Which Mac laptop

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Posts 34
Drew | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Dec 2 2010 10:49 AM

Ok, I'm getting a new laptop for writing and research.  I will be using logos, word and the internet for research.  That will be its main (if not only use).  Maybe use for a powerpoint presentation but that's it.   I want to go with a Mac.   I will be taking it back and forth to work, setting up a docking type situation at the office.   

I have found logos lags on my mac desktop so I'm worried about it on a laptop.   Thus I was looking at the high end macbook pro 15 inch.  It has higher end graphics card with 512 dedicated memory), faster hard drive, and faster cpu.   However it is more expensive ($2000) has shorter battery life, and is heavier!!!!!.   Here is my question:

Would the 13 inch macbook with the different graphics card (NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory vs. GeForce 330m 512MB of GDDR3 memory on 2.66GHz configuration)

13 inch has 5400rpm hard drive vs 7000 rpm harddrive...

but it is over pound lighter?

 

Any thoughts, thanks

 

Posts 34
Drew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 2 2010 10:51 AM

meant to say... will the 13 inch with slower parts work fine?

Posts 53
Ryan Schildroth | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 2 2010 11:33 AM

I'm doing all those same things (and more) with my nearly 3 year old MacBook without a dedicated graphics card. I think you will be fine with any of the new mac portables. 

Other than indexing, the increased processing power of the Pro will largely go unused with what you intend to do with the computer. You can always schedule indexing for a time when you are not using your machine. 

The only other consideration is the increase in screen real estate with the Pro. I run a secondary monitor on my laptop, so that's not an issue for me.

MacBook Pro (Late 2011) | 2.3 GHz Core i5 | 1TB HD | 8GB RAM | 10.12 Sierra | Scholar's Library +

Posts 7
Geoff Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 2 2010 11:43 AM

Am running Logos 4 on my (2 yr old?) 13" aluminum body MacBook with no problems now that the software is up to 4.0b.  I wouldn't want to lug around something larger or heavier - and am compensating for the screen size with the use of floating panels/reading panels, etc.   

I am happy with the combination of the software and hardware.

  Model Name:    MacBook
  Model Identifier:    MacBook5,1
  Processor Name:    Intel Core 2 Duo
  Processor Speed:    2 GHz
  Number Of Processors:    1
  Total Number Of Cores:    2
  L2 Cache:    3 MB
  Memory:    4 GB
  Bus Speed:    1.07 GHz

Posts 34
Drew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 2 2010 12:07 PM

thanks, well let me ask then: Macbook Pro 13 or Macbook air?

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 2 2010 1:21 PM

Andrew DiNardo:
Thus I was looking at the high end macbook pro 15 inch.  It has higher end graphics card with 512 dedicated memory), faster hard drive, and faster cpu.   However it is more expensive ($2000) has shorter battery life, and is heavier!!!!!.

I have a 15" MBP, and I can't imagine a smaller screen being useful for serious Bible study, but YMMV. Heavier? I am a senior citizen by several years, and a 15" has not brought me to my knees yet. Geeked

Posts 3
Keith D Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 2 2010 1:42 PM

I talked to a new air owner with the solid state drive and his testimony is it runs everything faster than his more powerful faster processor macbook pro 15 inch. 

Also, as the other comment says, 13 inch is pretty small for serious study, but since you are docking at work, that's not a problem.  Just use the 13 inch when on the road.

Posts 6
JMurf | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 3 2010 5:34 AM

Personally I have a 13" 2.4 GHZ MBP 4GB Ram & a 7200 RPM HD. 

I absolutely love my setup. I don't find it too small for serious study and I never use an external monitor (sometimes I use my ipad as a 2nd monitor) 

You might want to wait a couple months though. I assume Apple is going to update the MBP line early next year and I would also assume that the updates are going to be pretty huge. (my guess would be SSD...which would make the MBP epic!)

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 3 2010 6:34 AM

JMurf:
I assume Apple is going to update the MBP line early next year

Early next year? After the Christmas gift season?

Posts 844
Dewayne Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 3 2010 8:59 AM

JMurf:
Personally I have a 13" 2.4 GHZ MBP 4GB Ram & a 7200 RPM HD. 

I have the same MBP, with the exception of 8 gigs of ram that should be showing up via Fed Ex literally any moment now. My previous MBP was a 17 Hires. I sold it when some money didn't show up I was expecting about 6 months ago. There is a HUGE difference in the way you will organize the desktop when using the smaller screen. Probably just two side by side windows and an info window placed somewhere on the side or bottom. A larger high-res screen would be probably four windows in the center with a tool windows on each side. But it is still worth it when considering portability and cost. But I think you still have to at least consider the fact that the larger MBPs use newer i5 processors and dedicated memory. But that comes with a cost.

