Some of you Mac owners help me out

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Posts 401
Sam West | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jan 7 2011 4:35 AM

why do some flip out over Mac Book Pro. are the  components  the same as everyone else or or they special made for mac. is durability the reason? I mean i could buy a Mac about as easy as a ASUS G73 but I would be getting less machine plus spend several hundred more dollars for a mac. Not trying to be cute or objective but would really like to know. i have done a lot of research on laptops lately and come up with this ASUS G73JW-XTI. Is Asus a good company?

thanks

Posts 117
Kenny Larsen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 5:02 AM

Mac's aren't cheap from a purely hardware perspective. You have always been able to get cheaper equivalents in the PC range. Most apple components are good quailty ones, but are simply bought from usual supplier so are nothing special. What you get with a mac is an OS that is designed to run on your specific hardware and therefore tends to be more stable and reliable, as well as easier to debug when things do go wrong.

I love my macbook (newest model white base spec one) it runs Logos and everything else fine. However, you need to analyse your needs etc. to decide what's right for you. Hardware specs aren't the be all and end all as the system has to efficiently interact with them.

I've never had a serious issue with Asus stuff, but have only bought bottom of the range stuff.

 

Kenny

Posts 103
Jason | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 9:10 AM

The underlying hardware might be similar, but the software user experience is what makes it worthwhile for me. Also, because Apple is both the hardware and software provider, upgrades and updates are much more painless, in my opinion. I think they last slightly longer as well.

Yes, they are more expensive (I think they definitely overcharge), so you'd have to weigh your options to see if the user experience plus slightly longer life is worth it for you. For me it has been, but for others, Windows is a much better fit. 

the ancient art of shalom: thots on sustainable spirituality in san francisco - http://me.jasonkuo.com/thots

Posts 1875
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 9:25 AM

Sam

Since I switched to a Mac in October 2009 (after 16 years with Windows PCs), I have really enjoyed the experience. I don't have any of the network/printer/software problems that I had in Windows (esp. Vista!). It just works. It's faster, more stable – it just works!

Mind you, I only have the iMac desktop, so I can't comment on laptops. But the Mac OS, including the painless upgrades I've had, works as well as it did the day it came out of the box!

IMHO Mac rocks! Big Smile

Every blessing

Alan

iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8

MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8

iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1

iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 10:03 AM

Sam West:

why do some flip out over Mac Book Pro. are the  components  the same as everyone else or or they special made for mac. is durability the reason? I mean i could buy a Mac about as easy as a ASUS G73 but I would be getting less machine plus spend several hundred more dollars for a mac. Not trying to be cute or objective but would really like to know. i have done a lot of research on laptops lately and come up with this ASUS G73JW-XTI. Is Asus a good company?

thanks

 

Quality is a major question, I will not say apple has never made a lemon, or that they are indestructible, but they are far more durable. Also the components are higher quality in general. Before purchasing my new macbook pro this spring, I went to Dell and set up a machine with the same as the macbook pro, it ended up being priced $280 higher than the MacBook Pro. I seriously wanted to consider a Windows machine and go the way of the hackintosh (running mac OS on a non apple machine).  Having both my bother in law and sister in law just buying new machines (both HP if memory serves) they  are far bulkier than my machine heavier and seem flimsy compared to mine. My 6 year Powerbook was still working perfectly when i got this, my sister in law had had 2 or 3 computers in that time frame. Now some people may want to have to replace a computer because it dies, I would happily still be using my powerbook had i not wanted to use Logos 4. I had no issues using any program at all (I am not a big game player). I would rather pay a little more money and have a computer i know i can depend on. I know of one friend who has a sony viao (a manufacturer i had always respected) it;s less than a year and it is already dying (unfortunately he lost his receipt so they would do nothing). I have little doubt my macbook pro will last me a good 4-5 years. I will enjoy using it and will likely have little problem finding a home for it when I want to move on. You have to purchase what will work best for you, for me it is macintosh.

-dan

 

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 10:24 AM

Sam West:

why do some flip out over Mac Book Pro. are the  components  the same as everyone else or...

Personally I think this phrase best explains it — Macs generally are 'bigger than the sum of their parts'.

