Differences in Greek Moods: Subjunctive and Imperative

Page 1 of 1 (19 items)
This post has 18 Replies | 0 Followers

Posts 218
Scott Burke | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jan 28 2011 6:14 AM

I know that both subjunctive and imperative moods deal with potential action but what is the difference between the two?  Also, can you point to an example of each mood in the NT.  Thank you and Lord bless!

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 6:52 AM

Scott Burke:

I know that both subjunctive and imperative moods deal with potential action but what is the difference between the two?  Also, can you point to an example of each mood in the NT.  Thank you and Lord bless!

This is what is affectionately known as a "can of worms."  But it's not as bad as asking about the Aorist or passive/deponent components of verbs.   Smile

Mood or mode is essentially answering, "How real is the action"  The subjunctive is describing an action that is objectively possible while the Imperative is urging something to be accomplished.

 Getting examples in the NT is easy with Logos.  Just do a Morphology search on: *@V??S???? for Subjunctive and *@V??M???? for Imperative.

I ran this search  @V??S???? NEAR @V??M???? | Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, 27th Edition and found Matthew 2:8  which has two of each.

ἐξετάσατε (search) and ἀπαγγείλατέ (bring word) are imperative's that mandate to the magi what they must/should do.

εὕρητε ([when] you have found) and  προσκυνήσω ((Idea may worship) are both subjunctive and indicate action that is actually possible.  It is actually possible that they will find the child and it is actually possible that Herod would worship the child (though it was a lie).  

 

 

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:00 AM

Thomas Black:
I ran this search  @V??S???? NEAR @V??M???? | Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, 27th Edition and found Matthew 2:8  which has two of each.

unfortunately this link will not set which resources that are to be searched (bug in L4 which has been reported many times here and here and other places).

So Scott you will need to change the resource being searched manually.

QLinks, Bibl2, LLR, Macros
Dell Insp 17-5748, i5, 1.7 GHz, 8G RAM, win 8.1

Posts 13343
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:02 AM

This is where the Pocket Dictionary for the Study of New Testament Greek comes in handy.

Subjunctive: The mood that presents the verbal action as being possible or probable (search).

Imperative: The mood that normally expresses a command or some similar declaration of volition. Mood expresses the character of a verb as far as its actuality or potentiality; in the imperative mood, the one giving the command speaks to something that is in the realm of the possible and makes it known that he or she wants this to be actualized (search).

To find such moods, just do the morph searches linked above.

 

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:08 AM

Mark Barnes:
(search).
Not sure what happened to your link Mark.  Looks like the Forum Link Stripping Bug hits again.  

Mark Barnes:
This is where the Pocket Dictionary for the Study of New Testament Greek comes in handy.
Oddly enough I never thought of it, though I own it.  The definitions I provided (however incomplete) were from a study primer I built a number of years back.  :-)

The Greek new Testament Insert (Moods) also provides some excellent help.  

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:11 AM

Quick Links to buy a resource:

the Pocket Dictionary is part of the The Essential IVP Reference Collection Version 3  http://www.logos.com/product/8588/the-essential-ivp-reference-collection-version-3

else the insert is under $5

Greek New Testament Insert -  http://www.logos.com/product/198/greek-new-testament-insert

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:13 AM

steve clark:
unfortunately this link will not set which resources that are to be searched (bug in L4 which has been reported many times here and here and other places).
Good catch Steve, thanks.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 13343
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:14 AM

Thomas Black:
Not sure what happened to your link Mark.  Looks like the Forum Link Stripping Bug hits again.  

My fault. I pasted the search syntax instead of the URL into the box!

Thomas Black:
The Greek new Testament Insert (Moods) also provides some excellent help.

You're right. But as the pocket dictionaries are indexed by headword, I tend to turn to them more often. Just make sure they're prioritised above your English dictionaries, and then double-clicking on the word in another resource will bring up the definition.

 

Posts 1150
Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:50 AM

You may find this interesting, though it doesn't deal with mood it does present some information on "verbal Aspect" by Robert E. Picirilli in The Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society.

 

http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/48/48-3/JETS_48-3_533-555.pdf

 

Posts 218
Scott Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 8:05 AM

Thank you everyone for some pointers, reference suggestions, and how to look this stuff up in Logos.  