I have recently added a book stand, BT keyboard and BT trackpad, as well as a 23" Samsung HD monitor. My wife bought me an iPad that I carry for work now, as opposed to the MBP. So my MBP now serves primarily as a desktop computer. With the iPad, I log into the MBP with logmein ignition and run Logos Mac directly. It works great, especially while sitting in bed. But it even works in low color mode when on the road or in church. I do use the iPad extensively at work as well, carrying job drawings, accessing my work machine remotely, making notes and drawings in the field, etc... So I am not advocating my complete setup, as I have many more demands that just Logos for my machine.

As far as speed? Logos is really not that bad. I do expect it to get better as time goes forward. Lately it has felt like they got it out the door and now there is no rush. I don't think that is really the case though. I think in reality it is just that they lost some interns and we have holidays in the mix and current projects take more time to complete.

Bottom line... A lower end MBP should be more than sufficient for your studies.

“... every day in which I do not penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the firm ground of the Word of God.”

Posts 844
Dewayne Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 4 2010 7:34 PM

Update:

I decided to sell the MBP 13" and get the 15" today. I was still within my 45 days on the monitor and accessories and decided to go for it. The memory still didn't show up, but can go in the 15" when it gets here. I keep a second hard drive always mirrored as a backup. When I got home with the 15", I updated the back up drive and plugged it into the new 15". This basically made the drive and OS identical in both the 13" and 15" MBPs. Here are the results of comparison between the two. Keep in mind that both are 4GB ram, 500GB 7200RPM drive, 2.4 Core 2 in the 13" and 2.4 i5 in the 15". I started Logos on the 13" first, and then started it on the 15". The first thing I noticed was the 58MB update. I thought, this will make a good comparison scenario. The 15" quickly caught up with the 13" that was started first and passed to complete first. I noticed that it downloaded much more quickly. I don't know if there is any reason for the i5 to download quicker, but that was the experience. I restarted both Logos at the same time to compare indexing and merging. The 13" took 20 minutes, but the 15" only took 16 minutes. I then did a fully opened Passage Guide on each machine. The 13" took 1:29 and the 15" took 1:07. I can tell that the 15" is snappier that the 13". The i5 seems to really help. I only decided to go to the 15" for the extra screen space, but the speed is nice too.

“... every day in which I do not penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the firm ground of the Word of God.”

Posts 38
Scott Stackelhouse | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 12:33 PM

Jack Caviness:

JMurf:
I assume Apple is going to update the MBP line early next year

Early next year? After the Christmas gift season?

rumor mill has it pegged for an update in april

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 11:59 PM

Andrew DiNardo:
Any thoughts, thanks

For Logos 4 Mac, do suggest using Activity Monitor to watch memory usage - lots of Page Outs is good reason for memory upgrade (or reduce number of open programs).

If going to use computer(s) in two places (e.g. work and home), have couple option(s):

1) Use one laptop in both places - daily exercise transporting - backpack with wheels could be useful (weight not make much difference).  If using an external monitor in both places, nice to have couple monitor adapters and power supplies.

2) Use different computers in both places - optionally transport files via USB thumb drive.

Observation: can buy two Mac Mini's or one Mac Book Pro (Mac Mini has NVidia GeForce 320M graphics - need keyboard, monitor, and mouse).

For desktop use, the 27" iMac offers significantly more screen to open Logos Resources.

Looking at Apple refurbished MacBook Pro's, found couple possibilities with NVidia GeForce GT 330M graphics:

15" ($ 1,529) => http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC371LL/A

17" ($ 2,079) => http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC665LL/A (anti-glare screen, glossy is $ 40 more)

Andrew DiNardo:

Would the 13 inch macbook with the different graphics card (NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory vs. GeForce 330m 512MB of GDDR3 memory on 2.66GHz configuration)

With same graphics card, dedicated graphics memory usually performs noticeably better than shared memory.

Looking at http://www.notebookcheck.net/Comparison-of-Laptop-Graphics-Cards.130.0.html found:

NVidia GeForce GT 330M is in Class 2: Midrange => http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-330M.22437.0.html

NVidia GeForce 320M is in Class 3: Low-Midrange => http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-320M.28701.0.html (article includes some Mac benchmarks that show 320M noticeably faster than previous generation)

Noted both articles include WIndows 7 graphics experience indexes - anticipate relative comparison in Windows virtual machines (or Boot Camp).