Macs are pretty well the only personal computer manufactured as an entity, and in this way they are diametrically opposed to the Windows PC experience. In the Windows world you have a bunch of manufacturers operating at razor thin margins (because they know there is always someone else coming up behind willing to stab them in the back with cutthroat pricing) pushing out an array of boxes that then get Windows slapped on them. Someone might say 'yeah hey that's great, that's competition'. Well yes and no in terms of being best for you the consumer. Makes me think of that quote from the movie Armageddon (which they stole from John Glenn!)

Rockhound: You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it? 

Sometimes using a Windows machine (for me it's at work) one gets that uneasy feeling also — is it going to crash and burn??

Also it is about, at the end of the day, the user experience. I have a four+ year old Mac which works and feels snapper than a brand new Windows machine (high end i5 processor, 4GB RAM etc.) so my user experience is more satisfying.

That's the reason why the majority of people, once they give Macs a go and start using them fully don't look back.

 

p.s. and the MacBook Pro is a thing of beauty — go and try one Smile

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 3:36 PM

I was going to just post a link to the answer I gave another poster with pretty much the same question -- but when I looked it up I found that that 'other poster' was, in fact, you... You got plenty of answers last time, including mine at the end: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/27452.aspx. So why ask the same question again? 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 3:52 PM

Dan Francis:
unfortunately he lost his receipt so they would do nothing

That would not be a problem with a Mac. I recommend that everyone always purchase Apple Care which extends the warranty to 3 years. If you can make it to an Apple Store, you don't need a receipt because the Apple Care is already registered by the machine's serial number. Our company and family have owned more than a dozen Macs and have never had a problem getting adequate service.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 7 2011 8:19 PM

Recommend visiting an Apple Store => http://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/

Geeked Apple wants Smiling customers Big Smile - retail store employees rated on quality time with customers (not sales commission); Apple Retail Stores in Top 5 Sales $ per square foot in US.  Also nice to receive email receipt (no need for cash register - employees carry devices on belt for credit card processing).

If have a problem with Mac, suggest making a free appointment with a Mac Genius => http://www.apple.com/retail/geniusbar/  If hardware repair needed, Mac Genius will discuss options with you and get your approval (and payment) before doing repair - depends on circumstances, special offer may be made - Geeked Apple wants Smiling customers Big Smile

Mac Genius have hardware diagnostic software and know Apple's extended warranties.

Example: bought an iMac at an Apple Store - did not purchase AppleCare - almost 3 years later, turn on iMac, screen black - made appointment with Mac Genius - took iMac to Apple Store - Mac Genius opened iMac, saw power supply hardware issue - replaced power supply for Free since Apple had extended power supply warranty for that iMac model to 3 years due to manufacturing defects.

Used Mac's retain value for several years - PowerMax has Trade-In program => http://www.powermax.com/everything_else/trade_in/  and offers used Mac's for purchase => http://www.powermax.com/preowned_macs with 90 day warranty.

Apple offers refurbished Mac's (current and previous generation models) => http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac with same 1 year warranty as new along with 14 day return option - only box marked refurbished - packed like new.

Only one Mac model has been refreshed since July last year => http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

Apple licenses Mac OS X for Apple hardware - End User License Agreement (EULA) held up in Court - Hackintosh is illegal use of Mac OS X (on non-Apple hardware).

Mac Sales has step by step guide for transferring applications and user files (including Logos 4 Mac) from one Mac hard drive to another => http://eshop.macsales.com/articles/how-to-transfer-your-data-from-your-old-drive-to-a-new-drive (last year used same steps to upgrade 2006 Mac Book Pro hard drive from 5400 RPM to 7200 RPM - noticeably faster).

Logos has a Mac forum => http://community.logos.com/forums/75.aspx

Geeked Apple wants Smiling customers Big Smile

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 401
Sam West | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2011 4:57 AM

fgh:

I was going to just post a link to the answer I gave another poster with pretty much the same question -- but when I looked it up I found that that 'other poster' was, in fact, you... You got plenty of answers last time, including mine at the end: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/27452.aspx. So why ask the same question again? 

 Because i still haven't made up my mind. I love the looks of Mac but $700 more for a 17inch Mac compared to to a pc is a lot of money. Regardless I would buy a Mac tomorrow if I knew the quality warranted it. I have owned several Laptops in past and would like to get the very best I can get this time around. I don't know whether you know or understand the term research or not but that’s exactly what I am trying to do. I would really like to own a Mac but don't want to pay a ridiculous  price and have it to wind up being a piece of junk after 2 years of use like some of the other machines i have owned. I am still torn between a Mac and a pc and you might see another post similar to this on this forum before I make up my mind and if the good folks on this forum choose to respond then surely it would be all right with you.  

