Most used Bible version

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Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 6:11 PM

Joshua Garcia:

Shawn Drewett:

What's amazing to me is that so few posts on this thread mention the KJV. I didn't realize that it had faded into the background so much. I like the Lexham BIble a lot but wish it were in the Old Testament as well.

I have never been a fan of the KJV. It uses a majority text and is written in old English. Granted the language as been somewhat updated, it still is very archaic. This makes it less desirable for practical bible study. Since we are talking about a bible study program, I find it reasonable to see the KJV lacking in the polls.

I am not a fan either, however I am not going to talk bad about a translation that has been the standard for well over 400 years. You said it nicely when you said, "... we are talking about a bible study program" and there are better translations for personal Bible study. There are better resources in our software package to study with. The KJV is still the standard for many churches and is still a translation bringing people to God. It's not archaic, it is majestic. But I prefer a more updated version to study, preach, and teach with.

Posts 67
Richard Koons | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 7:23 PM

KJV For me with interlinear and greek and Hebrew and aramaic word aids along with Figures of speech idioms etc and all the tools of logos myself I do shy away from most modern version bibles but that is my preference ( I am hard headed and enjoy the mining of the word apart from what the new versions supply there are just to many different translationsn etc) I really am growing to love logos 4 which allows me to study in this manner as well as I am sure everyone here does

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 7:44 PM

David Royer:

I was shocked and not shocked about the KJV's not being hardly mentioned. Archaic language? I prefer to say our language has changed from that of 1611, but this language of seventeenth century England is simply beautiful.

While I did originally start off with a NIV, I quickly went to the KJV and have found it particularly easy to understand after a short time using it. Since then, I have never felt a need to study multiple translations. I would rather simply drill down to the original Greek and Hebrew if there are questions.

From other threads it seems that most that post here are converts to textual criticism.  [And my own collection on that subject is up to 12 volumes (need someone to start or point to a good thread on volumes to add to that set)]  [and way too many of the defenders of the KJV went off the deep end (IMHO - the result being that instead of supporting the KJV they drove people away)]  [I hope you know that the Greek under the NIV and the KJV differ 5% of the time.]  There have been attempts to update the language of the KJV but they always try to "improve" or "correct" instead of just updating the words (RV  ASV   NKJV   RSV etc)

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 8:39 PM

Jonathan Sine:

Ha! Jacob said basically the same thing and beat me to it. Yes

Ha!

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

Posts 15
David Royer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 5:23 AM

 

David Ames:
There have been attempts to update the language of the KJV but they always try to "improve" or "correct" instead of just updating the words (RV  ASV   NKJV   RSV etc)

Are there really any needs to update the language of the AV1611? While we have changed how the words have been used since then, with a short amount of time in the KJV one can learn these differences. I love the thou's, thee's, and ye's because they offer a degree of precision not offered by simply using the word you. One can never tell, except by context, if the you being used is 2nd person singular or plural. Using the thee's and thou's removes all doubt.

David Ames:
(IMHO - the result being that instead of supporting the KJV they drove people away)

As far as driving people away? I will answer with John 6:44. I am not trying to deflect what you are saying, but simply saying I love God's word and I will steer clear of any worldly conflict on this. Reducing this whole controversy to the thief on the cross, what did he know? While his witness was important, he didn't have time for study. Though we have time to study now, it is still God that saves, not if we read the KJV or not.The Lord deserves all the glory, not the individual and his choice on which modern book he would choose.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 5:56 AM

David Ames:
  There have been attempts to update the language of the KJV but they always try to "improve" or "correct" instead of just updating the words (RV  ASV   NKJV   RSV etc)

I was rather surprise to see that you included the NKJV in your list of attempting to "improve" or "correct" the KJV. What I have seen so far is that the NKJV attempts to update the language of the KJV. It seems you differ. Would you be kind a enough to point me to a source for your assertion? I may have missed something - when I did a text comparison (KJV & NKJV) in Logos I came to the conclusion that the NKJV was essentially the KJV but with updated language. That said I have not checked all the verses OT and NT so I may have concluded wrongly

Any book recommendation or internet site would be welcomed to check this out? One finds out something new every day.

