Discovering How a Hebrew Lemma is Translated in the LXX

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This post has 13 Replies | 1 Follower

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Bill Fiess | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jan 13 2011 3:06 PM

Probably many of you are aware of this feature - but I was amazed when I discoverd it by "accident". This only works in the Logos LXX - but  In the Logos LXX there is an reverse interlinear which pairs each Greek word with its Hebrew counterpart. [That is amazing in itself!] So if you right click on a Greek word in the Logos LXX it will give you the option to search with the Hebrew lemma or the Greek lemma. If you choose the Hebrew lemma and then select SEARCH THIS RESOURCE it will search the LXX for that lemma. Then you can choose ANALYSIS and break down the results even  further. By dragging up the column header entitled LEMMA (GREEK) it will show all of the Greek lemmas that translated that Hebrew lemma. Of course, it also works in reverse [that is, I can choose a Greek lemma and search the LXX for the Hebrew words that are translated by it]. Pretty amazing!

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Locksmythe | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 5:48 PM

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the "accidental" discovery. Logos 4 is truly awesome!

George Haven

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Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 8:01 PM

Bill Fiess:

Probably many of you are aware of this feature - but I was amazed when I discoverd it by "accident". This only works in the Logos LXX - but  In the Logos LXX there is an reverse interlinear which pairs each Greek word with its Hebrew counterpart. [That is amazing in itself!] So if you right click on a Greek word in the Logos LXX it will give you the option to search with the Hebrew lemma or the Greek lemma. If you choose the Hebrew lemma and then select SEARCH THIS RESOURCE it will search the LXX for that lemma. Then you can choose ANALYSIS and break down the results even  further. By dragging up the column header entitled LEMMA (GREEK) it will show all of the Greek lemmas that translated that Hebrew lemma. Of course, it also works in reverse [that is, I can choose a Greek lemma and search the LXX for the Hebrew words that are translated by it]. Pretty amazing!

Is this tip worth adding to wiki.logos.com ?

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 13 2011 8:50 PM

Allen Browne:
Is this tip worth adding to wiki.logos.com ?

Tips from the Forum can be added by anybody.

Dave
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 14 2011 1:19 AM

Forum thread has Bible Word Study (BWS) screen shot with Hebrew and Greek (with pop-up BWS ring) => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/23527/178052.aspx#178052

Keep Smiling Smile

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Bill Fiess | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 14 2011 4:32 AM

How is that done, Dave?

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 14 2011 4:41 AM

Basically you edit the page (click the Edit tab). The basics of formatting are linked from this page, but you can copy and paste a similar entry and make appropriate changes. You can click Preview to see if it looks OK before doing a Save.

Dave
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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 14 2011 4:42 AM

Bill Fiess:

How is that done, Dave?

Here's some pictures to supplement Dave's answer above (be beat me to the answer so this is an Edit)

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Bill Fiess | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 14 2011 4:47 AM

Thanks. Your method is perhaps simpler and more productive than mine. Awesome!

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Bill Fiess | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 14 2011 7:12 AM

This basic approach also works with any English translation with a reverse interlinear. You can search the entire resource [Old and New Testaments] for a given English word  [say "grace"] and then note both the Hebrew and Greek lemmas used to translate that word [by pulling up the column headings under ANALYSIS].

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steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 14 2011 7:59 AM

Bill Fiess:
Your method is perhaps simpler and more productive than mine. Awesome!

Bill,

i have added standard wiki link map box to your page: Discovering How...

Also put a link to your page in the TOCs
         Table of Contents (Guides)
         Visual Table of Contents (more Guides)

EDIT: if you make any changes to the Title of your page, then the links will be broken. But if you want to make other changes inside your page, they will not effect the links in the TOCs.

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Bill Fiess | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 14 2011 8:11 AM

Thanks, Steve.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 28 2011 12:11 PM

Bill Fiess:
Discovering How a Hebrew Lemma is Translated in the LXX

This is very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing! The Hebrew lemma that shows up is not necessarily the word that the Greek LXX was translated from. What shows up is simply the Hebrew word that happens to be in the same place in the Hebrew Bible  -- whether that word means the same thing or not!

We don't know what manuscripts the translators of the LXX used. If the Greek word in the LXX happens to mean exactly the same thing as the Hebrew word in the MT, well, then in all likelihood that was the word the translators saw. But that is not always the case. Look at the classic example from Ps 22:17:

This is what the Greek means: 

This is what the Hebrew means:

 

So if you right-click on ὤρυξαν (they dug a trench), and choose to search for the Hebrew lemma, you will actually be searching for other instances of ֝אֲרִ֗י (lion) instead! Obviously the translators weren't so stupid as to translate like that; they simply used another, older, manuscript than the one that's been preserved in the MT. 

So, if your Greek and your Hebrew isn't good enough to immediately see when words don't mean the same, and you necessarily want to do this, keep Tov open and linked as well, where it's easy to spot where the manuscripts differ:

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Bill Fiess | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 28 2011 12:40 PM

Thanks, fgh. You caution is well taken. But nonetheless I feel that there is probably some real benefit in using the Logos LXX to search for many Hebrew lemmas. For example, if one searches this resource for משׁל proverb  and clicks on ANALYSIS he can see the predominence of this word being translated by παραβολή. Of course, we would need to allow for the fact that the Logos translators might sometimes have alligned the Greek and Hebrew incorrectly.

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