Has anyone seen the EXOPC Slate?

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Posts 174
Derek Browning | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jan 2 2011 3:40 PM

I was searching for PC based iPad killers that could serve as a ereaders, but run a full (non-app) version of Logos 4.  In doing so, I ran across the EXOPC Slate through Microsoft.  Has anyone else ran across this?  If so what are you thoughts about running Logos 4 on it as a PC substitute for an iPad?

http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Ciara-VIBE-ExoPC/product/EC722AD1

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 3 2011 5:15 AM

[DISCLAIMER — I am a satisfied iPad owner]

On first glance looks cute, however there has got to be a reason why Microsoft has never yet (with all their billions & after 10 years or so) been able to successfully deliver a functional tablet device, and yet Apple, in one stroke, delivered a product which rewrote the rules, sold heaps, and which has everyone scrabbling to catch up.

This device runs Windows 7, no matter how much they prune it down it is still Windows 7 — a 'big' (I'll be generous and not say bloated) desktop operating system designed to be used with a keyboard and mouse. Going there and expecting to use it as a (finger) touch based platform will be an exercise in pain.

It has 2GB of RAM, to use it as a machine running full Logos 4 Win will be slow, and you will still have the issue of running a keyboard and mouse OS and application (Logos) designed for a large screen on a small screen where you will be pointing with a big fat finger (with respect to the screen that is not your finger size). How will you go pointing to things? You will be constantly pinching in and out to be able to get to small controls which are easy to click with a mouse — because that's what they were designed for.

See how much press, if any, this device has got in the general market. Don't think you'll find much.

One alternative suggestion for you — if you want to get access to your full Logos installation running on your powerful (I'll assume) desktop machine on an occasional basis then you could run some remote desktop application on a tablet which will allow you to see your PC's desktop (and Logos). For occasional use it could be workable. If you go that way I know a really great and successful tablet product... it's called an iPad — sorry couldn't resist!

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 3 2011 5:44 AM

Derek Browning:
 If so what are you thoughts about running Logos 4 on it as a PC substitute for an iPad?

It looks great.  It shines in all of Ipad's weaknesses.  I think it would be far superior to Ipad in every way!

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 1341
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 3 2011 5:59 AM

I agree with Patrick's assessment and I share his disclaimer also :)

I've used a Windows XP Tablet PC for several years.  Throughout those years I've folded up the screen in reading mode maybe 3% of the time.  I don't know about the new generation of Windows 7-based tablets, but although I loved my Fujitsu Lifebook, its heat, its noise, its fan, its weight, and its thickness just never made it a "curl-up" reading device for me.  I think I tried the on-screen keyboard the first day I got it and then just gave up and never tried typing with the virtual keyboard again.

I haven't played with the Tablet features in Windows 7.  If it's anything similar to XP Tablet, then you might need a stylus to make it work.  As Patrick and many others on the web have pointed out, Windows was never designed for finger-friendliness, and it will be hard to transform it to be touch-friendly unless and until there's a complete redesign (which I heard Microsoft maybe working on for Windows 8).

When I was shopping for a more portable device for my daily train commute, I was also first looking for a Windows-based "iPad-killer."  After looking at the options available, I decided to go for the iPad and have never regretted the decision.

Peter

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 3 2011 6:07 AM

Peter Li:
Windows was never designed for finger-friendliness,

I agree.  I was bringing balance to a rather lopsided conversation.  Of course there will be weaknesses in any product of this nature including Ipad.  Of course many are happy with Ipad, it is great at what it does, but it does have many shortcomings.  I wonder, for example, if a windows based slate picks up a virus, who will repair it?  The extra cost service agreement might be a good idea.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 3 2011 6:13 AM

Jerry M:

Derek Browning:
 If so what are you thoughts about running Logos 4 on it as a PC substitute for an iPad?

It looks great.  It shines in all of Ipad's weaknesses.  I think it would be far superior to Ipad in every way!

Wonder if iPad would be faster scrolling offline Logos resources ?

Looking forward to Logos application on iPad syncing notes and highlighting with desktop Logos => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/27896/207975.aspx#207975

With Intel Atom processor, anticipate same Logos 4 performance (S - L - O - W) as a netbook.

While reading review http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/27/exopc-slate-review/ noted battery life much shorter than iPad plus multi-touch interface is an improvement (still needs some tweaking).

Another review http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/zdnet-uk-first-take-10013312/exopc-slate-10021295/ noted Windows 7 media player and application launcher are finger friendly along with competitive price compared to first generation iPad.

Likewise wonder about iPad 2 later this year ?

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 3 2011 6:19 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Wonder if iPad would be faster scrolling offline Logos resources ?

Can the app or mechanism that the Ipad uses to download a single Logos book and read it, be bought and used in a netbook or other slate?

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 3 2011 6:25 AM

Jerry M:

Can the app or mechanism that the Ipad uses to download a single Logos book and read it, be bought and used in a netbook or other slate?

Sure!

