Pricing so high on public domain resources?

Page 6 of 8 (153 items) « First ... < Previous 4 5 6 7 8 Next >
This post has 152 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 8:03 AM

ChinaRunner:

I said David stole the bread.

You said that David did not steal the bread.

I quoted Jesus as saying it was not lawful to take it. 

I intrepret that as big J saying he stole it,  You don't.    FINE.

I'm not playing these games with scripture. 

This is the last note from me to you. 

Feel free to have the last word. 

Good bye!

"Big J" didn't say he stole it; he said it was not lawful for him to eat it.  If you read again the account of David and the priest of Nob, you will find that they gave it to him.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 8:38 AM

Shawn Drewett:

It's sad to have a reputation such as George has on these forums. What good does scriptural knowledge do when you don't put it into practice?

James 3:13

"Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." 

 

New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Jas 3:13). LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

Are your arguments so feeble that you must now resort to personal attacks?  Do you now presume to speak for the entire forum?  It seems to me that I recall something about the attitude of a certain pharisee who prayed "God, I thank thee that I am not like other men."  It seems he thought himself righteous, but who is said to have left being justified?  Is anyone who disagrees with you failing to show "good behavior"?  At least I'm not a cry-baby demanding more and more as though it were my right.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 8:55 AM

George and Shawn please consider this, is this really where either you George or you Shawn want this thread to be?

I know my desire is simply to let Logos know that I believe their public domain prices are too high, and my hope is that something can be done to lower them so more folks that live in the poor house can have access to good books and Logos.

Does that make me good and Logos bad?  I don't think so!

I really don't think either of you are enjoying where your conversation has taken you.  I say this because I have been in these types of converstations before and in the end, they were not what I desired.

Remember the grace that God has given all of us in Christ.

Your brother in Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

Posts 2869
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 8:58 AM
GeorgeSurpriseWink, Please let it go. George,

"It's time to put a smile on your face, laugh a little and go enjoy yourself.  That's what God wants you to do.  So, get up off your prayer bench and put a little lotion on those callouses so they can go away.  In the words of a once popular song, "Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think; Enjoy yourself while you're still in the pink."  Make sure you're not practicing your piety before men to be seen by them".    george
gfsomsel

… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.

- Jan Hus

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 9:00 AM

Ted Hans:
GeorgeSurpriseWink,
"It's time to put a smile on your face, laugh a little and go enjoy yourself.  That's what God wants you to do.  So, get up off your prayer bench and put a little lotion on those callouses so they can go away.  In the words of a once popular song, "Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think; Enjoy yourself while you're still in the pink."  Make sure you're not practicing your piety before men to be seen by them".    george
gfsomsel

… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.

- Jan Hus

Good advice, Ted.  I hope to be able to follow it.  After all, man's first full day on earth after having had a world prepared for him was literally a stroll in the park.  See, I'm smiling !  Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 550
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 9:04 AM

My comments were wrong and I am sorry. I'm afraid I'm guilty of high jacking. I've learned it is very difficult to interact with the forums without eventually being upset by some comment from some one.Nevertheless, what's wrong is wrong. Blessed are the peacemakers..........got to remember this.

Posts 2869
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 9:06 AM

George Somsel:
Good advice, Ted.  I hope to be able to follow it.  After all, man's first full day on earth after having had a world prepared for him was literally a stroll in the park.  See, I'm smiling !  Big Smile

Thanks big guy, much appreciatedGeeked.

Ted

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 9:08 AM

Shawn Drewett:

My comments were wrong and I am sorry. I'm afraid I'm guilty of high jacking. I've learned it is very difficult to interact with the forums without eventually being upset by some comment from some one.Nevertheless, what's wrong is wrong. Blessed are the peacemakers..........got to remember this.

I won't say "Forget it" since that is precisely what none of us should do, but let's see if we can't bury the hatchett somewhere other than one another's backs.  Peace, bro

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 11:06 AM

ChinaRunner:
I hope all has come out well. 
Yes. He was healed and has enjoyed good health for years. My point was good things are done by imperfect actors who may not always do it the way we think best. Many would object to paying a higher cost for their own consumptions even when it benefits the truly helpless. If I have to pay a higher price for Logos PD titles to see the many good free projects provided to others, then so be it. I will likely never get an academic discount, seminary scholarship, iPhone  or many other Logos freebies. I will not begrudge Logos blessing others.

ChinaRunner:
The politics and the economics of Piracy is more complicated than just saying, "They are sinners."  Simply telling them, "no, that's bad" is not going to solve it.  If you study the economics of piracy, when options that are affordable are offered, piracy goes way down... 

Only because people will sell out a birthright of good conscience for a soup bowl of stolen software.  Matthew 16:26
 
When a believer justifies stealing because he wants ("needs") it, the sin of theft was preceded by the sin of covetousness. Why not just justify adultery, murder, deceit in the name of "needing" something God says we have no claim to? Have we not seen several famous preachers leave their wives and steal another man's wife. Romans 6:1-11

ChinaRunner:
Remember - Some of those "Workers of iniquity" you are condemning for using a pirated copy of windows or some bible program have sat in jail numerous times- for years - for their faith. 

