I GIVE UP

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 5 2011 3:59 PM

Patrick S.:
wave the white flag and abandon ship

I did not choose the surrender metaphor, the OP did.

I'm not asking anyone to abandon Logos, just pointing out the option of running it under Windows. Most here claim they were once Windows users. If their dedication is to Bible study they can accomplish that well without buying another license. (A $200 PC will run Logos 4.)  Logos is unique to allow installation on many different devices without requiring an additional license. I had to purchase two separate (expensive) licenses to move Adobe Creative Suite from my PC to Mac systems.

Rather than panicking, "The island's sinking, let's take to the sky".....  How about we take a good look at the present situation:

  • Logos has produced a very impressive Bible software program for Windows.
  • Bob Pritchett has generously defined the EULA.
  • Logos is available on mobile devices without extra charge
  • Logos has made long strides toward Mac/Win parity
  • Different devices - one license.

Patrick S.:
well then maybe you might just be escorted out.

I think I hear boots outside in in the hall!


To everyone else: You can use your one license to run Logos on both Mac and Windows platforms. Bob says parity is coming.I believe him..

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 5 2011 4:39 PM

For those with speed issues, here is a brief video demonstrating L4 Mac 4.2 Beta 3 on a 2008 MBP 2.4 4 gigs. Let me know if there are specific areas you want to see. I did not open the Parallel Passages in the PG or the Word By Word in the EG as both still need some work. I do see some areas that have improved.

Here is the link to the video (no sound):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zu36oas9Uc

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 5 2011 4:51 PM

 

Jack Caviness:
I really don't understand why anyone who has been with L4 Mac for any period of time would give up now. The progress made in the last couple of months is amazing.

 

Even more hard to understand is the few who have been alpha users who want a refund yes until this summer (if my memory serves) it was frustrating so little was working well.  But while i might agree it might have been nice to have parity before official release, all in all Logos4 Mac works respectively well.

Complaints - reality (as I see it).

It's not fast - Slow to start up, but function has become faster and they are working on it.

it is a resource hog - Logos is a big program that is very complex, and requires a significant  amount of time to index things fully, once this is done I am not saying it is smooth sailing but it uses relatively a reasonable amount of computer processing/memory.

It has too many bugs for a released product - Yes it is not perfect, NO computer program is, they are working on it and it will be squashing bugs and adding the remaining features ASAP. I do occasionally have to Force Quit, but otherwise the typical 2 hours a day i am using it it works fine.

Interface in not mac like- No it's not the most mac like program. It is far better than the windows side from what i have seen, and is not overly hard to get use to. Once program parity is reached niceties of the interface can be addressed, until then it's pointless to worry about worrying about the finishings of a room while it's being rewired and constructed.

I respect that some users find the above complaints unacceptable and I can appreciate the reality behind each of them. Bob has already stated he is willing to refund unhappy users, that is all he can do.  I would never ask for a refund for this wonderful program. It needs work but then so does most everything. Except Jesus (although even he Has holes in his hands and feet). Big Smile

-Dan

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 5 2011 11:40 PM

Dating self: remember using 8 inch floppy disks in a classroom PC (too $$$$ for personal purchase) - previously stored BASIC programs on audio magnetic tape (no disk nor floppy drive) and punched paper tape.

Matthew C Jones:
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Tehcnical observation and learning: Apple includes 200+ open source projects http://www.apple.com/opensource/ in Mac OS X, including UNIX core (based on BSD variant).


Deeper technical observation: Apple produced 9 operating systems that were inferior to Unix before throwing in the towel and adopting the superior design. A design created by people other than Apple programmers.

NeXT Wink  By the way, wikipedia has history of Mac OS => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS  Trivia tidbit: version 7.6 was first one with Mac OS splash screen (appeared on 15 operating system revisions: 7.6.*, 8.*, and 9.*).

Wish Apple would change one user interface item from original design - can only resize a window by dragging lower right corner (Microsoft initially embraced convention, then extended so a window can be resized by dragging any side).

Thankful Logos 4 on Mac and PC allows panel resizing from any side inside Logos 4 window.

Matthew C Jones:
Meanwhile, to everybody on the Mac platform who are ready to wave the white flag and abandon ship; Whisper  Logos runs rather nicely under Windows. You might give it a try. Seriously, & I'm not "playing" around here.

Logos 4 Mac overview Wiki page has included Windows virtualization for over a year => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Mac#Need_Logos_4_PC_feature.3f

Personally use Logos 4 on Mac and PC - prefer Mac - looking forward to stable feature parity.  Thankful can use my Logos 4 library on many devices.

From hardware perspective, Apple Mac's tend to have a significantly longer usable life span than PC's (from several manufacturer's); PowerMax has a trade-in program => http://www.powermax.com/ and offers used Mac's for sale (with 90 day warranty).  Mac OS X 10.6 was first version that was Intel only, shipped 3 years after Apple discontinued PowerPC models (know several PowerPC models still being used: 4+ years old).

