Why less women?
Comments
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MJ. Smith said:Jack Caviness said:
How does this show evangelical bias?
My take on this is based on the observation that psalm-scripture based prayer is more common in liturgical churches and intentional communities. Mennonites are a counter-example. These prayer traditions are opened ended and would never think that entering God's response would end the prayer. I know a number of people would like scriptural links for a variety of reasons. But the combination of no links and answers closing off the prayer implies a prayer style quite unlike the psalm-scripture based approach. I'm not proposing that prayer lists be converted into prayer books. I'm suggesting that the prayer lists are not designed for the open ended prayer requests that the psalm-scripture based prayer encourages.
Thank you for the explanation. I also have open-ended prayers which I never mark as answered. However, if I pray for someone who is undergoing surgery, that prayer does have a terminal date—one way or another.
You are correct that most evangelicals do not pray the Psalms, which is our loss.
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Bill Coley said:
There was a season in my faith journey when I probably resembled the stereotypical liberal you describe. I no longer do, but I know beyond doubt that there are many of us who still that bill (often in the name of reason and intellectualism) -- their actions are sinful. From encounters with conservatives, I'm confident there are among them judgmental types who condemn people to hell for failing to ascribe to their particular brand of orthodoxy (often in the name of "what the Bible says") -- their actions, too, are sinful.
I am probably not your garden-variety Fundamentalist. I consider myself to be a Biblical Fundamentalist in the tradition of The Fundamentals. Most who call themselves Fundamentals today are cultural and social fundamentalists. One of my previous professors reportedly stated that "If you are not fighting with someone, you are not a true Fundamentalist." When I heard that, my first thought was "What every happened to Romans 12:18."
Bill Coley said:judgmental types who condemn people to hell for failing to ascribe to their particular brand of orthodoxy
Fortunately, it is God who makes such decisions, not me. My task is to proclaim the Word to the best of my God-given abilities.
Well, it is time to climb down off my soap box.
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MJ. Smith said:Matthew C Jones said:
Because if all children heard godly instruction from their parents, we would have little need for most youth ministries, reform schools and rehabilitation programs.
My first reaction to this was a not very polite. By far the largest contribution to reform school and rehabilitation centers it made by abusive parents or friends - physical and/or psychological abuse.
I understated my point. I did say "godly instruction." But rather than say "heard" I should have said "receive" thus including the living example of righteous, God-serving parents. My attack, if you will, was directed towards the parents in modern society who don't teach their children. The safety-nets were constructed because of the parent's failures. The children are the victims of the adult's ignorance or willful disobedience.
My own mother was another of those shining examples of a godly mom. Any crimes & misdemeanors I [A] or my siblings [6] [6] [6] may accomplish are in spite of Mom's efforts.
If I understand Nancy correctly, Logos would help a lot of women by adding resources they can practically apply to their current ministries, whatever that may be For some it may include pastoral helps and doctrinal materials. To the vast majority of women in my IFB church that would require home schooling helps, home management, lay counseling (Jay Adams' Competent To Counsel ), and "help meet" helps. In other words: Logos needs to keep up the production of new resources. And I cannot think of a better way to prioritize that than the current Community Pricing, Pre-Pubs, and suggestion programs.
An aside: I have noticed the women in my church prefer to surround themselves with things of beauty. So the suggestions to add pastels & Mac style user interface to Logos are not that far fetched. My wife doesn't care how the Logos program does what it does. She just wants it to work. (I doubt she will ever be a power user.)
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Matthew C Jones said:
She just wants it to work
A very good point. L4 was released a year ago. It was released as a final, but was really a beta and has been in beta for a year. I am sure to get jumped on for this statement, but that is okay. Logos knows it is true. That does not mean it was not a good business decision to have released it a year ago. But it has been frustrating to use for many for the past 12 months.
Looking back on how much I have spent on the program, if I did it all over again, I would say it was not worth the price tag. The program in great. It has revolutionized my studying etc. But the cost factor involved would have kept me far away from it as there are cheaper ways to accomplish Bible study.
