Studying the Text of a Hymn for Christmas

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Posts 49
Jim Oesterwind | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Dec 5 2010 1:48 PM

What would be the best way to search my library for information related to hymn texts?  For example, if I were to use Joy to the World as a basis for a Christmas sermon, how would I narrow my search?

Thank you.

Jim Oesterwind

Heritage Baptist Church

Antioch, CA

www.heritageantioch.com

Posts 35581
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 2:50 PM

Jim Oesterwind:
how would I narrow my search?

The only way I have found is to create a collection of my hymn text resources and search it - but even so the tagging for hymns is minimal.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 3:44 PM

Jim Oesterwind:

What would be the best way to search my library for information related to hymn texts?  For example, if I were to use Joy to the World as a basis for a Christmas sermon, how would I narrow my search?

Thank you.

I've found that the hymn stories resources give some stuff that could qualify as sermon starter material, and often connect them with a Scripture (from which I could base a sermon).

 

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 77
K.J. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 3:50 PM

Forgive me for being so blunt,    But it seems to me that if you base your sermon on elevator music,   You will end up with an elevator sermon.

Posts 2961
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 3:53 PM

Just as long as the elevator is going up.  And we need a light sermon once in a while. 

Posts 49
Jim Oesterwind | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 4:00 PM

Hi, Richard.  Yes, I've done this.  For example, Joy to the World finds it basis in Psalm 98.  One year I studied that passage and related it to they hymn.  I guess I was thinking of finding places where authors of resources mention the hymn.  Thanks for the help - perhaps I need a collection of hymn story books.

Jim

Jim Oesterwind

Heritage Baptist Church

Antioch, CA

www.heritageantioch.com

Posts 3883
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 4:01 PM

I have done sermon series on "Favorite Hymns" and on "Stained Glass Windows".  The sermon starter says nothing about where it ends up.  I am considering redoing the "Favorite Hymns" series (with different hymns) this spring.  I like the idea of using Christmas Carols - maybe next year.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 49
Jim Oesterwind | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 4:03 PM

You're forgiven, K.J.  Thanks for the intent of your rebuke.  I think you may have misunderstood my intentions.

Jim

Jim Oesterwind

Heritage Baptist Church

Antioch, CA

www.heritageantioch.com

Posts 49
Jim Oesterwind | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 4:07 PM

Hi, Floyd.  Yes, there's a lot of depth in the hymns we sing.  It's nice to reinforce the meaning of a Scripturally-based hymn.

Jim

Jim Oesterwind

Heritage Baptist Church

Antioch, CA

www.heritageantioch.com

Posts 3883
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 4:11 PM

 

You might want to look at this book available free for the Amazon Kindle:

     http://amzn.to/Christmas_Songs

If you don't have a Kindle, you can get the free Kindle App for the PC (or other platforms).  I would like to see this series in LOGOS at some point.

 

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 35581
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 4:25 PM

Jim Oesterwind:
I was thinking of finding places where authors of resources mention the hymn.

I have made the suggestion that hymn titles should be a data-type specifically for this purpose. If Logos ever moves into the worship software arena, I'd expect them to do something of this sort.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 49
Jim Oesterwind | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 4:25 PM

Thanks, Floyd.  I didn't know I could download Kindle Books without a Kindle.  That's great! 

Jim

Jim Oesterwind

Heritage Baptist Church

Antioch, CA

www.heritageantioch.com

Posts 35581
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 4:42 PM

K.J.:
if you base your sermon on elevator music,

I know that it wasn't your intent - but Christmas elevator music immediately brought to mind "Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer" ... and considering my grandma's Dad started for America behind reindeer and sledge  and her husband was a Church of Christ preacher, you can see how you accidentally hit my funny bone.Big Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 77
K.J. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 5 2010 5:55 PM

I am just thankful that you were able to dispel the dastardly rumor that your funny bone fell off 50 years ago. Stick out tongue

Posts 286
Dr. Charles A. Wootten | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 4:51 AM

Jim Oesterwind:

Yes, there's a lot of depth in the hymns we sing.  It's nice to reinforce the meaning of a Scripturally-based hymn.

Wow.... I am in "envy" mode!