Keep Smiling Smile

 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 5 2011 11:58 PM

In some ways miss Mac Alpha release excitement - impressed and Thankful for Logos 4 progress.

Dan Francis:
Interface in not mac like- No it's not the most mac like program. It is far better than the windows side from what i have seen, and is not overly hard to get use to. Once program parity is reached niceties of the interface can be addressed, until then it's pointless to worry about worrying about the finishings of a room while it's being rewired and constructed.

Concur along with being Thankful Logos 4 is fairly consistent to use on Mac and PC - quite helpful in any situation where both platforms are being used.

Wonder what should be added to Wiki page ? => http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_and_PC_User_Interface_Differences

Any ideas for Mac only enhancements ? (already has one Easter Egg)

Wonder about Logos 4 startup guide ? Installation (resource download), Initial Indexing (search not usable until indexing done), Library prioritize (e.g. Bibles)  similar to quick setup guides included with new Mac's and PC's.

Also wonder about including some examples for initial install ? e.g. Bible Collection => type:bible

Keep Smiling Smile

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2011 1:13 AM

Well 'Basil' were you home schooled? It certainly seems so with the stuff you have been coming out with so far....

Matthew C Jones:

Patrick S.:
wave the white flag and abandon ship

You should be careful about lying and misquoting people. I did NOT say that, you said it, again let me quote you verbatim, as I did originally (that's what " " double quotes are in case you didn't learn that in home schooling)...

Matthew C Jones:

Meanwhile, to everybody on the Mac platform who are ready to wave the white flag and abandon ship; Whisper Logos runs rather nicely under Windows. You might give it a try. Seriously, & I'm not "playing" around here.

 

And your cynical and arrogant answer to all Mac users, who have in good faith raised honest concerns in this forum, is...

Matthew C Jones:

A $200 PC will run Logos 4.

Whereby, yet again, you totally miss the point that there are users in this forum who have $2,000+ machines and they are not happy about how Logos runs on those machines. And those machines are typically better than Windows computers, and they don't want to run Windows - they have left that behind of their own choice!

 

Matthew C Jones:

To everyone else: You can use your one license to run Logos on both Mac and Windows platforms.

Wow, Basil, thank you for that amazing piece of news! None of us knew that! You see we're only dumb 'ol Mac users here. Thank you so much!!.

 

Mr Jones (Basil), the Fawlty Towers episode you refer to by pasting that picture has Basil Fawlty insulting Germans by insensitively stomping around aping Hitler. Let's see - look at your recent postings in this forum and tell me who is the one who has been stomping around insensitively.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2011 1:28 AM

Patrick S.:
You should be careful about lying and misquoting people. I did NOT say that, you said it, again let me quote you verbatim, as I did originally (that's what " " double quotes are in case you didn't learn that in home schooling)...

This particular forum software makes it easy to accidentally mistake the original poster of a quote ... please give the poster the benefit of the doubt. How do I know? y having done it a few times. Smile

Yes, we know that people are not all happy with how Logos runs on their machines ... and we know that they are over-represented on the forums because that's where to go when you are having problems.  We also know that posts can easily e  misinterpreted because one does not get body language and intonation. So as my Mother often said"Tone it down, you guys. I have a headache."

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Jason Alligood | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2011 4:34 AM

Is anyone monitoring this forum?

Gents (and maybe ladies, don't remember seeing any in this thread, but just in case), Things are beginning to degrade on this thread rather quickly. The truth is we should not have to be monitored by admins. I know this is not a "Christian" forum per se, but I would guess that since we are talking Bible software, we are all at least claiming to be Christ followers. Let me just say this vitriol is disconcerting. I believe we have now flogged this horse into decay. If you are unhappy with Logos, Mr. Pritchett has offered you your money back. If you prefer Mac over Windows or vice versa, are we willing to divide Christ over these matters? I have friendly banter with my friends over the fact that I use Mac and they use Windows, but come on guys, please. Keep in mind Ephesians 4:3 and Romans 15:7.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2011 4:46 AM

Jason Alligood:
maybe ladies, don't remember seeing any in this thread

Just above your post is a lady: M J Smith is Martha, and she is a lady.

Jason Alligood:
I have friendly banter with my friends over the fact that I use Mac and they use Windows, but come on guys, please.

Matthew has made friendly jabs at me in the past. He could have been misinterpreted. That is easy to do with this mode of communication.

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2011 6:25 AM

Jack Caviness:

Matthew has made friendly jabs at me in the past. He could have been misinterpreted.

Dear Jack

Thanks for your reply. Friendly jabs are one thing — I have given and got in that vein here and in other forums over many years. However I don't see how Mr Jones' comments can be interpreted in any other way but ad hominem and insulting.

Part of me regrets my last post to him, but the other part feels he should watch how he speaks in writing — jokes may be one thing with someone you know, but are easily misread with those you don't. Anyway, overall, I feel his manner was very inappropriate.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2011 8:54 AM

Patrick S.:
Well 'Basil' were you home schooled?


Indifferent      Did you really just post that?

