Logos 4 for Mac is so slow!

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This post has 14 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 7
Big Rich | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 29 2010 9:58 PM

I had high hopes for Logos 4 for Mac.  I am kind of sorry I spent the money for the upgrade.  I wish I had waited for the next version or at least the next stable one.  Logos 4 for Mac is so extremely slow.  Even if I am in offline mode, it is very slow, matter of fact, slower.  I am running a Core 2 Duo 2.13 Ghtz, 4GB of RAM and I have over 200GB of available hard disk space.

Logos, please do something about this, you have to make it quick.  Your program really is the best on the market, but its inability to use it makes it almost useless.

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 29 2010 10:52 PM

Welcome Big Smile

Please describe how to repeat slowness, especially "almost useless".

Logos 4 is a complex resource intensive application.  Logos development team wants to improve performance - they appreciate repeatable steps (enables improving code that is slow).

Personally surprised by offline mode being slower.  Wonder if Logos 4 indexing has completed ?

Note: when downloading or indexing, a blue Logos icon appears in menu bar (right side)  - trying to use Logos 4 while indexing in progress is quite slow.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 29 2010 11:09 PM

Richard Millentree:

I had high hopes for Logos 4 for Mac.  I am kind of sorry I spent the money for the upgrade.  I wish I had waited for the next version or at least the next stable one.  Logos 4 for Mac is so extremely slow.  Even if I am in offline mode, it is very slow, matter of fact, slower.  I am running a Core 2 Duo 2.13 Ghtz, 4GB of RAM and I have over 200GB of available hard disk space.

Logos, please do something about this, you have to make it quick.  Your program really is the best on the market, but its inability to use it makes it almost useless.

Can you please quantify "slow". As other poster has said Logos 4 is a sophisticated (complex) application and there could actually be multiple factors. There have even been cases where people strongly complain about speed and it is found in the end that they have a corrupt installation which affected the application speed dramatically.

Also L4M does a lot of accessing of the HDD when you load up a verse/passage because it is opening many resources.

That's why it's necessary to confirm has your installation been successfully completed / fully indexed etc.

Regarding quantifying speed can I recommend that you have a look at my post (link below) and do simple test yourself to see (roughly) what numbers you get.

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/27321/203019.aspx#203019

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 1721
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 29 2010 11:13 PM

Our first priority was "feature parity" with the Windows edition. Now that that's basically achieved, we've begun dedicating resources to optimization. Future releases will show speed improvements.

Sorry it's not where you want it yet!

Posts 100
Richard | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2010 6:02 AM

I agree that Logos for Mac is slower than any other application on my laptop, and I would definitely like to see it faster.  However, I can't describe it as "unusable."  

I went from a mid-range PC laptop to a MacBook Pro, 2.4GHz, 4Gb RAM, 7200RPM HDD.  It is definitely a speed improvement.  The mid-range PC is unusable.  The Mac is very usable, and it sounds like we have comparable laptops, with the possible exception of the hard drive.  I would encourage you to get a 7200RPM drive (default from Apple is 5400RPM).  I can also post easy instructions for cloning and swapping your hard drive if you need that.  Logos hits the hard drive pretty heavily, so if you have a slower hard drive, you're going to feel the drag.  BTW, a 500GB 7200RPM WD Black Scorpio HDD is just $70 at Amazon.

-- Richard

Logos 6 Mac (always the latest beta)

MacBook Air Mid 2011 (Lion)  |  1.8GHz Core i7  |  4GB RAM  |  256GB SSD
Samsung Galaxy S5

Posts 7
Big Rich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2010 9:48 PM

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

If I disconnect my computer from the Internet and launch Logos, it will take close to a minute before the application launches.  Not only is launch time slow, when I try to open Paralel resources its slow, when I search its slow. 

I am online with it right now, and I have searched for the word "David" in the OT in the ESV version of the Bible.  The search says it was done in 1.08 seconds, but after 40 seconds the column where the search results are listed is still frozen and I cannot interact with it.  When the screen finally unlocks and I try to scroll with the scroll bar I can scroll about a half of an inch and the search results have to repaint themselves on the screen...really!?!

These are just two small examples.

Posts 7
Big Rich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2010 9:54 PM

Patrick S - Thank you for your reply and trying to get my Version of L4M running as it should.  If you use Microsoft Office 2008 for your Mac, no doubt you are very frustratred by how long it takes to just start the application and beging to use Microsoft Word.  This is exactly what Logos reminds me of.  Microsoft totally redeemed themselves with Office 2011 it is very quick and awesome!  They got it right.  This is my hope for Logos 4 Mac.  