Blessings

Ted

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Posts 550
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 6:04 AM

I have absolutely no authority on this forum, but it would grieve me if this thread led to a heated debate on the the relevancy/non-relevancy of the KJV today. I come from a people who are destroying themselves with this issue. 

Posts 15
David Royer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 6:27 AM

 

Shawn Drewett:

. I come from a people who are destroying themselves with this issue. 

Remember John 6:39. No matter what a person's point of view is on this admittedly hot topic, our Lord has made a promise that we can trust in. It simply just doesn't matter in a person's salvation on this topic. The Lord has made his promise concerning his elect, and it is the Lord who saves. I really don't think that we are going to thwart his promise based upon this decision.

 

Posts 550
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 6:30 AM

I'm a firm believer in the Eternal Security of the Believer. What I meant by "destroying" is their reputation among unbelievers because of constant bickering and contention on this subject and others.

Posts 15
David Royer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 6:41 AM

 

Shawn Drewett:

I'm a firm believer in the Eternal Security of the Believer. What I meant by "destroying" is their reputation among unbelievers because of constant bickering and contention on this subject and others.

Understood and agreed! The Lord has reminded me of 1 timothy 3:7 concerning this topic.

 

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 6:42 AM

Shawn Drewett:

I have absolutely no authority on this forum, but it would grieve me if this thread led to a heated debate on the the relevancy/non-relevancy of the KJV today. I come from a people who are destroying themselves with this issue. 

Shawn I fully agree. I wasn't asking to start off a debate. I was just curious about the assertion that the NKJV was attempting to "improve" or "correct" the KJV Instead of it being an update. I was under the Impression they were essentially the same bible. The preface of the NKJV seems to suggest this as well.Of course there are minor differences but essentially I thought the NKJV was just updating the language of the KJV. I may have been wrong in my conclusion, that was the reason I asked for more info.

I asked for information, a book or website that address this, not a debate. For what It is worth, I am not a KJV only guy but I do take your caution though that this could turn into a heated debate. I for one will not be engaging in such neither do I want others to engage in such debates. The forum rules do not allow this.

My intention is to get more info on the difference, If there is any on the KJV/NKJV.

Ted

Edit

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Posts 550
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 6:59 AM

Ted and David, you both have great spirits and I appreciate the comments. 

Ted, my favorite book on bible translations is "How to choose a bible version" by Robert L. Thomas. It is a Logos book and I have it in my library. Actually several years ago I bought it as a paperback before it became a Logos book. I loved it. Let me recommend bible-researcher.com. A great site for learning.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 7:05 AM

Shawn Drewett:
Ted, my favorite book on bible translations is "How to choose a bible version" by Robert L. Thomas. It is a Logos book and I have it in my library. Actually several years ago I bought it as a paperback before it became a Logos book. I loved it. Let me recommend bible-researcher.com. A great site for learning.

Thanks for the info. Many blessings.

Ted

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Posts 453
Mike S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 8:11 AM

1. HCSB 

2. NET (also my printed bible for reading and studying sans computer)

3. ESV (when I need the RI and it's my local church's teaching text now)

Given how often HCSB and NET have come up... I would sure like to see Logos provide Reverse Interlinears for these clearly popular translations! 

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 8:41 AM

As a Swede I'm kind of fascinated with this constant arguing over the KJV. I can't imagine there is anyone in Sweden using 'our KJV' as their main Bible. To the best of my knowledge, it must have been out of print for hundreds of years. I'm not even sure if I've ever seen a copy. Back then, of course, only churches, universities and the very rich could afford such a thing as a Bible, so there can't be very many copies left around.

I'd never seen an electronic version either until just now, when I looked around and found the photographed pages of Matthew, so it seems someone is working on it. Very slow reading, though. 