I am not in a position to condemn anyone. God is the one who sets the standard.Psalm 51:6  No man has a right to lower that standard. "Workers of iniquity" is better translated those who practice lawlessness. If some believers jailed for their faith are stealing software, they are right where they belong.  Romans 13:4  1 Peter 3:14-17

In the parable of the Pearl of Great Price the merchant "sold all that he had, and bought it." Matthew 13:45-46  If I value Logos resources as a pearl of great price, I willingly sell what I have to purchase it. (Incidentally, that is what I have been doing the past year or two.)

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 10888
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 11:11 AM

Shawn Drewett:
It's sad to have a reputation such as George has on these forums.

Comments deleted because of subsequent posts.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 11:19 AM

(edited to stay on topic)  Angel

FYI:  Catena Aurea: Commentary on the Four Gospels (8 vols.)    just shipped this morning.

 

I can't wait to get   The Works of John Owen (17 vols.)    That is one PD title I missed in Pre-Pub. I did land his Hebrews commentary.

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2869
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 11:28 AM

I wish folks will just let this thread die. I think both sides have made their point, no need any longer to stoke the fire. When brothers have apologised or agreed to disagree I think It is best to move on.

Blessing

Ted

Edit

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 2961
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 12:40 PM

What we need is a thread editor

There were many very good points made here

If only we could just keep those points

Posts 128
Derek | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 6:03 PM

Matthew C Jones:

Only because people will sell out a birthright of good conscience for a soup bowl of stolen software.  Matthew 16:26
 
When a believer justifies stealing because he wants ("needs") it, the sin of theft was preceded by the sin of covetousness. Why not just justify adultery, murder, deceit in the name of "needing" something God says we have no claim to? Have we not seen several famous preachers leave their wives and steal another man's wife. Romans 6:1-11

I am not in a position to condemn anyone. God is the one who sets the standard.Psalm 51:6  No man has a right to lower that standard. "Workers of iniquity" is better translated those who practice lawlessness. If some believers jailed for their faith are stealing software, they are right where they belong.  Romans 13:4  1 Peter 3:14-17

In the parable of the Pearl of Great Price the merchant "sold all that he had, and bought it." Matthew 13:45-46  If I value Logos resources as a pearl of great price, I willingly sell what I have to purchase it. (Incidentally, that is what I have been doing the past year or two.)

Again, I agree. Its wrong.  So why are you trying to convince me?

Many in this forum love using that Bible as a weapon against their brother, but many in this forum need to work on applying what it says. 

Proverbs 4:5-7, John 3:17.  Oh... James 2:25

 

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 6:27 PM

ChinaRunner:

Many in this forum love using that Bible as a weapon against their brother, but many in this forum need to work on applying what it says. 

I disagree.  It is not "many" who need to work on applying what it says.  It is all.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 112
BS | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 9:58 PM

I frequently notice threads like this one on the logos forums.  Usually my conclusion is the same: many people in ministry simply do not have a business mindset or understand business thinking.  People are shocked that Logos would charge more than might be considered reasonable or that Logos claims outrageously inflated "print value" or "retail value" figures in their marketing. 

Understand that Logos is not a ministry.  Logos exists to make a profit.  From my vantage point Logos does not operate to see the Great Commission fulfilled or to see impoverished pastors receive better training and resources.

Products are worth what people are willing to pay.  If Logos wanted to increase their profits they could find the highest amount people were willing to pay for each individual resource and price it at or slightly above that amount.  (Hint: I think they do just that). 

It should come as no surprise that certain resources are more expensive than others of equal size, copyright status, and tagging workload.  You aren't paying Logos an hourly wage for the time their developers spend. 

Logos doesn't need to justify its prices to the masses.  If the masses get fed up enough they will stop doing business with Logos, and some do.  But where else do you turn?  Personally I wish there were a more affordable company offering software and titles like Logos that also had a vision to see the Great Commission fulfilled through their products but there isn't.  So for me I just suck it up, turn my head and hold my nose when it's time to order books.  We're (many of us) Americans, we do this all the time.  Some orders are worse than others in this regard.  For me, package deals are a happy thing, but  buying individual resources is not so happy, especially when I pay for them twice after a while when I upgrade packages.

If you want to do something about those poor pastors with no training (and hopefully you are thinking about places where there aren't even pastors, a church, or Scriptures at all) you should ask the church why they aren't doing more to accomplish God's purposes among the least reached peoples of the world.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 10:15 PM

Bryan Smith:

If you want to do something about those poor pastors with no training (and hopefully you are thinking about places where there aren't even pastors, a church, or Scriptures at all) you should ask the church why they aren't doing more to accomplish God's purposes among the least reached peoples of the world.