Logos is fully installed and has been since it came out, it is fully indexed as well.

Posts 7
Big Rich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2010 9:55 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Our first priority was "feature parity" with the Windows edition. Now that that's basically achieved, we've begun dedicating resources to optimization. Future releases will show speed improvements.

Sorry it's not where you want it yet!

Thanks for the update, I am very encouraged by it.

Posts 7
Big Rich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2010 10:00 PM

Richard:

I agree that Logos for Mac is slower than any other application on my laptop, and I would definitely like to see it faster.  However, I can't describe it as "unusable."  

I went from a mid-range PC laptop to a MacBook Pro, 2.4GHz, 4Gb RAM, 7200RPM HDD.  It is definitely a speed improvement.  The mid-range PC is unusable.  The Mac is very usable, and it sounds like we have comparable laptops, with the possible exception of the hard drive.  I would encourage you to get a 7200RPM drive (default from Apple is 5400RPM).  I can also post easy instructions for cloning and swapping your hard drive if you need that.  Logos hits the hard drive pretty heavily, so if you have a slower hard drive, you're going to feel the drag.  BTW, a 500GB 7200RPM WD Black Scorpio HDD is just $70 at Amazon.

There are times when I am using it and I just feel like turning my computer off and studying the old fashioned way and getting all of my books out because it would be quicker and a whole lot less frustrating because I don't have to fight the software.  I have a SSD so it is much faster than a 7200 RPM drive; im baffled.

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 31 2010 2:13 AM

Richard Millentree:

I am online with it right now, and I have searched for the word "David" in the OT in the ESV version of the Bible.  The search says it was done in 1.08 seconds, but after 40 seconds the column where the search results are listed is still frozen and I cannot interact with it.  When the screen finally unlocks and I try to scroll with the scroll bar I can scroll about a half of an inch and the search results have to repaint themselves on the screen...really!?!

That's interesting, I did the same action myself. I have two machines:

  • baby MacBook white model from 2008, 2.16 GHZ Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM & slow 2.5" HDD
  • MacPro around 2008, 2 x Xeon dual core processors, 6GB RAM, 10K 1TB HDD + brand new SSD drive (just for Logos)

I have around 600 resources in my library. My main index file is around 1GB in size, Bible index file 340MB.

When I do what you did — search for 'David' in OT in ESV, got 1,082 hits in 916 verses — Logos says about 3.4 seconds for MacBook, about 2.8 for Mac Pro (using verses view). However the actual time the spinning wheel was displayed (not beach ball) was 40.6 seconds for MacBook, 31.9 for Mac Pro. Until the spinning wheel went away I could not really interact with Logos, if I tried to scroll I would get the beach ball (which is the OS saying app is busy). During this time I could see on Mac Pro that all four cores were quite busy. However at the end of that time I had no difficulties scrolling.

Hard to know where hold up is - it could be that query finishes in 3.4/2.8 seconds and the rest of the time is taken by the user interface to 'draw' the screen; maybe the verse list is known from the index but then app has to get data from book resource file... hard to know. I (personally) think it is important to give developers some hard data so they know where to focus — the more data they have the better IMHO.

I do agree that Logos need to focus on performance (esp. as it seems hot topic), perhaps they should do a freeze on new features till the performance question is more settled. 

I also think (again, just me personally) that devs. like Tom Philpot, who is now the development lead, should not be having to spend a lot of time answering queries on the forum telling yet another person how to properly send in log files. Logos should get some young student and sit them on the forum doing 'front line' answering of queries, free up the developers to do coding.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 5557
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 31 2010 2:41 AM

Patrick S.:
I also think (again just me personal) that devs. like Tom Philpot, who is now the development lead, should not be having to spend a lot of time answering queries on the forum telling yet another person how to properly send in log files. Logos should get some young student and sit them on the forum doing 'front line' answering of queries, free up the developers to do coding.

 

I also think (again just me personal(ly)) that devs. like Tom Philpot  should have a word with the guy who wrote 'Logos Scribe' for error reporting and fix it to a button on the home screen so that a log file could be posted by any inexperienced user without much extra explanation.

And a Happy New Year to all my readers.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 31 2010 3:45 AM

On a 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo with 4 GB RAM and 1.5 TB hard drive 7200 RPM and ATI Radeon HD2600:

Launching Logos Bible Software 4.0b SR-2 (4.10.4.8574) to Home Page (as 2nd Logos user on computer):

With network connected: 28 seconds

With network disconnected: 17 to 18 seconds (initial launch had login screen - clicked Work Offline)

Search "All Bible Text" in "Old Testament" in "ESV":

Grid: 11 seconds (until list scrollable - noted list of references below results for jumping to result list section)

Verses (ESV + AV 1873): 75 seconds

Aligned: 37 seconds

Analysis: 39 seconds

Observation: when network connected, quit Logos 4 results in hung process for over a minute (as 2nd user on iMac).