You only need to 'wrap' the application in an iPad though Cool.

But don't worry — the way the iPad is going there soon won't be made any more netbooks, and as for slates — well a lot of people are talking but few making yet. They haven't had enough time yet to copy all of Apple's technology, give 'em a break!

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 3 2011 6:31 AM

Patrick S.:
You only need to 'wrap' the application in an iPad though Cool.

You win.  Apple products are the greatest ever.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 3 2011 6:36 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Wonder if iPad would be faster scrolling offline Logos resources ?

Works fine for me — I have a great many Logos books downloaded to iPad and read them offline using the iPad essentially as an eBook reader.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Another review http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/zdnet-uk-first-take-10013312/exopc-slate-10021295/ noted Windows 7 media player and application launcher are finger friendly along with competitive price compared to first generation iPad.

Ah yes... but notice these are specially made apps to run on this thing so they can toss in a couple of screenshots and say 'hey man we have a tablet computer as well'. When they have made specially re-written the whole OS user interface and apps — MS Office, every Windows application, Logos for Windows - 'Slate Edition' then come back and see me — I'll likely be singing in the heavenly choir by then!

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 3 2011 6:38 AM

Jerry M:

Patrick S.:
You only need to 'wrap' the application in an iPad though Cool.

You win.  Apple products are the greatest ever.

Ahhh — methinks you are just saying that and have not really fallen under the 'reality distortion field' yet. Crying

 

Jerry M:

Apple products are the greatest ever.

Funny... that's exactly what all the many Windows users I have moved to Macs say to me all the time. Stick out tongue

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 2718
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 4 2011 5:57 AM

Before making my comments let me say a few things for perspective.

1. I have been a Windows lover and never really understood all the criticism. I have had a Windows Tablet PC for three years (HP models) and have loved them and used them a lot in ministry and for personal use.

2. I have been an Apple critic for years. I could never understand what people saw in the hardware that would make it worth the extra premium one has to pay. An inexpensive Mac is the same price as a high end PC.

3. I loved my iPod (click wheel kind with the color screen saw no reason why I would ever want a touch screen device).

4. I then purchased an iPod Touch saying, "I'll try it out and if I don't like it can return it to the WalMart I got it at" since my ipod died. And that did it. I was hooked on iOS.

5. I was given a MacBook Air as a gift and the first weak I fought with the it frustrated by the fact that it was not Windows, my old friend for 15 years, until I finally got used to it. Some things still frustrate me (why on earth can't I resize a window from any edge I want; why must I use the lower right corner only UGHH!!)

I say all of that to say, that since I have used a Windows Tablet PC and loved it and now have an iPad, I would never ever want to use a Windows Tablet for touch Bible study or anything else again. The iPad is head and shoulders above a Tablet PC running full blown Logos 4 in touch mode. As a notebook my convertible HP tablet is great. A little hot at times, but as a notebook who cares. The iPad is so much easier to use. I would never have used my Tablet to preach from but I use my iPad every sermon. Can't imagine going back.

Any weakness of using Logos on the iPad is not the fault of the iPad but the nature of the app. That said, the app is very good. I like it and use it a lot.

Posts 174
Derek Browning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 4 2011 6:20 AM

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone.  I must confess, I'm a PC, meaning with no evidence I'm presupposing that I'd appreciate a PC based system over an Apple based system.

Now that I'm exposed, my concerns about using an iPad come purely from ignorance, can anyone confirm if they are legit?

1. Does the iPad app allow for multiple books open at once? Side by side? (IE: I'd like the tablet to replace the Study Bible I take to church, and would love for it to have linked study bibles, commentaries, dictionaries (lexicons & encyclopedias)

2. Does the iPad app allow for an information bar to be open alongside of readings? (IE: while reading many of the scholarly publications, I find myself tripped up by their use of large words, and appreciate the ability to click on a word and see a definition and more information pop up in the info bar).

3. Does the iPad allow for quick scripture search? (I'm infamous for not knowing the landing addresses of different "memory verses", and appreciate the ability to type a few words of a verse into a search bar and find the scripture reference quickly.)

In short I love the functionality of Logos4, and would love that same functionality in an iPad app.  I appreciate the problem (if it even exists) is not with the iPad, but with the app.  So if I have limited funds and specific desires, am I better off going with a PC based slate that can run full Logos4 or a PC tablet...etc.

Thoughts on that?

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 4 2011 7:09 AM

Derek Browning:

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone.  I must confess, I'm a PC, meaning with no evidence I'm presupposing that I'd appreciate a PC based system over an Apple based system.

Now that I'm exposed, my concerns about using an iPad come purely from ignorance, can anyone confirm if they are legit?

1. Does the iPad app allow for multiple books open at once? Side by side? (IE: I'd like the tablet to replace the Study Bible I take to church, and would love for it to have linked study bibles, commentaries, dictionaries (lexicons & encyclopedias)

2. Does the iPad app allow for an information bar to be open alongside of readings? (IE: while reading many of the scholarly publications, I find myself tripped up by their use of large words, and appreciate the ability to click on a word and see a definition and more information pop up in the info bar).