That is pretty much what I have been thinking.  I recall that the Obamination was attempting to claim that Jesus was attempting to encourage us to help our neighbor by asking "Am I my brother's keeper."  Aside from the fact that Jesus didn't say that (ever hear of Cain?), that was not a government task but an individual one.  Similarly, it is not the job of a business have as its main object to help needy pastors.  Its job is to produce goods and services at a reasonable price at which it can continue in business and grow.   If you wish to be your brother's keeper (admirable ambition), do it yourself or form a group to do it.  If you don't have resources to invest in obtaining software for needy pastors, volunteer your time and effort to move the project forward.  Don't just sit around and complain about it.  It is your job, it is my job, it is everyone's job to help others.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 30 2010 11:45 PM

However, I am asking do we also have a right to point out what we think are prices that are out of line, I believe giving feed back to Logos is one of the purposes of these forms. And posting it here may help others that feel the same way to also let Logos know how they feel and how people they come in contact with feel.

These forms are a little jaded.  They are a little bit like having a yes man tell you what you want to hear rather than telling you what people are really saying.

I also believe from my own experience with Logos and others that  I am in contact with that their high public domain prices turn a lot of people off, this is sad to me, since I believe it is the best study resource system on the market. 

I know it might be selfish but I would like to see more believers using Logos and I believe lower prices would help that to come true.

I also believe that getting the poor involved with Logos through cheap package deals would lead to more sales of Logos copyrighted books later on, when people see the value of the system and need a copyrighted book they want it in Logos.  Look at how many of us have good books in other systems, but once we see the value of the Logos system we pay the price to get the book in Logos.  This only happens because we have used the Logos program and see the value of the program.

I would love to see Logos offer dirt cheap pdf files of all their public domain books. They could still make a some money on them and get millions started using computers with bible related books.  Then take them the next step and show them how Logos helps you get some much more out of those public domain books.  Do this by offering low price public domain packages.  It doesn't take a lot of smarts to see the difference between a book's usefulness in Logos compared to the same book in a pdf file.  Once they discover this they will desire to move their pdf books into logos as they can afford to do it.  At the same time they will see the usefulness of putting copyrighted books into  Logos.  I believe Logos could make money at each step and help a lot more people.

However, I can't wait for Logos to see this and decide to do it, so I work with the best that I can.  I give away 100's of copies of a free program called The Word, it allows you to make and search collections, make your own verse by verse commentary, or topic by topic comments.  It allows you to make your own books and tag them and many other features.  It has over 1200 free public domain modules on the internet. 

It is a great free product, but it is not Logos but it is the best I can find for meeting the needs of those that want to study but don't have much money.   And now they are starting to have copyrighted books that can be added at very good prices.  Soon they will even have BDAG, but I am afraid it won't be cheap.

As I have the money I also give away copies of the PDF public domain books that I have. 

I still believe that Logos public domain books cost too much and that in the long run that is hurting them to get their books and system in the market.

I really don't mean to pick on Logos and did not feel like I was, but maybe I need to reconsider.

Your brother in Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 1 2010 1:14 AM

Jim VanSchoonhoven:

I also believe that getting the poor involved with Logos through cheap package deals would lead to more sales of Logos copyrighted books later on, when people see the value of the system and need a copyrighted book they want it in Logos.  Look at how many of us have good books in other systems, but once we see the value of the Logos system we pay the price to get the book in Logos.  This only happens because we have used the Logos program and see the value of the program.

I would love to see Logos offer dirt cheap pdf files of all their public domain books. They could still make a some money on them and get millions started using computers with bible related books.  Then take them the next step and show them how Logos helps you get some much more out of those public domain books.  Do this by offering low price public domain packages.  It doesn't take a lot of smarts to see the difference between a book's usefulness in Logos compared to the same book in a pdf file.  Once they discover this they will desire to move their pdf books into logos as they can afford to do it.  At the same time they will see the usefulness of putting copyrighted books into  Logos.  I believe Logos could make money at each step and help a lot more people.

Having Logos do it is the wrong approach.  I don't think "dirt cheap" is the best idea.  I would favor some form of foundation which would underwrite the purchase of software. It should never be given away free of charge.  When something is received too easily it tends to not be appreciated.  If certain items would cost a year's pay, a week's pay might be appropriate.  A week's pay might be a real sacrifice to someone who is at or near poverty level, but they will appreciate what they have received then.  Don't shift from the Obamination's idea of having big daddy government do it to having big daddy Logos do it.  It is your and my responsibility to be our brother's keeper, not some organization.

.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 1 2010 6:01 AM

George

1) Please keep your party politics and your personal attacks away from here! I don't think you want to know what I think about the guys you obviously vote for, and their politics.

2a) I never appreciate something I've had to pay dearly for anywhere near as much as I would appreciate it if it had been free. In fact, to me the value of something tend to decrease pretty exponentially to the increase in price. Most of the really expensive stuff I have is just gathering dust. It's the cheap stuff I'm using all the time. I would have appreciated Logos a million times more if it had been free. 

2b) I'll make sure to ask Christ to charge you a very high price for your salvation, since obviously you won't appreciate it otherwise. A few hundred years in Purgatury, will that be enough to make you value it? Or should I make it a few thousand? 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Page 6 of 8 (153 items) « First ... < Previous 4 5 6 7 8 Next > | RSS