I would again offer a few suggestions to the main question asked on this thread:
1. Change the license agreement to allow family licenses that, when the children grow up, they can keep their copy of the program. If you are going to give deep discounts to seminary students, why not give a family license that will offer an incentive for a child to grow up on the program and then want to purchase more resources as an adult one day. Without this, the program is not worth the money in my opinion.
2. As the so called Christian Community (or is it the world?) has insanely created a Bible for every subgroup (women's Bible, single's BIble, Men's Bible, Reformed BIble, Teen Bible, Atheist Bible, the Bible for those who are divorced, etc), why not create a Women's Logos package? Homeschooler's logos package? Liberal's package? Fundamentalist package? Sunday School package? Women in ministry package? etc...
3. Stick to a business model and do not change it so radically. I feel for the man who purchased PBB and a month later, L4 came out. Let's face it. the business model in L3 was completely different than L4. I do not think it is wise to change the business model so radically every 5 years. This is one reason why Bob's post on license issues posted 1.5 years ago means nothing to me. It is not an official policy decision. Anytime Logos wants, they can slam the door in the face of families and point to official policy...one user license is what the product is for. It is also why it is disconcerting that there is not official policy on the website (that I am aware of) which states how much it would cost to transfer your license to someone else (sibling for example) when a person with a license dies.
4. The library is huge. The way to organize it is still not easy. Logos has yet to provide with the program, built in collections for example. Collections based on companies etc. We have to do this manually. Not very easy for the average joe.
5. No user manual. You have to pay with time and more money to get instructions on how to use the program (beyond the basics). The model Logos has should be reconsidered. How frustrating to pay HUGE amounts of money for an elite program, and then find out you have to pay more money and TIME to get detailed instructions. I am sure this puts off many men. I think it is a no brainer that it puts off a lot (not all) of women.
This thread has generated a lot of good ideas I think for the folks at Logos to consider. Unfortunately these ideas might be buried amidst hijacks and other posts unrelated to the original question.
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Mark said:
It is also why it is disconcerting that there is not official policy on the website (that I am aware of) which states how much it would cost to transfer your license to someone else (sibling for example) when a person with a license dies.
Hi Mark
Not to take away from the rest of your post but I believe that the policy on transfering a licence is covered in the EULA - http://www.logos.com/ArticleViewer/2090 under the section "Transfers"
Graham
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Graham
Thank you for pointing that out.
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Dan Pritchett said:
We have a Bible Study Magazine that is written by roughly 50% women writers and 50% male writers.
I don't believe that the diversity efforts of BSM can in anyway be factored in. Primarily due to the fact that so much deliberate effort has been implemented in order to disassociate BSM form Logos software. As in:
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/227/3086.aspx#3086
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Mark said:Matthew C Jones said:
She just wants it to work
A very good point. L4 was released a year ago. It was released as a final, but was really a beta and has been in beta for a year. I am sure to get jumped on for this statement, but that is okay. Logos knows it is true. That does not mean it was not a good business decision to have released it a year ago. But it has been frustrating to use for many for the past 12 months.
I need to clarify my quote above. My wife just wants Logos to keep working the way it has been for her. She knows nothing of beta bugs, Mac versions, notes, PBBs, or any of the subjects of regular debate. She is quite content and is increasingly pleased with Logos 4 as she learns new things the program can do.
So a paraphrase of the original quote would be; "My wife wants simplicity, ease of use, a user interface that is intuitive (to her) , and a fast booting or resume to access it quicker." As far as the original thread topic goes; My wife has used online social networking for several years but just started using the computer for Bible study last Spring. Time & simplicity is what she wants.
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Mark said:
2. As the so called Christian Community (or is it the world?) has insanely created a Bible for every subgroup (women's Bible, single's BIble, Men's Bible, Reformed BIble, Teen Bible, Atheist Bible, the Bible for those who are divorced, etc), why not create a Women's Logos package? Homeschooler's logos package? Liberal's package? Fundamentalist package? Sunday School package? Women in ministry package? etc...