Andrew DiNardo:
13 inch has 5400rpm hard drive vs 7000 rpm harddrive.

Hard drives can be upgraded.  Noticed Newegg.com has 640 GB 7,200 RPM drive for $ 80.98 (including shipping).

Also saw 1 TB 5,400 RPM drive for $ 99.99 (slower & store more stuff) and 450 GB 10,000 RPM drive for $ 267.27 (faster)

By the way, a Buyer's Guide show last refresh date for Mac models => http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

Keep Smiling Smile

 

Posts 29
Orville J Erickson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 5:40 PM

I have the 13" late 2010 MBP with the nVidia 320M graphics, etc.  I have no problems running Logos, Word, PowerPoint, iTunes and Firefox with about 6 tabs open.  I have not felt that Logos was particularly slow on Mac.  It is somewhat slower than my Windows 7 desktop but I think that is to be expected.  It is pretty typical for Apple to refresh notebook lines mid year (April or June).

I would have to agree with some other folks here though, that the 13" screen does cramp your layouts a bit.  But my main desktop uses 3 monitors so I feel that way on any laptop :)  I think if money was not the main consideration and this is to be your primary Bible research computer, having the extra screen real estate a 15" would provide probably would be very nice!

Blessings,

Orville

 

Posts 5
Simon Quantrill | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 12:22 PM

I used to have the 13inch mbp and this worked fine the screen is rather small but workable, I gave it to the wife as her laptop broke down. My work kindly got me a mbp 15inch and to be honest running logos I dont se any differnce between them. Expect the screen of course. The 13inch is much lighter to move around with and you dint need as much desk space !!

Posts 14
Michael Dixon | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 11 2010 10:23 AM

Drew,

Hi. With the 999.00 13" macbook you only get 2gb of ram. I am on a mac with 2gb right now. I can tell you i am having to work around it, and it is a pain. Right now I have safari, logos, word and outlook open and i only have 40mb of ram left. If you get this, kick the extra 100 for the 4gb of ram. At that point you are at 1100, which is about what the 13" macbook pro would cost you.

The 13 is tiny for the workflow of Logos, at least for me. I use screens extensively, but it doesn't really help with logos. I have an external monitor, I don't know if i could work without it. 

The video card isn't really important for what you listed - research, logos, writing. Many newer apps make use of the faster ram on the vid card, in my line of work it makes a big diff. If you think you are going to be doing anything else in the future such as photos,  graphics or vid, or gaming through bootcamp, it might pay to plan ahead. It also matters if you are going to try and hook up an external monitor  - something to think about if you get the 13 and then want to push a larger monitor. You might want to research the res that those video cards can push fluidly.

The 15 pro is a great machine in any config, the i5 or i7. But you are going to pay at least 600 more for it. But it is an investment - as technology grows, that will become a normal, somewhat decent machine whereas the macbook regular will be an outdated one. I always purchase my machines near the top of the line so that they will be relevant for longer periods. In the end, this saves me money - something to think about anyways. Good luck.

Posts 10
Frank Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 11 2010 9:29 PM

My wife got a 13 inch Macbook Air. She loves it. I am considering selling my 15inch MBP or putting a SSD in it. The MBA can handle logos as the SSD makes the machine fly. With you just doing logos, mail, etc. I don't think you will regret it.

Posts 190
EmileB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 8:35 PM

I have appreciated this thread as I am in similar circumstances, and I've found it quite helpful. I need to study it a bit more. I am in a bit of a quandry as to how to proceed. Here's my situation.

I have had Logos for a long time, but confess that to this time, I'm a minimal user of what is a very advanced program. I WANT to really learn how to use this... just need to take the time to do it. For the most part to this point, I primarily use "My Library" like I would have used my hard copy library... I pull a book off the shelf and read it. I do some simple searches from time to time. But as I have about 2,000 resources in Logos, I haven't figured out how to search effectively and receive pertinent information without being swamped with returns... most of which are meaningless. But that will change as I learn the software. But I really need Logos as I can't cart my physical library around the world anymore.