(Disclaimer: I have never owned a laptop, just desktops.) then how can you advise someone wanting laptop information? 

 

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2011 6:11 AM

Sam West:

and have it to wind up being a piece of junk after 2 years of use like some of the other machines i have owned.

Not likely with a Mac machine — the MacBook Pros are well made and 'chalk and cheese' compared to the usual notebooks made for running Windows.

Does it have to be a 17" MacBook? Do you need that large screen size (machine) always moving around? What I mean is for less money you could get a 15" MacBook Pro with an i7 faster processor, put in a 7200 drive instead of 5400 and even get the screen upgrade to take it to 1680 x 1050 pixels then at your main location get a large external display.

The best thing really to do is find an Apple store (or helpful friend who has one) and have a good look at the two machines 15" and 17". Then do some reading up on reviews talking about quality of the units, you'll find they consistently rank highest for quality and customer satisfaction. Remember, Apple doesn't have, or need, the 'lowest bidder' build mentality.

Good luck!

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2011 6:22 AM

Reading rumors about MacBook Pro model refreshes later this  year => http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#MacBook_Pro

Review of 2010 MacBook Pro i5 and i7 models => http://www.anandtech.com/show/3659/apples-15inch-core-i5-macbook-pro-the-one-to-get/3 appears performance difference matches CPU speed difference (laptop i7 about 10 % to 15 % faster than i5).

If buying 17" MacBook Pro this weekend, would consider couple current generation refurbished models:

$ 1,879 for 2.53 GHz i5 with glossy screen => http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC024LL/A

$ 2,079 for 2.66 GHz i7 with anti-glare screen => http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC665LL/A  (costs 10 % more, similar to performance improvement)

Noted configure to order and refurbished MacBook Pro's have 5400 RPM drives.  For refurbished, Apple has option of installing bigger and/or faster hard drive.

Recommend hard drive upgrade: http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-MacBook-Pro-17-Inch-Unibody-Hard-Drive-Replacement/3401/1 has step by step guide.

Mac Sales has laptop DIY (Do It Yourself) upgrade kits => http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-drives/2.5-Notebook/SATA/DIY/ (convert internal drive to portable external USB) - recommend 7200 RPM or faster drive, possibly Solid State Disk (SSD):

$ 104.99 for 640 GB 7200 RPM => http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Samsung/YHM640JJ/  (could use 500 GB for Time Machine backup)

$ 159.00 for  60 GB SSD => http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/YSSDMP060/

$ 259.99 for 120 GB SSD => http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/YSSDMP120/  

$ 527.99 for 240 GB SSD => http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/Y3SSDMP240/

SSD Option: install Mac OS X and Logos 4 on internal SSD, use 500 GB portable drive for other documents.

By the way, once Apple ships newer Mac models, refurbished prices for previous generation go down (e.g. in mid 2010, watched $ 1,899 model drop to $ 1,699).

Recommend visiting an Apple Store to decide if glossy or anti-glare screen better.  While in store, may want to look at 27" iMac desktop (quad core i7 noticeably faster than i5) plus screen much larger than 17" MacBook Pro.  Also could look at an iPad for portability; clamcase looks interesting => http://clamcase.com/ ; likewise reading rumors about iPad 2 production starting this month.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 401
Sam West | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2011 7:06 AM

Patrick S.:
Does it have to be a 17" MacBook? Do you need that large screen size (machine) always moving around? What I mean is for less money you could get a 15" MacBook Pro with an i7 faster processor, put in a 7200 drive instead of 5400 and even get the screen upgrade to take it to 1680 x 1050 pixels then at your main location get a large external display.

 

Patrick thanks for the reply.

Referring to the post above the gentlemen ripped me for re-posting the same thing. We were then discussing a 15inch Mac and someone said in another post that a 17inch is better suited to running L4. I guess you could me confused. I love Mac especially the screen and the OS but those17 inchers are high aren’t they?