5. No user manual. You have to pay with time and more money to get instructions on how to use the program (beyond the basics). The model Logos has should be reconsidered. How frustrating to pay HUGE amounts of money for an elite program, and then find out you have to pay more money and TIME to get detailed instructions. I am sure this puts off many men. I think it is a no brainer that it puts off a lot (not all) of women.
[Y]
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I'll not make the errror of drawing any general conclusions, but I have asked my wife the very same question when I see her avoid Logos in preference for a print edition of a resource.
FWIW my wife is a RN of 36 years, 16 years in Intensive Care and now the infusion guru for a 680 bed hospital group. She is not technology adverse, you can't be when you're working with complicated life support systems that can kill someone as quickly as they can keep someone alive. She is also the head of the Health Ministery at our church. That said though, she finds the extent and complexity of Logos 4 daunting. She also doesn't like reading material on a computer.
That said though, she recently purchased an I-Pad and has been reading a lot of the Logos resources on it. There is probably a clue in there somewhere, but it sounds as though it's time for some focus groups to answer these questions in a less subjective manner.
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Just thinking about the phrase "less women".
Technically, "less" describes quantity, as in weight.
"Fewer" indicates a reduction in number.
So it should be "fewer women".
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Dan Sheppard said:
Just thinking about the phrase "less women".
Technically, "less" describes quantity, as in weight.
"Fewer" indicates a reduction in number.
So it should be "fewer women".
Nice catch Dan. Actually it was attempt at a play-on-words on my part. Less (when used to modify a number) should be used with singular 'mass' nouns (as in something that can not be counted individually.) With my point being that on paper Logos can count the exact number of female licensees, even though in reality there is no way of knowing how many women actually use Logos.
less \ˈles\ adjective
comparative of 1LITTLE [Middle English, partly from Old English l∓s, adverb & noun; partly from lǣssa, adjective; akin to Old Frisian lēs less] before 12th century1 : constituting a more limited number or amount 〈less than three〉 〈less than half done〉
Inc Merriam-Webster, Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary., Eleventh ed. (Springfield, Mass.: Merriam-Webster, Inc., 2003)."As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Well you know that men are prone to put off their Christmas shopping till the last minute....
I couldn't rightly purchase my books before Christmas because they would download immediately.
So Christmas morning with the kids still excited about their presents, I purchased and downloaded my Logos presents.
Logos is man-friendly!
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I've been hearing about Logos for over a year from our church. I phoned them (Logos) today to ask a software capability question and was treated quite rudely. After reading this thread it makes me wonder.........what if my husband had called and asked the same question?
I am looking for software that has many of the features of Logos (with all the research/resource tools), but the simple addition I want is to #1 be able to turn off and on Strong's numbers #2 to be able to take "in-line notes". If I'm reading and come across the word 'love' I want to be able to click on the Strong's number and see if it's agape or phileo, etc and then be able to enter it in parenthesis into the text. I realize Logos will allow me to insert a footnote but I don't always want to have to click-and-go. I would be thrilled to start inserting original words into electronic text and be able to save it. I would think this would be a great feature for Precept students as well.
Am I asking too much? Maybe us women just want more than the men.[;)]
Something like this, Gen 1:1 In the beginning 7225 God 430 ('elohiym ) created 1254 853 the heaven 8064 and 853 the earth 776
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You'll definitely get more answers. But relative to each question: I've not experienced the behavior you mention. Indeed one time my frustration was met with an invitation from the CEO to call him personally (which I did). So if I had to guess, the individual was having a rough day with all the big Logos sales. Regarding #1, the Logos interlinears are line oriented such that you can have english on top, greek/hebrew below, the grammar below that etc. And you can change the ordering (which on top). They have another way which also puts the lines at the bottom of the window. So 'turning Strongs on/off' is just a matter of turning that line on or off. You don't have the numbers in-line with the text as in your example. #2 You were correct ... you can add a note but not literally insert text. My understanding is the tagging / highlighting is linked directly to the text positioning. It would be nice though to have a 'user line' in the interlinear but that's probably a dream. Anyway, I hope you'll give Logos another chance ... the don't like to let people down.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Hi Harbor - and welcome to the forums.
