Logos, Please do Something

Page 3 of 6 (101 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last »
This post has 100 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 550
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 7:30 PM

This issue is DEFINITELY split on the forums. In other words there are valid and emotional arguments on both sides. It is not an issue that will simply go away. In my case, it took me quite a while to regret investing so much money in Logos. In other words, I can't get my money back. I'm in a place where I have no choice but to learn to live with the countless bugs and slowness of the program. There is no other alternative, unless I want to lose most of what I've invested.............which is a lot of money.

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 7:32 PM

Peace, Shawn!  *smile*

You DO have Logos 3.0g!          A very remarkable Bible Software indeed!  You do not have to get "emotional" about Logos 4.

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 550
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 7:34 PM

I appreciate your kindness Milford.

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 7:35 PM

Shawn Drewett:

I appreciate your kindness Milford.

Thanks, Shawn.  I think I may appreciate the pain you are feeling also!                       Blessings!  In every area!  *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 33234
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 10:04 PM

Shawn Drewett:
This issue is DEFINITELY split on the forums.

Part of the reason it splits the forum, is the relative lack of content - beginning with the title "Logos, Please do Something" ... well they are doing something just not the something wanted by the person writing the title. If Logos staff took a day off for twiddling thumbs they would meet the request of the title.

The slowness of the program is also too vague to be corrected. Where one experiences the slowness and on what platform are minimum requirements for Logos to correct the slowness ... we know from the forums that some people still have unacceptable performance levels - most do not. Logos cannot text every possible combination of hardware, operating system, concurrent processes, etc. They are dependent upon us to say that note files of such and such a size or multiple linked sets of ... cause performance problems. Can you speed this or that up? Or when we can't determine why we experience slowness, call Customer service and let them see what you are seeing.

Countless bugs? I really doubt this is other than hyperbole. Yes, there are more bugs than I would like - then I do have a perfectionist side to me. But the repair of the bugs have to be prioritized by their effect on the user. We are the only ones who can tell Logos which ones they need to get on - pronto. From the bug repair lists in the last few releases we can see that Logos is making significant progress on the errors that most effect users.

Make a list of your top ten irritants / bugs/ performance issues / missing features and post it or email Logos. There is significant evidence that if we hold up our side or the correction / enhancement project, they will too.

Lest you think that I'm a starry-eyed Logos fan, remember I am one who needs a better implementation of lectionaries, prayer lists and notes before I can really use Logos for my primary purposes; I also have a strong need to be able to build (and share) user content - parallels, lectionaries, timelines, PBB's just to get back the functions I did on Logos 3.

 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19270
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 7 2010 10:16 PM

Shawn Drewett:
This issue is DEFINITELY split on the forums.

I think another reason for this is, to paraphrase the nursery rhyme, that when Logos is good, it is very very good, but when it's bad it is horrid. In other words, some people seem to sail through with very few if any problems, and others (in the vast minority, thankfully) have really horrible problems getting Logos to even install let alone index and run. The reasons for their problems run the gamut from real bugs in Logos that only show up under certain configurations (which explains why most users don't run into them), to hardware failures on the user's machine which they blame on Logos. Those sorts of problems are becoming rarer and rarer since L4 shipped as Logos nails down and fixes more obscure bugs in each release. They have told us that the complaints we hear on the forum are indeed not the norm, that the overwhelming positive feedback they get, and the number of customers who are using it happily without ever contacting customer service support the notion that L4 is very very solid indeed.

The horrid experiences should of course never happen, and they get lots of volume on the forums and taint people's views of the software and the company. Logos does usually go out of its way to help users who have particularly strange configuration specific problems, even if the fault ends up not being Logos's. Those users usually go away very satisfied in the end, but their initial loud complaints live on in the forums forever and spark other complaints.

So, I'm not denying that problems do occur and that they shouldn't. There are still issues that I've been complaining about for months which haven't been addressed yet and I am irritated by the low priority Logos has placed on my particular issues. But I know that they factor in a lot of other things that I'm not aware of, including, but not limited to, how many other users have complained about this issue (if I'm the only one, and there's something else that more people have been reporting as a problem, then they might make me wait, and that's only fair).

Posts 75
John Sheeley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 3:35 AM

Excellent Matthew C Jones!

Posts 75
John Sheeley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 3:39 AM

Thank you Mr Murray, and Peace to you! 

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 5:37 AM

Matthew C Jones:

Michael Huffman:
As I said, By God's grace, I have not experienced the problems of others, but I am afraid that there is so much negative in the forums.
Michael Huffman:
Well, it performs very, very well on my laptop.


Let me see if I get this right:

   1. You just said you personally have not experienced problems.
   2. You say the forums are full of negative reports
   3. You say Logos performs well on your laptop.

I've been taught this is called "taking up offenses."   So why be a standard bearer for unhappy users? You are leading them to a dry well. 

Michael Huffman:
Nothing gets fixed if people get on the defense when something is mentioned is wrong.

