professionally produced without paying licensing fees to the copyright holders.

Those companies who are winning in the game in Asia are the ones that are pricing their items at a reasonable cost that people can afford.  Piracy does not exist simply because people are evil.  Ability to afford is one of the biggest factors.  I know lots of people who buy genuine products at a higher price, if they can afford it.  This by no means makes piracy legitimate.  But you need to understand all the factors into something like this and not just sit on the sidelines condemning them for their actions...   I was in the software industry for years, and I abhor piracy.

Matthew C Jones:

6.  Logos pricing is a huge turnoff to many.  They could really do much better by fixing some of their resources pricing...  It smells of commercialism over ministry.
 I find Logos pricing much more defensible than a seminary charging $300 per credit hour to sit in a classroom. And Logos does not claim a non-profit 501c3 tax status like the seminaries do.
7.  This is obviously an emotional issue, as there are so many posts about this.  Again, Logos should note this...
 Yep, people do get emotional about their money, their religion, and even their favorite football team (whether that be American football or real football!) Big Smile

Derek:
I would buy MUCH more logos stuff if only it were cheaper. 

So would I.  I would also drive a Lamborghini if they were as cheap as my Buick.

Me too! 

And Logos will simply have to understand that I and many many others will choose to purchase our Buicks elsewhere because what to them is a lamborghini:

     1.  Is not a lamborghini to me -

     2.  When it is 2-3-4-5x the cost of purchasing it elsewhere, it is not worth it

 

 

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 6:27 PM

Since a lot of folks are complaining about the high prices of public domain resources, why doesn't Logos just allow loading of open source SWORD Project and ThML files?  That would seem to be a simple solution.

Director of Zoeproject 

www.zoeproject.com

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 7:29 PM

Tony Thomas:

Since a lot of folks are complaining about the high prices of public domain resources, why doesn't Logos just allow loading of open source SWORD Project and ThML files?  That would seem to be a simple solution.

I wonder if that would open the door for anyone to produce anything that may or may not be protected under copyright.  I could see where Logos wouldn't want to open up a copyright infringement fiasco in a quickly changing copyright law environment.

Was there some way Logos could control personally made documents in Logos 3 or were they covered under private use?

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 7:40 PM

Paul Newsome:

Tony Thomas:

Since a lot of folks are complaining about the high prices of public domain resources, why doesn't Logos just allow loading of open source SWORD Project and ThML files?  That would seem to be a simple solution.

I wonder if that would open the door for anyone to produce anything that may or may not be protected under copyright.  I could see where Logos wouldn't want to open up a copyright infringement fiasco in a quickly changing copyright law environment.

Was there some way Logos could control personally made documents in Logos 3 or were they covered under private use?

 

My understanding is that if you just had the ability to load them locally and they are not backed up to Logos' servers, they would be free from any liability.

Director of Zoeproject 

www.zoeproject.com

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 7:43 PM

Paul Newsome:

Tony Thomas:

Since a lot of folks are complaining about the high prices of public domain resources, why doesn't Logos just allow loading of open source SWORD Project and ThML files?  That would seem to be a simple solution.

I wonder if that would open the door for anyone to produce anything that may or may not be protected under copyright.  I could see where Logos wouldn't want to open up a copyright infringement fiasco in a quickly changing copyright law environment.

Was there some way Logos could control personally made documents in Logos 3 or were they covered under private use?

The PBB in L3 was of two types:  (1) Strictly personal use  (2) Those shareable with others able to read PBBs.  Both had restrictions that only public domain works could be copied.  In L3 I suppose it would be possible to make PBBs of copyrighted works so long as one didn't share them with others (in other words -- keep it a secret).  I'm not sure that this would be possible in L4 since they seem to have the ability to know what you have on your computer, but I would expect them to continue the prohibition of works under copyright.  Let's face it, they would open themselves to suits were they to do otherwise.  I know of 1 or 2 cases in the L3 PBB where users were told that the works were copyrighted and agreed to remove them.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 128
Derek | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 10:23 PM

What is to come of PBB? It was promised for the first half of the year, but has not materialized yet.

 Didn't get much of a discount on some of the Public Domain stuff so I am waiting to get access back again through PBB...

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 29 2010 11:44 PM

Dan Francis:
some people can be far too protective over Logos,

Most think Simon Peter was a little too zealous lopping off the ear of the high priest's servant. After all, Jesus did not need Peter's protection and warned against using violence.  I think it was more a case of extreme gratitude. You know, the one who has been forgiven more, has more love for the benefactor. Logos has not asked me to defend or praise them. I venture to guess they would prefer I keep my mouth shut. But I have been treated more than fair by Logos and see the extreme benefit of having the Logos software and resources for Bible study.

Dan Francis:
now both company's had to put it into their own formats, and pay royalties Nelson charges. Now I won't say Logos has no right to charge that much,

If I am not mistaken Thru the Bible by J Vernon McGee is published by Nelson, a third party. You & I do not know if the price Logos sells it for is frozen by Nelson. Consider what Dan Pritchett said regarding certain third party resources and the inability for Logos to offer heavy discounts on them. Now just suppose that Nelson or Zondervan KNOW that Logos is far superior to the other Bible software that is available. Why would a third party publisher charge as much for their resource in an inferior format knowing it is not as useful to the customer as the Logos version? It is similar to Ages software offering cheap PDF versions of Calvin or Spurgeon. The PDF format is inferior to Logos format. Everybody knows it, and desires to have the best. Buying Bible study resources in dead tree format is also inferior to having them searchable and linked in Logos format. So comparing CBD and Amazon's hardcopy prices to Logos' functionality is also immaterial.