 

Posts 692
Otto S. Carroll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2011 7:37 AM

Which screen is best suited to run L4 is really in the eyes of the beholder. I personally prefer the 17" (waited to buy a MBP until the 17" unibody was released), but I can't say that I wouldn't have been just as happy running L4 on a 15".

__________

15" rMBP 2.6 GHz i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1.0 TB Flash Drive | OS X 10.12.3 | Logos 7.0 (7.3.0.0062)

Posts 33
Jeff Causey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2011 9:19 AM

Sam,

I think I'm in a similar position as you.  I've been considering buying a MBP mainly for the form factor, but I've been struggling with the additional cost of the hardware.  Reading all these posts about the lengths Apple goes to regarding repairs and warranty coverage makes me wonder whether the quality is all it seems to be.  Especially in light of the experience I've had with my iPhone.  The other thing seems to be that for the extra cost of a MBP, I could buy cheaper hardware and still be way ahead financially even if I have to make a few repairs.

Good luck with your decision.

Posts 117
Kenny Larsen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2011 9:58 AM

With regard to screen size I manage perfectly adequately on a 13inch. Bear in mind they are widescreen, which I find helps with L4 asI can easily manage two columns in layout and read easily. It depends how you use L4 I think. I find no benefit with a 17inch standard screen, although it is older and not great resolution. It's a personal preference, if you can afford it don't drop to 13inch, but I think 15 would be fine. 

Kenny

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2011 11:53 AM

Sam West:

Patrick S.:
Does it have to be a 17" MacBook? Do you need that large screen size (machine) always moving around? What I mean is for less money you could get a 15" MacBook Pro with an i7 faster processor, put in a 7200 drive instead of 5400 and even get the screen upgrade to take it to 1680 x 1050 pixels then at your main location get a large external display.

Patrick thanks for the reply.

Referring to the post above the gentlemen ripped me for re-posting the same thing. We were then discussing a 15inch Mac and someone said in another post that a 17inch is better suited to running L4. I guess you could me confused. I love Mac especially the screen and the OS but those17 inchers are high aren’t they?

Hi again. With running Logos I see three factors:

  1. CPU and general 'grunt' of the system — important for processing complex queries etc. In this case the higher the processor you can get the better. The 15" can go to i7 processor — so can 17", but you don't have to go to 17" to get an i7 processor.
  2. HDD performance — if your pocket can stand it then you can go to SSD drive in either 15" or 17", but you'll pay for it. However in either the 15" or 17" you can upgrade the HDD from 5400 to 7200 to get noticeably better performance for just $50.
  3. Display size — to see as much as possible. Again you are not forced to go to 17" here because for $100 more on the 15" you can change to 1680 x 1050 display.

In all cases you're not forced to go to 17" MacBook Pro.

Re: the quality and service, I don't think Apple provides good service because the machines are substandard (they aren't, they are the 'gold standard' in notebooks) but because they want to look after people who make investment in the product. Again read the reviews and see what the balance of them say.

And again — hey go and have a look at one, pick it up, turn it over and feel the quality. The 'proof's in the pudding' — if you know that saying!

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 228
Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2011 12:51 PM

Sam,

I did quite a lot of research before moving to AMc over 2 years ago. I provide IT support on my job and have been supporting windows for over a decade. One of the main reason I switched is I was so fed up with all the issues with Windows. When I came home I don't want to be doing tech support for my family. With the Mac it's very simple. When I gave my wife her first MacBook she asked me to set it up. I told her to just turn it one. The only thing I had to do was to tell her was the WPE key for the wifi. While doing my research I spec'd out several Mac vs Dell's and many of the Dell's came out to around $200 more once you tried to get the same quality monitor. Even if you find a windows computer at a lower cost with the same spec's you still have to consider what we in the IT industry refer to as Total Cost of Ownership. The Mac comes with really good software already installed. I'm an avid photographer and I use iPhoto quite extensively. I know a lot of people who use Photosop but I haven't needed to. iPhoto does everything I need. It also integrates with the other software. I take pictures from iPhoto. send them to iDvd and create slideshow with my music from iTunes (or Garage band if I choose), then create menus for the various slide shows so when you put the DVD in the player it comes up with a menu and the various slide shows. I created a memorial DVD when my Grandfather passed away. We had pictures from the early 20's through his life with all my family in them. Now my Aunt's and Uncles can put it in there DVD when ever they want and see all those memories of my Grandparents. Yes you can do this in windows to and there is 3rd party software you can use but iLife on a Mac integrates all these apps so that the stuff you do in one you is already accessible in the other without have to figure out what folder you put it in. it took me about 2 hours to create that DVD.