Harbor Linda said:You can turn on and off Strong's numbers by using the Reverse Interlinear feature - you can also customise this to show the original text as well
Taking your example I have turned on Strong's numbers and "Manuscript (transliterated)" and I get the following:
To change the reverse interlinear settings click on the "Display" button at the top of the panel and select the options you want:
For more information about how to use this feature please see http://wiki.logos.com/Reverse-Interlinear$2fInterlinear__Bibles
(There are some restrictions in "cover" in that - for example - the NIV has currently only get the New Testament in RI format not the Old Testament but there are a number of translations with complete RI capability.)
The Strong's entries are hoverable and clickable to take you to more information.
In terms of taking notes, you can take notes and associate it with a verse or passage but it isn't "inline" - it is kept as a "parallel" resource.For an introduction to Notes please see http://wiki.logos.com/Notes
On the front page of the Logos wiki - http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Bible_Software_Wiki - you will see references to a number of videos produced by Mark Barnes. Numbers 5 & 10 will give you more information about Reverse Interlinears and Notes respectively.
Hope this helps.
If you need more detailed information I would suggest that you start a new thread and I am sure people will try and help.
Graham
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Trust me, this is not a gender issue. After my question was rebuffed, I directly contacted Bob (Bob@logos.com) he sent a reply apologizing for this and gave me the solution his customer support would not and could not (didn't use the program said the CS person) give. Logos rapidly expanded its customer support reps after Logos4 rollout and not all of those hires seem to have knowledge of the program and some lack in people skills.
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Thanks everyone.[:)] So, I really like the feature with having the original text above (or below) - so one problem solved and questioned answered - thank you, but 'in-line' notes just seems like such a natural thing to me - especially while you are learning original languages. It's great to see the word 'agape' in text below the word 'love', but if I don't know what agape means then I have to click and look it up. Now, this is fine, I would expect so much - but once I read the meaning I want to be able to write that meaning in parenthesis in 'my' Bible.
This seems like a no brainer, word processing is such an easy, easy feature. If Logos can insert a number - linked to a footnote, it seems like an easy programing upgrade to be able to insert text.
Any one know of any programs that do this?
Precept people would be all over this software if it did. (I'm not in Precepts, but I'd love the feature.)Linda
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Harbor Linda said:
This seems like a no brainer, word processing is such an easy, easy feature.
Scarcely - think of the additional complexity when there is an upgrade to the base resource; think of the additional complexity of the search for the "My Content" segment.
You can always paste your reading material section by section into Notes where you would be able to insert inline notes.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Linda ... specific to your example of an english definition, those are also included in the interlinears as another line. Actually there's often 2 choices of english, depending on your preferences. But I've not seen in-line editing in any product. I wrote my own Bible software mainly for analytics and pattern visualization. Like you, I wanted to write directly into the text, so I included that in my own software. The idea is quite handy especially when you don't agree with the translation or want to expand it a bit.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Linda
Apologies for referring to you by your last name in my earlier post.
Graham
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This is not to say that women can't learn the finer points of Logos at all. They certainly can. Before I did say that I don't think as many women are into computers and this type of Bible software as men are. They just like different things and at this point study the Bible differently. I am just throwing out the statement that someone made that Logos "just needs to work." What if there was a scaled down version, a version that gives you the basics and prioritizes your books and sets up collections and reading plans and so forth for you. Would that be helpful for people who might not normally be into this kind of software?
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Jack Caviness said:
I consider myself to be a Biblical Fundamentalist in the tradition of The Fundamentals. Most who call themselves Fundamentals today are cultural and social fundamentalists. One of my previous professors reportedly stated that "If you are not fighting with someone, you are not a true Fundamentalist."