Many churches are currently stuck on heretical oddities such as "I shall have -------what I decree. Yes, I believe it belongs to me. (twice) So, I'm going to speak into the atmosphere. Speak into the atmosphere"; or stuff that's not even related to worship such as "Ι wanna clap a little louder than before I wanna sing a little louder than before (oh oh oh oh!) I wanna jump higher than before I wanna sing a little louder than before. (oh oh oh oh!)" followed by the word "freedom" sung so many times that one simply falls over from sheer exhaustion. ("wanna"?!?!?!?!?!) And don't get me started on Israel Houghton and Jonathan Stockstill...There's another song by some guy (Tomlin?) that mentions the nations currently bowing to God (wrongly based, I assume, on Ge. 27:29 and Ps. 98) and an earlier song on the same topic either not realizing that this event is future.

So, if you want to preach why we worship using a hymn as an example, I'll listen! But, if the whole sermon is the hymn, let's pray..... Stick out tongue

God bless

{charley}

 

 

running Logos Bible Software 6.0a: Collector's Edition on HP e9220y (AMD Phenom II X4 2.60GHz 8.00GB 64-bit Win 7 Pro SP1) & iPad (mini) apps.

Posts 77
K.J. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 5:13 AM

Dr. Charles A. Wootten:
So, if you want to preach why we worship using a hymn as an example, I'll listen! But, if the whole sermon is the hymn, let's pray....

             I just made a brief allusion to elevator music and barely escaped the tar and feathers. After your rant, You may not fare so well.  Surprise

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 5:44 AM

I see a major issue with humanity and the elevator image.  My problem is that we do not go up, but it is God who comes down to us.  It is God who is the active agent, and humanity role is strictly passive.

Posts 2961
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 7:51 AM

tom collinge:

I see a major issue with humanity and the elevator image.  My problem is that we do not go up, but it is God who comes down to us.  It is God who is the active agent, and humanity role is strictly passive.

Yes, as in John 21: where the first two times Jesus says lovest agapaō and the third time lovest phileō - He comes to our level to take us to his.

 One item that I have “”taught”” is that when you are in tune with the spirit go and buy a hymn book.  Then when you are out of tune with the spirit and see the Bible as too holy for such a sinner as yourself to open open the hymn book – the ‘sermons’ that are found there just might bring you back to the Bible.  [[yourself includes me]]

 

I am a song leader in my church and when I cannot get anyone to give a testimony between hymns I have been known to expound on the hymn we just sang.  [I have no clue what I would do if I had to speak for 20 minutes on that hymn – but a minute or two - I can do.] Not all but many of our hymns have the power of the spirit in them.

 

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 9:02 AM

Jim Oesterwind:

Hi, Richard.  Yes, I've done this.  For example, Joy to the World finds it basis in Psalm 98.  One year I studied that passage and related it to they hymn.  I guess I was thinking of finding places where authors of resources mention the hymn.  Thanks for the help - perhaps I need a collection of hymn story books.

Jim

Okay, now I see what you are trying to accomplish: find where authors reference a hymn in the body of their work. MJ is right that this would be possible, if Logos tagged hymns as a data type. That would be helpful to me as well.

You could do phrase searching, but it wouldn't be simple and would likely take a long time. But you could limit those searches to resources that are more likely to contain such references. I created a collection called "Sermons" that include Spurgeon, Piper, and a few other books that are based on sermons (much of the Tozer collection, e.g.). You could do the same for other authors, or resource types, etc. Consider searching for "Joy to the world, the Lord is come" as a phrase (quotes included), or you could stack two or more phrases, separate them with OR or AND to find references to other parts of a hymn that may be quoted. Of course these miss paraphrases, or alternate texts (some hymns are notoriously inconsistent between hymn books).

If you have one of the base packages, then you have Amazing Grace--366 Inspiring Hymn Stories a devotional work. It's quite good, if not a bit terse, and more reliable than searching for hymn stories on the internet (where you never know what you're gonna get).

Other resources I have in Logos are 101 Hymn Stories and 101 More Hymn Stories by Kenneth Osbeck, and the Hymns and Scripture Selection Guide by Donald Spencer. These each have their limitations and uses. (I have also used the Steve Green's Midi Hymnal on many occasions, though it doesn't do most of what you're wanting here.)

(BTW, I didn't believe that you would use a hymn in place of Scripture, but as a device to either guide the structure, to recapitulate Biblical truth you're teaching, or provide a simple jumping off point of a Message based primarily on the Bible.)

 

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 49
Jim Oesterwind | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 6 2010 9:20 AM

Thanks, Richard.  I appreciate the help.  Thanks for the affirmation at the end of your post as well.  I certainly want to be faithful to the Word of God.

Jim

Jim Oesterwind

Heritage Baptist Church

Antioch, CA

www.heritageantioch.com

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