I've started using my MacBook Pro at the office. Many of the productivity apps I use are so much easier than windows counterparts and they export to formats that the windows software uses. many of the apps I use integrate seamlessly with the other apps like mail, iCal, Address book. They have a really good personal Database solution for Mac called Bento. You don't have to understand databases, it's all through a GUI and is very good for organizing files, data, ect.

I have around 30 Tech guys that work for me and over half of them have switched to Mac's. We have to support windows so we use VMWare Fusion to run windows in a Virtual Machine. We are trying to get our company to purchase MacBook Pro's when the upgrade our current laptops.

Oh yes, one last note. Most of the software I purchase is a fraction of what it cost for comparable widows software. iWork can be purchased through the Mac app store for about $60 where even the Student version of Office for Mac 2011 is over $100

I truly believe when you factor in the total cost of ownership (software, upgrades) the Mac is a much better deal. I have had my 17in MacBook Pro for almost 2years now and it's still running like a champ. When the new ones come out I would like to upgrade to get the latest but I can't justify it. this one is still running way to good and so I don't need a new one (just want it). The Mac is so easy to use and yes "it just works". I have had it lock up a few times but now near what a windows box does, haven't had any issue with drivers or trying to find the right one and when I upgrade software it's smooth. With Time Machine I don't have top worry. When I got my wife her new MacBook Pro she just plugged in the hard drive with her Time machine backup and all her programs and seeting were transferred to her new Mac, she didn't have to do anything else. It was just like she was still on her old computer.

Stephen

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2011 4:27 PM

Jeff Causey:
Reading all these posts about the lengths Apple goes to regarding repairs and warranty coverage makes me wonder whether the quality is all it seems to be.

The quality of Mac hardware is top notch, but any product will have occasionally failures. Considering the cost of a new motherboard or power supply, Apple Care is cheap insurance. Between our business and homes, my family owns more than a dozen macs. The oldest is about 8 years old and is finally looking like it needs replacement. My personal machine is 4+ years old and has never visited the Apple Store. Our work place is very dirty as we cut and grind metal for a living. Of the 8 Macs that have been in that environment, 3 have been in for repair. Those 3 are all over 5 years old and still operating.

BTW: My 4+ year old Mac Pro (desktop model) runs L4 Mac and Windows very well.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 8 2011 11:34 PM

New to Mac OS X ? included in Logos 4 Mac Overview mini-faq => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Mac#Mini_FAQ

PC Advisor in UK has 8 reasons why a Mac is better than a PC => http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=115151 and Can Mac OS overtake Windows ?  http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=8863

Concur with PC Advisor - Apple not perfect.  As a consumer, Apple is a quality brand that offers good value for money.

Another Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) observation: downloading and applying security patches.  Windows tends to have more programs from various vendors that need patching along with Microsoft monthly patch sets.  Apple has fewer software updates (and standard hardware configurations to test for compatibility).

Personally like 27" iMac screen: 2,560 pixels horizontally x 1,440 pixels vertically, lots of desktop space for many Logos 4 panels.  Wiki page has an example => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Mac  When price comparing with PC's from several manufacturer's could not beat Apple's price for BIG screen (with LED back lighting) with computer.  However, 27" iMac lacks portability (bit heavy to pick up and move).

Appropriate Mac model and screen size for Logos depends on individual library user.

Some Apple disadvantages - cannot play blu-ray movies (can download high definition movies via iTunes) - limited hardware choices due to significantly fewer models.  Apple still using original design (early 1980's) for resizing a window - drag lower right corner.

Do recognize computer landscape changing - "most exciting CES" => http://www.asymco.com/2011/01/06/this-is-the-most-exciting-ces-ever/ (couple monopoly changes - exclusivity over).

Stephen Weasler:
The only thing I had to do was to tell her was the WPE key for the wifi

If WPE should be WEP, highly recommend changing WiFi configuration to WPA2 - many laptops have enough processing power to break WEP encryption in real time (WEP slightly better than not using encryption).

Keep Smiling Smile

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