I would join your group if the label were not so mis-understood. I relate very favorably to R.A.Torrey's "The Fundamentals" I am afraid I don't rise to the fighting part. I tried to join a forum called "Fighting Fundamentalists" but they rejected my application! ~~true story~~
I truly believe I am somewhat tolerant because I have attended worship service in a Fundamentalist congregation since 1997. [:O] I have had many opportunities to "tolerate" and love the brethren. Sometimes their passion amazes me.
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Jeremy said:
This is not to say that women can't learn the finer points of Logos at all. They certainly can. Before I did say that I don't think as many women are into computers and this type of Bible software as men are. They just like different things and at this point study the Bible differently. I am just throwing out the statement that someone made that Logos "just needs to work." What if there was a scaled down version, a version that gives you the basics and prioritizes your books and sets up collections and reading plans and so forth for you. Would that be helpful for people who might not normally be into this kind of software?
Why should they worry their pretty little heads with all that langauge stuff....they could just ask a man..who knows how to just press a button for all the automated information...lol...[6] On a more serious note i wonder what women think about needing a easy mode for this software.
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Matthew C Jones said:
I am afraid I don't rise to the fighting part.
I know you did not do it intentionally, but you too this comment out-of-context. After the quote, I added "I wonder whatever happened to Romans 12:18. In other words, I thought he was totally wrong. We are called to contend for the faith, but we are not to be contentious (unfortunately, I sometimes fail in this part).
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You took the words right out of my mouth.Rene Atchley said:i wonder what women think about needing a easy mode for this software
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Rene Atchley said:
Why should they worry their pretty little heads with all that langauge stuff....they could just ask a man..who knows how to just press a button for all the automated information...lol...
On a more serious note i wonder what women think about needing a easy mode for this software.I am glad you qualified the first half of your post as a less-serious note. My wife doesn't lurk much on the forums but she does go for all that language stuff. Until I got her Logos she would cover the dining room table with language reference works digging for the gold to be found beneath the text. An "easy mode" of exclusively in-depth language study would be welcomed by her. She is much less concerned with what my heroes (Ironside, Geisler, Schaeffer, MacArthur, McGee, WBC, NIC*T, etc) have to say in the matter. ( How in the world do we get along? We are so different sometimes. [A] [6] )
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Rene Atchley said:
i wonder what women think about needing a easy mode for this software.
EASY MODE = ??
- fast booting
- birds singing while it boots
- no commentaries
- no systematic theologies
- no banner ads or push marketing
- pastel customizable toolbars & borders
- integrated word studies & language helps
- daily muffin recipe suggestions.
It is possible, you know.
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Some of this thread has, or is, becoming an excuse to repeat what has happened to women theologically and culturally for a thousands years or more in the west imo. Suchoki and Reuther are not particularly my cup of tea but they tend to point out the paternalism that allows whole communities of believers to classify categories of individuals as less in the Kingdom.
If there is a need for a better or easier interface then there is obviously a problem with the interface without regard to one's physical formation. If there is a problem with cost of the product that is so without regard to one's physical formation. If there is a problem with endless meaningless buy more stuff from this company then it exists without regard to one's physical formation. When an OT professor of theology has a problem getting a piece of software to work then there is a problem without regard to his or her physical formation. So whats the point? What problems and strength exists with Logos software does so independent of gender and which hormones they have in their body imo. Sell more product=improve the product.
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Rene Atchley said:
Sell more product=improve the product.
I can think of another reason there is a gender disparity found among Logos users. Around my neighborhood the women folk tend to work longer than the men. If they are busy from sunrise till midnight they will not find the time to discover, explore or use Logos. So if the busy people can be introduced to Logos and be convinced it will save them time while making their Bible study more productive, then they just might go for it.
Wider exposure = more sales
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Rene Atchley said:
Some of this thread has, or is, becoming an excuse to repeat what has happened to women theologically and culturally for a thousands years or more in the west imo. Suchoki and Reuther are not particularly my cup of tea but they tend to point out the paternalism that allows whole communities of believers to classify categories of individuals as less in the Kingdom.