Patrick S.:
You should be careful about lying and misquoting people. I did NOT say that,


I apologize for the way the forum software misrepresents quotes sometimes. (I think it is Unix-based.)  "MJ" (Martha) is correct about that. If readers would follow the thread they could easily see You were quoting my paraphrase of the op's thread title.

Patrick S.:
in case you didn't learn that in home schooling)...


Indifferent Oh no, you did it again!?

Patrick S.:
And your cynical and arrogant answer to all Mac users


Patrick S.:
None of us knew that!


I am not being cynical. I know some users refuse to run any machine that is not a Mac. and I respect their right to do that.  (Fierce loyalty is a tenet I apply to Logos Bible software.) My comments are for those who don't mind switching horses midstream to get to their destination faster. The Pony Express did that - I learned that in homeschool.  I just wanted to inform users they have that option. As to the multi-platform use of the Logos EULA, a frequent question in the forums is, "Do I have to repurchase all my Logos resources to switch to Mac?" As obvious as it is to you and I, not everyone knows they have this flexibility.

Patrick S.:
Basil Fawlty insulting Germans


Basil is mocking the ideology of N@zi-ism. I find it is more racially offensive to paint all Germans as sympathetic to N@zi-ism.

fwiw: I love the German people. I have quite a few in my family tree. Then a certain intellectual decided to box them up in cattle cars. Present day Germany still outlaws that intellectual's ideology of intolerance and ethnic cleansing. Besides, Oktoberfest is one of my favorite holidays.

   kinda looks like a Veggie-Tale character, don't he.

Well Patrick, I did not intend any offense to you, Mac users, Germans, or the ladies who read the forums. I hope you understand me a little better and I extend an olive branch in the hopes of future friendship with thee.  Don't look now, but I think there is a rogue band of homeschoolers running up behind you. Wink

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Ray D | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 4:44 AM

Matthew C Jones:
Well Patrick, I did not intend any offense to you,

Hi Matthew,

If you really mean that, you might want to ask Patrick's forgiveness. Because I like Patrick, as someone who had legitimate concerns with Logos4 Mac, I found your post in poor taste and quite honestly antagonistic. Please consider this Matthew. I personally use Logos to prepare sermons each week. Not sure if you are a pastor, but if you are, you will know the demand for your time. And when the software that is intended to help you prepare your sermon is atually getting in the way. That is very frustrating, especially in view of the kind of $$$ invested. So in my case, I made some post in this forum as a last ditch effort before I switched to another software. I couln't continue to use the software in it's curent state. I have a brand new Mac and I do not have access to a PC, so your comments read to me as flippant and were adding to my frustration and not helping the conversation.

I hope that helps.

Blessings,

Ray

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 9:48 AM

Dear Jack & Ray

Thanks for your kind comments, both on and off forum.

I think Matthew has, in his own way (and I mean that sincerely), apologised and I accept that and hope he accepts my apology for overreacting. Things got a little heated over an already (over)heated topic.

 

@Matthew the only thing I would say/request is that you consider a little before posting some of your unique ways of expressing things — particularly things like pictures portraying Hitler. In my case you don't know my last name (not English) and where I live, but it's not the US and being referenced with Hitler (in any way) is somewhat upsetting.

Anyway I think we can move on both older and wiser.

All the best

Patrick

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 6:08 PM

Patrick S.:
I think Matthew has, in his own way (and I mean that sincerely), apologised and I accept that and hope he accepts my apology for overreacting. Things got a little heated over an already (over)heated topic.

Thank you Patrick, thank you for understanding and forgiving. I don't hold your zeal against you either.

I obviously do not understand the Mac faithful. I was only offering a stop-gap measure (Windows) that would achieve the end goal of successful Bible study without the total abandonment of the vehicle (Logos). Choice of computer platforms do not equate to marriage vows in my own mind. I'd never trade in my wife but I will run Adobe on a Mac while I run Logos on a PC. I just use what gets the job done best. I never intended to hurt anyone.

Patrick S.:
In my case you don't know my last name (not English) and where I live, but it's not the US and being referenced with Hitler (in any way) is somewhat upsetting.

I grew up in a society outside of the USA; a society that once believed they were the true divine race rather than the Germans. I even sat in a limousine with a man who has since assumed "god-hood" and ascended the Imperial throne of that race. I can not imagine the gravity of your environment, and I'll sometimes forget more than Jews were hurt by that Adolphian personification of evil. I only intended to laugh at intolerance. The British humor was my graphic hyperbole.  I lament posting flippant comments amidst sensitive people. I love the Bible message too. I have wronged my family in this thread. I'm sorry for that accomplishment too.

Since pictures are worth a thousand words, I should have used a thumbnail still life of a mixed bowl of fruit. Since I can't find one on Google I will have to settle for this diversity: 

edit: moving on..

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 6:33 PM

Matthew C Jones:
I obviously do not understand the Mac faithful.

To paraphrase I subtitle I once read in Golf Magazine: It is not about life and death. It is something more important than that. It is about your Mac. Cool

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