3. Does the iPad allow for quick scripture search? (I'm infamous for not knowing the landing addresses of different "memory verses", and appreciate the ability to type a few words of a verse into a search bar and find the scripture reference quickly.)

In short I love the functionality of Logos4, and would love that same functionality in an iPad app.  I appreciate the problem (if it even exists) is not with the iPad, but with the app.  So if I have limited funds and specific desires, am I better off going with a PC based slate that can run full Logos4 or a PC tablet...etc.

Thoughts on that?

Hi PC Big Smile

Happy to fill in the details.

  1. Multiple books open at once — no, essentially each resource/task takes up full screen, we are talking about a smaller screen remember, it's really not practical. But you can have multiple things 'open' at once and switch between them (Library, Search, Read, Passage Guide, Bible Word Study, Text Comparison) and link off to other resources, for example 'touch and hold' a word in a resource and you get option to do Bible Word Study on it.
  2. Yes, as popups with then links to go to the reference source
  3. Yes — however N.B. only when connected to the Internet, offline searching is NOT possible. When you think about it this is not unusual because otherwise you would have to have heavy duty indexes on the iPad — back to situation of it being a mini-computer which it's not. You can do both 'Basic Search' (books) and 'Bible Search' and (this part is nice) you can restrict to usual things like entire library, top bibles AND your pre-defined Collection sets.

So you will go quite a bit of the way there (and have a lot more functionality than a paper study Bible), just make sure you have fast Internet where you are doing Bible studies and you're good to go. Remember also I mentioned you can download full books to the iPad — so they can be read offline/faster.

Re: running any Windows slate and full copy of Logos, well see my previous posts. In that case if you want full Logos I would get yourself a decent powered and small sized laptop (not a netbook, they are gutless) and pretend it's a tablet.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 236
Michael March | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 4 2011 8:07 AM

Does the ipad allow you to locally store Logos 4 books so as to be able to read them without internet access?

Windows PC - Android Phone - Surface Pro 4

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 4 2011 8:20 AM

Absolutement — I have downloaded stacks. The little plane symbol shows books downloaded for offline reading, and if you download your leading Bible you can click on verse links in books to open (offline) your favourite Bible.

When reading you have a Kindle/iBooks like full page interface with Table of Contents. etc. (see second screenshot).

It is kinda nice, better than reading stale magazines at the doctors!

 

 

Oooohhh — I can sense a wavering from the Apple detractors Stick out tongue

 

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 5249
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 4 2011 8:46 AM

FYI Logos has stated that upcoming releases of the iOS (probably android too) program will have split screen function. I also believe they take about basic searching offline too. I know now with 1.5 even though there seems to be little change footnotes in books work offline now.

If you need the full power of Logos a laptop slate would likely be best if reading and some general study are your primary desire the iOS (and likely the forthcoming Android) app should be find. Clicking on a word now allows you to do a word study or search, which the first thing it did for me is open up webster dictionary at the top. It's not a pop up thing but that may be coming.

 

-Dan

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 4 2011 5:47 PM

Personally looking forward to Logos iPad application improvements: Split Screen (already in Beta) plus Notes and Highlighting.  Already Thankful for Logos offline fast switching between Bible versions in library, keeping reference location - easy to quickly read verse(s) in many versions plus favorite commentary (or two) while listening to sermon.  While offline, can click blue text for pop-up: ESV has letters with cross references - tap letter - reference list appears - tap verse reference, text pops-up along plus option to jump to reference (tap to jump).

Likewise looking forward to next generation iPad - pictures of cases for next iPad have been removed - did show hole for camera on back side.  Reading rumors about production beginning.  Apple still offering limited time discount for refurbished Wi-Fi iPad's => http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/ipad (32 GB for $ 499 - discounted $100)

Thankful iPad has option to run many applications including e-readers (Free Books, iBook, Kindle, Nook, etc) and other Bible Study apps - while lacking Logos resources already have split screen bible display (with many languages, including accented greek) and search options: local and online (search limited to exact words/phrases - lacks Logos search capabilities).

Back to PC tablet option, reading CES preview article => http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9203201/Dell_Asus_Motorola_offer_previews_of_tablets noted Asustek 12" slate with Intel Core i5 running Windows 7 (should have decent Logos 4 performance) along with Dell's Inspiron Duo (screen flips horizontally) with Atom Dual Core and Windows 7.  Anticipating many more Android and Windows 7 tablets to be announced and demonstrated over next few days.

Microsoft has offered tablet versions since Nov 2002 (XP Table Edition) - primarily used a stylus (instead of mouse).  Apple's iPad primarily uses fingers - only when typing using keyboard is a cursor displayed (paradigm shift).  

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1
Terry Stump | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 30 2011 11:33 PM

has anyone tried the asus slate 121 with L4 on it?

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