If there is a need for a better or easier interface then there is obviously a problem with the interface without regard to one's physical formation. If there is a problem with cost of the product that is so without regard to one's physical formation. If there is a problem with endless meaningless buy more stuff from this company then it exists without regard to one's physical formation. When an OT professor of theology has a problem getting a piece of software to work then there is a problem without regard to his or her physical formation. So whats the point? What problems and strength exists with Logos software does so independent of gender and which hormones they have in their body imo. Sell more product=improve the product.
[Y][Y][Y][Y][Y]
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A product that works as advertised = Happier Customers who won't look elsewhere for a product that actually works as advertised.
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We’ve gotten some great feedback here. Thank you all for your input!
We’re really trying to make 2011 the year that we get into this incredible market. This market could greatly benefit from our products, but what are the best ways to reach them? How can we let them know about all the fantastic features of Logos?
Let us know what you think!
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Deni Avant said:
what are the best ways to reach them?
My wife & her friends (mostly church ladies) have limited their interaction with the secular world (no Oprah, GMA or similar TV.)
I have noticed they DO spend a lot of time on facebook and listen to Christian "family" radio programming. Snail-mail gets to them if directly addressed. Otherwise they all seem very busy with children, husbands, and ministering in their neighborhoods and at church. (They avoid telemarketers.)
This is just the observations of a stay-at-home husband with a very busy wife.
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Deni Avant said:
We’ve gotten some great feedback here. Thank you all for your input!
We’re really trying to make 2011 the year that we get into this incredible market. This market could greatly benefit from our products, but what are the best ways to reach them? How can we let them know about all the fantastic features of Logos?
Let us know what you think!
Hi Deni,
I am assuming that you work for Logos even thou you do not have a Logos' icon below your name.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, address the issues that cause only 7% of your users to be female BEFORE you attempt to "get into this incredible market." If you do not address the issues, you will be driving customers away from Logos.
If the changes that need to be made force the male designers/decision makers to eat crow, make them eat crow before you attempt to "get into this incredible market." [;)]
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tom collinge said:
If the changes that need to be made force the male designers/decision makers to eat crow,
edited: If we are going to try to attract ladies to use Logos software I am going to have to learn not to post pictures of guys with crows stuffed in their mouths.
HAPPY NEW YEAR everybody!
Guys, you've only got a few more hours to buy your wife a Bible Study Library and add the Christmas 2010 Master Collection for 97% off retail.
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Deni Avant said:
This market could greatly benefit from our products, but what are the best ways to reach them?
Some items from standard consumer research:
- Word of mouth is often the best way to promote a product or service to women.
- Highlight the benefits
- Communicate clearly what the benefit is but be interesting and stylish in the way it's promoted.
- Provide incentive referrals (this is often cited as the most effective)
- Highlight the benefits
- Speak to women about how your product or service is going to appeal to them as a mom, a wife, a daughter, a friend, or a partner.
- An affordable home school curriculum will open up a market of 2,378,000 potential customers.
- Women multi-task. Make sure you are hitting women from all angles.
- In their cars,
- In their homes
- At the stores
- In their workplace.
- Think non-linear, look for marketing opportunities across the board.
- Look at advertising on radio
- Billboards
- In-store
- Through demographically appropriate print
- On-line
- Direct mail
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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A good reference:
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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I posted a question to an online study class I am getting ready to take asking the instructor if I needed any resources outside of a Logos package to get through the inductive study of Matthew. I have gotten FIVE emails from women already. They want to know all about Logos - what I use it for, how to get more info, differences in the packages, how it compares to other free and paid ways to study using a computer, etc. Two own it and are overwhelmed. The others are considering a purchase.
K
"But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry." 2 Timothy 4:5 (NASB)
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As a woman who uses Logos, let me share with you from my perspective perhaps some of the reasons there are less women using Logos.