There are a couple of free 18th and 19th century versions in Accordance and MacSword (being on Mac, I haven't checked the Windows programs), but not yet in Logos that I know of. I imagine they will turn up once the PBBs are back (or maybe they're already there, only I don't know where to look for them). And it's not very hard to find 19th century family Bibles. But no one that I've ever heard of uses these Bibles for actual reading. I believe they're mainly used by linguists to study the development of the Swedish language, and such things. 

The oldest translation still in everyday use would probably be the 1917, and those people are dying out fast. Except for the Orthodox and the Jews, who seem to favour it. Mostly, I believe, because they're both immigrant groups with a different relationship to the Swedish language. And in the latter case also because they're too few to easily afford to make a new edition of the Hebrew-Swedish Siddur.

Actually, I am personally sticking to the 1982 Bible and refusing to move on to either the 1998 or the 2000 one. In Sweden that makes me very odd and old-fashioned. So you can see why the idea of using something like the KJV is kind of unimaginable...

Of course, it also kind of fascinates me when the very same people, on the one hand pretty much claim that the KJV translation itself was inspired, and that it, and only it, is the authentic Word of God, and yet, on the other hand, refuse to use the original KJV (since it includes the Deuterocanonicals (and even some Apocrypha, I believe))...

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Posts 103
Mark O'Hearn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 8:54 AM

Ted I believe your general observation about the NKJV being an updated version of the KJV to be correct.  There are others in the world who would completely disagree.  When you carefully read the preface, which we should always do for any translation, other text families were consulted and more important differences are cited in the footnotes.

As for all the unchristian arguments over the KJV, one has to ponder if individuals are not acting in a Christ like manner maybe they are none of His.  However, that is not for me to determine.  I simply leave such persons alone, as any meaningful discussion is usually impossible.  To some this is just another avenue of argument, and certain folks will argue over religion in much the same manner as other things in life.  

How much of the Word are we reading?  And more searching, how much of it are we emulating? 

The only thing I would say is that in defending newer translations some folks have, I believe, unintentionally maligned the KJV.  There is absolutely no need to malign any faithful translation of God's Word, especially a translation that I believe will never be eclipsed in terms of its contribution to the body of Christ.

I trust that Logos users are sincerely interested in original languages, and realize that any translation is just that, a translation of the Word.  While I do not believe all have the same value, I do believe all can have a benefit to the reader.

Hopefully we can continue with this enjoyable discussion about our favourite translation(s), which understandably mean so much to us.

Regards

Posts 298
Kaye Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 10:31 AM

Very well said, Mark.

Peace,

K

"But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."  2 Timothy 4:5 (NASB)

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 12:24 PM

fgh:
So you can see why the idea of using something like the KJV is kind of unimaginable..

I share your bemusement re: the books included and was surprised / pleased with my new resource The First Bible of the Church: A Plea for the Septuagint by Müller, Mogens

However, I think part of the appeal of the KJV is that the "poetic ideal" of English as implicitly taught in our schools is:

  • William Shakespeare's play
  • Tate and Brady psalter
  • King James Bible

For the KJV proponents, note I said "part of the appeal" - I recognize that there are other factors.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 12:38 PM

MJ. Smith:
I share your bemusement re: the books included and was surprised / pleased with my new resource The First Bible of the Church: A Plea for the Septuagint by Müller, Mogens

Thanks M.J for mentioning The First Bible of the Church, I have It in my Logos library. It looks very good and I shall be reading It with much Interest.

Kind Regards

Ted

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 1:18 PM

MJ. Smith:

I bought that one as well. Now I just have to find the time to read it... 

MJ. Smith:

I think part of the appeal of the KJV is that the "poetic ideal" of English as implicitly taught in our schools is:

  • William Shakespeare's play
  • Tate and Brady psalter
  • King James Bible

Somehow, I suspect Jesus spoke in prose... Stick out tongue

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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