But now to the dilemma. I will be returning to the field in the Spring. I am a PC user (Dell XPS). This is problematic, because I have had to replace the motherboard on my laptop on an annual basis for the past 4 years; my wife has also had trouble with her Dell system after only a year. Service where I'm going does not exist, so it would be very expensive and time consuming to fix any problems... even if I could be sure of receiving it back. I need something I KNOW will be reliable. Second, I am going back to a place where Internet viruses are INCREDIBLY common and crippling. I need a machine that will be safe and secure, and not prone to virus attack and their associated crashes. Thirdly, I have wrestled with Microsoft products continuously, trying to make what should be fairly simple tasks work smoothly and integrate well with one another. I am not a novice PC user. But frankly, I'm just tired of the wrestling. I just want everything to work. I've seen how easy it is to get things done on a Mac on my friends' Mac computers... things that took forever on mine, along with a huge learning curve and lots of tweaking. So Mac seems like the way to go. I was very happy to see L4 for Mac come out, as that was one of the biggest reasons I have held off from making the switch.

Now, my Dell is beginning to do its annual crash, and I am now out of my extended warranty. I need to make the jump. But what machine should I get? Each has advantages/disadvantages as I see it for my situation.

I anticipate using my Mac for Word, Logos, Dragon Speaking Naturally, downloading podcast sermons from iTunes, running a translation program (need to find a good one for Mac like Lingvo was for PC), Skype, putting together simple presentations for supporters back home (photos, maybe a short 5 minute video, voice over... nothing fancy), and very light photo editing... red eye, cropping, etc). That's about it. I need to transport the machine to where I am going (a slight concern), but once there, I think it will probably be staying on my desk. Although I'm not a "power user" (no games, heavy video, etc), I have always tended to invest in the higher end of computers, as I will be away for a long time, and I don't want to be hampered by a machine that is soon obsolete (that happened to me a couple of times early on in my computing experience), and I also want to be able to have a machine that I can grow into and not become frustrated with as I learn to do more things.

Btw... I really like the iPad (also on my purchase list prior to departure) as it seems ideal for the kinds of things I do (like reading books), so I think alot of my Logos work would be through that... unless I end up finally learning how to take full advantage of the program.

But now I'm reading in other threads that (horrors!) L4 for Mac is disastrously slow and problem ridden, causing crashes, freeze ups, or needing lots and lots of tweaking/adjustments that I don't have a clue how to do, nor the time to learn. I just don't know what to make of all of this... The last thing I want is to spend the big bucks to transfer to a Mac system and find I've actually not improved my problems from Dell/Windows, or even, God forbid, made things worse. I wish I knew the percentage of those who have been happy/frustrated with L4 for Mac...

So... questions.... Is L4 for Mac really that bad, or are the problems isolated cases? Are they in actuality only picky problems with speed, or the result of too high expectations? Or am I really in for problems? How difficult is it going to be for me to get this thing up and working well (the one thread leaves one with the impression that L4 for Mac is practically unusable)? And what machine will run this program the best (including the other things I've indicated that I do?).

Any perspectives would be much appreciated!

Emile

Posts 190
EmileB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 8:44 PM

I like the idea of a SSD, but I have a friend who works on developing hard drive chips. Naturally, he may be biased, but he usually tends to be fair in his assessment of things. He tells me that SSD isn't the way to go, as they can only record so many times, and then they begin losing efficiency, eventually becoming slower than hard drives, and lose the capacity to save. He acknowledges the day will come when this will change, and then people should move to SSD. However, I'm not finding that kind of assessment on the Internet in general (that SSDs are a problem, at least in this kind of context). I've read that the issue is a writing issue, rather than a read issue, and for this context, it wouldn't pose a problem for a very, very long time, as you'd have to complete overwrite the drive many, many , many times... like daily for ten years). Obviously, price is a factor. I've thought about SSD for initial program set up, and then an external TB drive for daily writing, keeping files, etc... Does anyone else have concerns or info on SSD performance over time?

Emile

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 18 2010 11:30 PM

EmileB:
So... questions.... Is L4 for Mac really that bad, or are the problems isolated cases? Are they in actuality only picky problems with speed, or the result of too high expectations?

There are some who have problems with L4 Mac. The developers are really good at trying to sort them out. There are many of us who have very little problem with L4 Mac including myself. I run what must be the worst configuration - 13in Mac Book 2Gb ram and standard hard drive. I am a slightly harder user than you describe yourself (I do passage guides) and L4 works well and and fast enough for me.

If you are travelling with a laptop the additional battery life you get with a mac would swing it for me.

ilife should allow you to do much of your other stuff.

Don't write of iwork for your Word Processing and Presentations - Pages and Keynote and Numbers are really good.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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