One of the major issues is the cost. I love Logos and I love what I can learn from the program, but it is expensive. Years ago a friend had the developer of CD Word to give my boss and I a free copy of the program. Logos took over CD Word and that is how I started using Logos. Before that, I was using a Logos competitor. If that friend had not done that, I don't know if I would have ever made the switch to Logos. Thus COST is a major issue.
I don't know if this is typical of women or not, but I do read the manuals that accompany products! I appreciate what Morris Proctor has done with his development of manuals, but this should be what Logos is providing for their customers free of charge. It is one thing to have to fork out a lot of money to purchase the software, but then you have to put out even more to find out how the product works. And yes, I know about the forums (I have used them from the early days), as well as Mark Barnes' videos (thanks so much Mark! They are excellent!), and the wiki, etc. But when I purchase a new "electronic toy," I can't wait to start playing with it! I don't want to have to go here and there to find out the details. I just want to read the manual and let the play begin!! Thus, MANUALS should be provided as part of the product.
Another aid to increasing women in the customer base would be targeting the right audiences. For example I worked at Precept Ministries for over 16 years before I left for the mission field. In the Precept studies, you do what is called an "Observation Worksheet," which is just the NAS95 text printed out, double-spaced, with wide margins. As you read through your Observation Worksheets, you mark your key words with a specific color and/or symbol. This is so easy using Logos' highlighting. If the Precept students knew that there was such a program available, they would come in droves. And if you fixed a "style" of text, called Observation Worksheets, you would have customers for life. But once again, the cost would be disheartening. If you had a small "Basic Precept Package" that included the NAS95, with some word studies and a few commentaries for $50, you would have an influx of women customers! If, that is, they knew such an animal existed. Thus TARGETED AUDIENCE with SPECIFIC SOFTWARE PACKAGES would make a difference. I'm sure that would work for other ministries as well, but especially with Precept studies, since they involve inductive studies. (And I can't resist responding to an earlier comment that women don't like in depth students. A majority of the thousands of people who do Precept studies are women. So, yes, we do love in depth studies!)
So, Logos, I hope this helps. These are just a few ideas I had.
Charlene
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Charlene,
I think your comments are valuable and I agree!
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My wife's Mom is asking about Logos lately. I have just learned today your three main points are also common to her (& my wife,)
- She really would like a package with that "Inductive" style sheet capability for her own notes
- She has taught Sunday School for many years with books spread across her table. She desires simplicity,
- She would never buy a Scholar package, Platinum or Portfolio. .Affordability matters.
- and intuitiveness. (Horrors, she told me her next computer will be a Mac! [:|] But she still wants a software manual.
What I found interesting is she first asked her daughter (my wife) for input, she then asked her friends (ladies), then she asked me. My wife had already referred her to the Logos website yet she still values the word-of-mouth opinions of her inner circle. (I think I am in the outer ring of the pond. [C] )
This lady is an avid reader, an active church member (large congregation), socially active for fun and community service. Yet she trusts her friends' over all the advertising she will encounter.
Charlene said:I don't know if this is typical of women or not,
Is any woman typical? Somehow I think you have probably described MOST women for Logos. Could it be hard-wired in Creation? I don't relate to it mentally. With the ability to just share my extensive Logos library (5000 resources) with my wife I find it odd she prefers her own Bible Study Library with it's small count of 220 resources. Odd to me. She also wants a yellow VW beetle rather than a Lamborghini. Odd.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Hey Denise, I've decided to take the plunge, like you. Only I don't write software so I'll have to hire someone. In thinking about this, I am wondering about copyright laws. Every version, with the exception of the KJ, is copyrighted.
I would imagine that Strong's is copyrighted also. It would be nice to have 2 or 3 versions, with the original text below along with a Strong's link. Then of course, as you said - 'in line notes, highlighting and maybe symbols - as Precepts do. Any tips Denise, on how to go about this? (I'm also wondering about Mac vs. PC for this software)
I agree with you Charlene, if Logos would do what you mentioned (along with inline note taking capability - not just highlighting and symbols) all for a reasonable price - they would have customers galore. Once they are using Logos, then they may be intersted in purchasing more commentaries and historical information.