If you had hurtful but true information about one of my daughters and chose to walk down the street door-to-door telling everyone that information to "help" my family; I would really question your (integrity/wisdom/motive/charity.)
Matthew 18:15 seems to be more "helpful" than soliciting gripes. Contacting Logos directly about issues you have is the best way to get resolution, if that is what you really want.

I must say with all due respect, "How ridiculous"! This is a forum where people not just voice praises but voice objections. And based on others posts, not just here, but in other threads as well, people have real issues. My only point was all the objections may hinder future users. Especially when you see the same problems with each update. I know a user, a user since the 1.6 days, that his software gets slower with each update. He has contacted CS, to no avail, so he depends on the forum. And as such, will post an ocassional objection. My suggesstion to you Matt, that if you cannot deal with the true objections that many others have voiced, then you not respond to them. Especially bringing into question a person's integrity/wisdom/motive/charity.  And you liken it to Matthew 18:15 and that ridiculous illustration that you gave. I would never participate in that illustration that you gave and I hardly seen them a the same.  We are talking about people's problems (though I dont personally have many of them, I sell Logos and my customers do, so I have to deal with them; so it is personal with me), in a place where objections are voiced; not someone going doot-to-door spreading rumor about members of your family. I am very disturbed that people cannot voice objections without this kind of reaction....this to will deter people from voicing on the forum.  

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 5:45 AM

George Somsel:

Michael Huffman:

It is ironic you mention that, I had a very good friend who use to work at Logos when the development for Logos 4 was going on; and what he told me was that Logos 4 was going to be designed to be very fast. Well, it performs very, very well on my laptop. Although, others have speed issues. It is not as fast at 3, but I realize that it is doing and can do a whole lot more.

 

Piggy-backing on your original post and replying as well to Shawn, who seems to think L4 is slower than L3, I don't have many of the problems which have been mentioned in the forum nor do I think L4 particularly slow.  The only thing I have problems with are the implementation of notes in L4.  Sometimes I add or edit a note only to spend time waiting for the "pizza" (Windows, not Logos) to quit spinning.  I attribute this to the fact that entries are constantly being saved as they are made.  L4 is still a work in progress, and, so long as Logos is listening and making adjustments, I am relatively satisfied.  I think a good part of the problem is that we are a bunch who like to pick things to death.  Logos gives a lot of performance and is known for listening to its customers which tends to promote such complaining.  So long as Logos doesn't become discouraged by the complaints I see no problem.  Now, I'm going to go make a complaint suggestion of my own.

I agree George. As I said, I too am pleased with the way Logos runs for me. But as a salesmen for Logos, I deal with customers who do have the problems. So the source of my frustrastiion. And I will admit, that sometimes it is a matter of training and sometimes it is not. I do love this software and would use or sell no other; it is just when you see the same problems with every release and you have customers who computers get slower with each update and CS wants to blame it on hardware, it gets old.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 6:01 AM

Mark Barnes:
don't know whether I'm one whom you have in mind here, but it is something I and some of the other MVPs have been accused of by others!! But who it's directed at isn't important and doesn't matter. There are some of us on this forum (and I'm one!) whose natural instinct when a problem is described is: "let's fix it!".

No, it was not you; but as you said, that does not matter. I too feel like: "lets fix it". that is why when I hear the same problems of performance issue and re-indexing taking 36 hours and the new updates to the Learn Greek and Hebrew DVD's having corrupted files, I get frustrated. Let's fix it!!! I agree.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 13419
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 6:10 AM

Michael Huffman:
Let's fix it!!! I agree.

Good Smile - but I would emphasis the 'us'. And in order that I and others can at least try and 'fix' your customers problems, we need to understand what specifically the problems are, and interact directly with the person experiencing the problem. Often posts can degenerate into a pantomime "Oh yes it does", "Oh no it doesn't", and threads describing unknown problems from unknown persons are most likely to degenerate in this way. If you're not already doing so, encourage your customers to post directly to this forum - and hopefully, together, we can 'fix' their problems (and if we can't, at least encourage Logos to do so).

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 6:18 AM

MJ. Smith:
If Logos staff took a day off for twiddling thumbs they would meet the request of the title.

No one accused Logos of "twiddling" their thumbs. But noone here can deny that there are continual repetitive problems that have not been fixed. I guess the main problem of people is the speed. Granted, it is faster than pulling the book off the shelf, yes, but when with every update the performace is more sluggish? There is a problem.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 6:21 AM

Mark Barnes:

Michael Huffman:
Let's fix it!!! I agree.

Good Smile - but I would emphasis the 'us'. And in order that I and others can at least try and 'fix' your customers problems, we need to understand what specifically the problems are, and interact directly with the person experiencing the problem. Often posts can degenerate into a pantomime "Oh yes it does", "Oh no it doesn't", and threads describing unknown problems from unknown persons are most likely to degenerate in this way. If you're not already doing so, encourage your customers to post directly to this forum - and hopefully, together, we can 'fix' their problems (and if we can't, at least encourage Logos to do so).

Thanks, Mark (your videos are awesome, by the way). I have encouraged them to do it. I also train Logos, but many of the problems are frustrations with speed, to which I do not know that any can fix in the forum. That is definitely at code issue. That is their fristration.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 6:36 AM

edited out because I should not have said it.