Dan Francis:
If scholarship were the criteria for wanting a work i dare say a large portion of the books on Logos would fail in my mind. People find books valuable for more than cutting edge scholarship. The Spirit can move in many strange and wonderful ways whihc is why i have some of the more radically conservative items in my Logos library.

So true.  I love J Vernon McGee, Harry Ironside and M. R. De Haan for their non-scholarly presentation of Gospel truth.

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 12:39 AM

Derek:

Matthew C Jones:

3.  If production costs are met as some have said, then why keep the high price?  Bandwidth and storage space is cheap these days...
Some of the hardware Logos has purchased costs more than my lifetime earnings. Those purchases have to be funded somehow.

This argument - and many of the other arguments are but speculation into the reasons of the high prices.  There are other companies who also offer such works for free or for much discounted rates, and they have to purchase expensive servers too.

I bet the other Bible software companies don't own one of these:   http://www.logos.com/features/bookscanner

Those other companies do not download 11,000 books to 750,000 customers either.

Derek:

Matthew C Jones:

4.  If you lower the price to something more reasonable, more people will buy.
 Most current pricing can be defended by reasoned explanations. I think we are all asking for more affordable resources. (real life example; It is reasonable to charge $10k for a life saving syrum, but it is not affordable to most cancer patients who have been exposed to Chicken Pox. If a pharmaceutical company wants to provide it to save lives, they have to fund it through lots of sales of other product.

So you are saying that the prices of Logos are just like the practices of large pharmaceutical companies that so many people are enraged about!  Interesting choice.  ;)

Yes, the patient was a two year old family member who underwent 54 months of chemotherapy. The serum was delivered on two occasions in the cockpits of jumbo jets. The life-saving drug was provided free to the child. But a lot of "enraged people" had to pay for aspirin and cough drops to develop that serum. Likewise, Logos seems to be developing resources that will have to be subsidized by other projects due to the low return on investment expected.

Derek:
Those companies who are winning in the game in Asia are the ones that are pricing their items at a reasonable cost that people can afford.  Piracy does not exist simply because people are evil.  Ability to afford is one of the biggest factors.  I know lots of people who buy genuine products at a higher price, if they can afford it.  This by no means makes piracy legitimate.  But you need to understand all the factors into something like this and not just sit on the sidelines condemning them for their actions...   I was in the software industry for years, and I abhor piracy.

Current version of 3D Studio Max (Chinese bootleg) was sold on eBay for $8.  Cheap  "international version" textbooks are illegally sold online. I have observed pirate boards since before Boardwatch magazine days & the FBI sweep.   I can sit outside their world and condemn them in ignorance. I can sit on the sidelines and condemn them. Or I can condemn them from the inside. Take your pick. Piracy exists because of lawless people; "workers of iniquity"

Derek:

And Logos will simply have to understand that I and many many others will choose to purchase our Buicks elsewhere because what to them is a lamborghini:

     1.  Is not a lamborghini to me -

I know the difference between my Buick and the Lamborghini.    Uh, Huh. Cool

 I own WS, QV, BW, and many others in addition to Logos.   I can see the differences

Logos is a Lamborghini to me. But maybe I am easily fooled? Naw. Stick out tongue

 

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 128
Derek | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 5:16 AM

Matthew C Jones:
Those other companies do not download 11,000 books to 750,000 customers either. 

And other companies have stuff that Logos doesn't ...  There are a lot of websites that serve more books to more customers as well...

I still havn't seen any hard figures, with sales ratios, profits, etc. and anything comparing it to any other company's similar costs, profits, etc.  to see that this is anything more than mere speculation  for this reason for the public domain books being so much higher...

Matthew C Jones:

Yes, the patient was a two year old family member who underwent 54 months of chemotherapy. 

Listen, if you went through that, I hope all has come out well.  Thats deep stuff, and nothing to make light of...

Never said that the drug industry was evil...

Still think it is funny to use the health industry to justify Logos' high prices when a majority of americans think that the current health system is not working.  (Not to say anything for or against any current policies.)

Matthew C Jones:

I have observed pirate boards since before Boardwatch magazine days & the FBI sweep.   I can sit outside their world and condemn them in ignorance. I can sit on the sidelines and condemn them. Or I can condemn them from the inside. Take your pick. Piracy exists because of lawless people; "workers of iniquity"

Piracy done by kids that just want everything for NOTHING is one thing.  People needing access to tools but not being able to purchase them because they cost 1 year's salary is another thing... 

The politics and the economics of Piracy is more complicated than just saying, "They are sinners."  Simply telling them, "no, that's bad" is not going to solve it.  If you study the economics of piracy, when options that are affordable are offered, piracy goes way down...  King David stole the food from the temple because he was hungry... Does that make it right?  Well....  He was a believer in God...  What did our Lord say about his actions?

To say that piracy exists because of sin is an overly simplistic answer.

Not saying you are doing this -  but too many believers sit in their christian circles condemning the world outside. 

Remember - Some of those "Workers of iniquity" you are condemning for using a pirated copy of windows or some bible program have sat in jail numerous times- for years - for their faith. 

So go on and sit on your sideline and call them "workers of iniquity."  Some of those "workers of iniquity" will be sitting with King David sharing stories...

Some of those sitting in their Christian circles hurling condemning insults will be surprised to find themselves on the outside with the Pharisees...

 

Posts 550
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 5:39 AM

I am serious about this question, I am not trying to make a point but ask this in sincerity:

 

Should a Christian company's business/pricing methods  be compared to a secular company's? Is this fair? 

 

PLEASE UNDERSTAND , I AM NOT MAKING A POINT, I AM ASKING A QUESTION.

 

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