Linda
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Linda ... if you seach the web, you can find quite a number of translations that publishers let you download for personal use (NET comes to mind, though doesn't include the notes). Public domain is similar, again as long as you're not re-publishing. Else you have to worry if really public domain. I've use Youngs, Darby, KJV and the LXX quite a bit. Similarly you can find in-line with Strongs plus simple Strongs lookups. I'd start with your major publishers and see which they allow download for personal use.
In terms of programming, I'd keep it simple so it's easy to change as needed. Even though I write in quite a number of languages, I still do the daily stuff in a compilable Basic or similar. An activeX or similar that read/writes RTF files is all that you really need and doesn't cost much. Plus some type of simple database; your programmer will have a favorite.
The other thing, if indeed you 'roll your own', is the option for text vs spreadsheet. I have both, but mainly use the latter, in order to have columns for text, notes, statistical patterns, and classification (e.g. theology, type of teaching, and various studies I'm doing). You'll find after while, it grows with your interests.
If need more: dmbarnhart at esedona dot net. Good luck!!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Harbor Linda said:
Every version, with the exception of the KJ, is copyrighted.
Technically, in Great Britain, the King James Version is still held under perpetual copyright by the Crown of England. The rest of the world does not recognize the claim and the Queen does not seem to be complaining. See the Wikipedia article and scroll down to "copyright status."
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Looking for information here about spouses sharing the software and ran across this thread.
I use the software all the time. I lead Bible studies for ladies in my church and in recent years have written a few. The resources that Logos provides are invaluable to me. But in all honesty - cost is the main issue for me. I am a stay at home mom. I'm not in full time ministry with a ministry base to pay for my needs. Consequently, I buy resources as I need them - and very carefully, too. I get very frustrated with the cost of resources. I have a fair sized hard-back library. I also have an "older deluxe" version of "QuickVerse". And having to pay (once again) for many of the same resource I already own in one form or another is irritating.
One thing that would help (for me) is to have more of the "individual volumes" available. For instance ... I'm working on a Bible study for Proverbs. I'm interested in NICOT volume but the only way to get it is to spend $1600 for the entire set of both OT and NT. There is no way I can afford that. I would certainly consider a small set that included the "wisdom literature". IT'S DIGITAL, FOLKS! YOU CAN DO THIS!!!
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Diane,Dianne Thornton said:One thing that would help (for me) is to have more of the "individual volumes" available.
The good news is that Logos is working to break up many of these collections. Unfortunately it's not always up to them. The publishers have a major say in what and how they can sell. In many cases the cost of getting a resource available is signing an agreement with the publisher that until X they will only sell the set as a whole. We have no idea what the NIC requirements were and I seriously understand you can't drop for the whole set just to get the proverbs commentary. Perhaps the best thing would be to petition Eerdmans to permit Logos to break the set up (though it probably won't work and in some corner of my mind could make things difficult for Logos).
Short answer: I know Logos would love to sell you the proverbs commentary, if they can't it may not be their fault.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
As a woman, I'd like to agree with Charlene's post earlier.
As a Bible College/Seminary graduate, I would love to be a Logos user, but I simply cannot afford it at this stage. My husband is the breadwinner of our family, and so the budget for me "indulging" in the Scholar's library - even though I'd love to - is just not there.
But don't worry, I'm saving up for it. I just can't do it at the moment. :-)
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Kristen Young said:
so the budget for me "indulging" in the Scholar's library
While it is very minimal remember that the Logos 4 engine is free and there are a few free resources.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Kristen Young said:
As a Bible College/Seminary graduate, I would love to be a Logos user, but I simply cannot afford it at this stage.
I understand the problem, I just wanted to make sure you are aware of the academic discounts and the payment plans.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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