Michael Huffman:
I know a user, a user since the 1.6 days, that his software gets slower with each update. He has contacted CS, to no avail, so he depends on the forum. And as such, will post an ocassional objection.

I am not belittling anyone's difficulties running the software. But performance issues are almost exclusively an issue of hardware or configuration problems. (You can bring your computer to a screeching halt just by adding two virus apps.) Some people have woefully slow internet access or are trying to run Logos 4 on their Packard Bell. I still have my copy of Logos 1.6 and the box it came in. But the computer I ran it on is long gone.

Does your friend post complaints about problems he never personally has? If everybody started reporting each other's problems, it would appear the software would have many more flaws than are true.  Hmm, you might be on to something here, Matthew.

Michael Huffman:
And you liken it to Matthew 18:15

Many keep stating Logos should be a non-profit ministry yet they refuse to give Logos the courtesy of a private one-on-one per Matt 18:15 .

The only Biblical account I know of where someone intervenes between people with a problem and the person responsible to solve that problem was Absalom. 2 Samuel 15:2-6  

Michael Huffman:
My suggesstion to you Matt, that if you cannot deal with the true objections that many others have voiced, then you not respond to them.

I think I just did, "deal with it",  that is.

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 67
Richard Koons | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 6:52 AM

Yes I agree I purchase Logos 4 plat back last Jan dumped a lot of money into logos on a six month time frame. At first the software was unusable I do mean unusable which points to it not being ready for prime-time today I enjoy the software and it has become my main program for bible study. I know the thought it isn't a buggy as other software (but in fact in many ways it was worse) you couldn't use it out of the box the application hung took too long to toggle through the bible etc. Of course now it is fine and meets my expectation but the first couple of months were hell to say the least. It is ok to have bugs we expect this but in a truth at first Logos 4 was little better than a beta. For the future I think it would be a wise decision not to launch a future application so fast or at the least wait until the core functionality is working without flaws tha being said I am writing mainly from a quality control opinion Logos 4 is worth the money and an essentail tool I feel for bible study as well as a study into the ancient world in general.

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 6:52 AM

Matthew C Jones:

I always wondered why the adjective "good-will" was ever needed in conjunction with the title "Ambassador."   Now I know.

Michael Huffman:
I know a user, a user since the 1.6 days, that his software gets slower with each update. He has contacted CS, to no avail, so he depends on the forum. And as such, will post an ocassional objection.

I am not belittling anyone's difficulties running the software. But performance issues are almost exclusively an issue of hardware or configuration problems. (You can bring your computer to a screeching halt just by adding two virus apps.) Some people have woefully slow internet access or are trying to run Logos 4 on their Packard Bell. I still have my copy of Logos 1.6 and the box it came in. But the computer I ran it on is long gone.

Does your friend post complaints about problems he never personally has? If everybody started reporting each other's problems, it would apear the software would have many more flaws than are true.  Hmm, you might be on to something here, Matthew.

Michael Huffman:
And you liken it to Matthew 18:15

Many keep stating Logos should be a non-profit ministry yet they refuse to give Logos the courtesy of a private one-on-one per Matt 18:15 .

The only Biblical account I know of where someone intervenes between people with a problem and the person responsible to solve that problem was Absalom. 2 Samuel 15:2-6  

Michael Huffman:
My suggesstion to you Matt, that if you cannot deal with the true objections that many others have voiced, then you not respond to them.

I think I just did, "deal with it",  that is.

 

He has posted, but many people do not post for fear of receiving reactions like I receive from you! Furthermore, Matthew 18 is in the context of the Church not in business of people having legitimate problems.  What I meant by "not being able to deal with" is that this forum needs to be a place where people can voice problems and your comments from the start were sarcastic and uncharitable and completely unnecessary. So what I was saying is that if you cannot be kind and gracious in your responses, then dont respond.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 10831
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 7:03 AM

Michael Huffman:
I know a user, a user since the 1.6 days, that his software gets slower with each update. He has contacted CS, to no avail, so he depends on the forum. And as such, will post an ocassional objection

Has he (whoever that may be) posted a complete description of his problem along with the pertinent log files?

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 7:31 AM

Jack Caviness:

Michael Huffman:
I know a user, a user since the 1.6 days, that his software gets slower with each update. He has contacted CS, to no avail, so he depends on the forum. And as such, will post an ocassional objection

Has he (whoever that may be) posted a complete description of his problem along with the pertinent log files?

Hey Jack,

Good to hear from you. I cannot be sure, Jack, the nature of his post. I know he contacted customer service many, many times and they keep wanting to blame hardware; primarily video RAM. I would understand that if it never ran well, but it did and now it doesn't.

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 8 2010 7:32 AM

Matthew C Jones:

I always wondered why the adjective "good-will" was ever needed in conjunction with the title "Ambassador."   Now I know.

Really? Is that sarcasim how you answer everyone's question? Pity!

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Page 3 of 6 (101 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last » | RSS