Keep Smiling Smile 

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 31 2010 4:11 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Analysis: 39 seconds

On my poor little white MacBook doing Analysis view on word like 'David' (obviously gets a lot of hits) send CPU usage through the roof. This comes back to something I said in another post discussing performance — I don't do things like from the home screen Go box type a whole chapter of Bible. Logos has to do (naturally) so much work for Passage Guide and Exegetical Guide. I aways do something like one verse (Romans 1:1) then when I am in layout do specific PG & EG lookups.

Back to my study of Romans which L4M is doing so nicely Cool

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 31 2010 4:23 AM

Booted 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo iMac from external USB-2 drive 7200 RPM (Mac OS X 10.6.5 - same as internal drive):

Launching Logos Bible Software 4.2a Beta 3 (4.21.4.8572) (Update Channel: beta) to Home Page (only user)

With network connected: 35 seconds (improved to 18 seconds after many launches within half hour)

With network disconnected: 24 seconds (including Work Offline click)

Search "All Bible Text" in "Old Testament" in "ESV":

Grid: 7 seconds (until list scrollable - same reference list below results)

Verses (ESV + AV 1873): 19 seconds for spinning wheel to disappear (37 seconds to close search & home page re-appear)

Aligned: 16 seconds for spinning wheel to disappear (24 seconds to close search & home page re-appear)

Analysis: 36 seconds for spinning wheel to disappear (could close immediately & home page re-appear)

Appears Beta version already has some search speed improvements.  Wonder about Grid reference list being added to Verses, Aligned, and Analysis results - albeit Analysis bit more challenging since items can be grouped - suspect paging list could be based on grouped items.

Observation: with network connected, Beta quits faster than SR-2, but still had spinning beach ball for awhile.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 7
Big Rich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 31 2010 8:01 PM

Patrick S.:

Richard Millentree:

I am online with it right now, and I have searched for the word "David" in the OT in the ESV version of the Bible.  The search says it was done in 1.08 seconds, but after 40 seconds the column where the search results are listed is still frozen and I cannot interact with it.  When the screen finally unlocks and I try to scroll with the scroll bar I can scroll about a half of an inch and the search results have to repaint themselves on the screen...really!?!

That's interesting, I did the same action myself. I have two machines:

  • baby MacBook white model from 2008, 2.16 GHZ Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM & slow 2.5" HDD
  • MacPro around 2008, 2 x Xeon dual core processors, 6GB RAM, 10K 1TB HDD + brand new SSD drive (just for Logos)

I have around 600 resources in my library. My main index file is around 1GB in size, Bible index file 340MB.

When I do what you did — search for 'David' in OT in ESV, got 1,082 hits in 916 verses — Logos says about 3.4 seconds for MacBook, about 2.8 for Mac Pro (using verses view). However the actual time the spinning wheel was displayed (not beach ball) was 40.6 seconds for MacBook, 31.9 for Mac Pro. Until the spinning wheel went away I could not really interact with Logos, if I tried to scroll I would get the beach ball (which is the OS saying app is busy). During this time I could see on Mac Pro that all four cores were quite busy. However at the end of that time I had no difficulties scrolling.

Hard to know where hold up is - it could be that query finishes in 3.4/2.8 seconds and the rest of the time is taken by the user interface to 'draw' the screen; maybe the verse list is known from the index but then app has to get data from book resource file... hard to know. I (personally) think it is important to give developers some hard data so they know where to focus — the more data they have the better IMHO.

I do agree that Logos need to focus on performance (esp. as it seems hot topic), perhaps they should do a freeze on new features till the performance question is more settled. 

I also think (again, just me personally) that devs. like Tom Philpot, who is now the development lead, should not be having to spend a lot of time answering queries on the forum telling yet another person how to properly send in log files. Logos should get some young student and sit them on the forum doing 'front line' answering of queries, free up the developers to do coding.

I think what it boils down to (and I am confident Logos knows this) is the problem is in the software.  I am not saying it's bad software, not at all, in fact, It really is the best on the market, it just needs to be fine tuned, and I wil wait unti l it is (hopefully sooner than later). 

I am very versed in software development and computer hardware, I currently work for Apple and if your computer is pushing all four cores for this app, something has gone horribly wrong.

Well, I am looking forward to all of the good stuff Logos will do in 2011.

Happy New Year! 

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