Posts 1887
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 8:30 AM

Thomas Black:

Quick Links to buy a resource:

the Pocket Dictionary is part of the The Essential IVP Reference Collection Version 3  http://www.logos.com/product/8588/the-essential-ivp-reference-collection-version-3

else the insert is under $5

Greek New Testament Insert -  http://www.logos.com/product/198/greek-new-testament-insert

A question about the Pocket Dictionary and this collection. I can see that the Pocket Dictionary isn't available as a separate resource. Is there an easy way to find out if any of the other resources in that collection are available as individual resources. I'm guessing that: a) there's no easy way to tell; b) none of them are. ;)

I'm trying to behave and stop spending on resources (for a while), but this set looks pretty good, and that Pocket Dictionary looks super helpful.

Thanks,

Donnie

 

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 8:47 AM

Donnie, 

I do not believe any of the IVP reference collection is sold separately (But I haven't double checked - just going on memory.)

Donnie Hale:
I'm trying to behave and stop spending on resources (for a while), but this set looks pretty good, and that Pocket Dictionary looks super helpful.

There are many users here who have considered the IVP reference collection to be among the most important purchases they have made, often second only to the base package in priority.  

For my money, the Base Package+IVP collection + Theological journals = An incredibly useful and densely packed collection of useful resources.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 1887
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 10:17 AM

Thomas Black:

There are many users here who have considered the IVP reference collection to be among the most important purchases they have made, often second only to the base package in priority.  

For my money, the Base Package+IVP collection + Theological journals = An incredibly useful and densely packed collection of useful resources.

That's good feedback. I have to figure out how to integrate resources that I already along the types in the IVP Collection into the kinds of studies I do (primarily exegetical, so I tend toward lexicons, commentaries, the RIs, etc.). I'm not very good at that, but other threads of late have been helpful in nudging me.

If I may ask a follow-up question - when do you find yourself using the IVP Collection resources the most?

Decisions, decisions...

Donnie

 

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 10:46 AM

Donnie Hale:
That's good feedback. I have to figure out how to integrate resources that I already along the types in the IVP Collection into the kinds of studies I do (primarily exegetical, so I tend toward lexicons, commentaries, the RIs, etc.). I'm not very good at that, but other threads of late have been helpful in nudging me.

Hi Donnie,

The "Black Dictionaries" included in the IVP Reference Collection are probably the main attraction (though each of the other resources has a unique strength, as has been noted about the Pocket Dictionaries).

Most Bible dictionaries seek to summarize information and give background on various biblical people, places, and things. The IVP set is unique in having a slightly different goal. Here are a few interesting quotes from the man who came up with the idea for this set:

I recall that I actually imagined a pastor, who might withdraw from the church office one day a week to work on the sermon, being able to take a Bible, a good commentary and the Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels in one handy package. Likewise, missionaries or pastors working in less economically privileged areas of the world have even less access to library resources and often need to make their book dollars count. I’d taught in the Philippines, and I thought about how wonderful it would be to have a resource that puts teachers and preachers in touch with summaries of recent scholarship bundled into one package. There are important studies salted away in monographs, held at a ransom price by their publishers and not particularly readable for nonspecialists. What if we could put that kind of material into summary form and make it available?

...

One of the simplest rules of thumb we came up with in planning theDJG was that if a topic could be ably and satisfactorily handled within the usual length of a one-volume Bible dictionary, it would almost certainly (there always seem to be exceptions to everything!) not be a topic in "our" dictionary. So all the "nuts & bolts" topics of names, places, etc would be out of our purview, though they might show up as subheads in larger, more broadly conceived, articles in "our" dictionaries. Thus rather than numerous articles on every city, town and village in Palestine, we might have an article on “Geography” and leave the entry on “Capernaum” to a one-volume Bible dictionary or even ISBE or IDB.

...

One more thing, which I did not anticipate initially, turned out to be a common theme: we would encourage authors not only to bring us abreast of the best scholarship past and present, but also to push the borders of knowledge or perspective by trying to make some original contribution, or at least pointing the way forward. As I recall, it was Ralph Martin, indefatigable editor of the DPL and DLNTD, who formulated this principle (though it was already being practiced in theDJG).

...

Over the years a number of contributors have taken us up on that challenge, and I think it has greatly enhanced the value of these dictionaries. I know of at least two ideas for doctoral dissertations that found their inspiration in DPL articles, and I’m confident that there are more.

I hope that gives you an idea of the goals and purposes of the dictionary set in the collection. You can read the entire post on IVP's blog

And, incidentally, we have all of those bible dictionaries he mentions and many more (Encyclopedias in Logos). Well, we don't have the original Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (IDB), but we just posted on pre-pub the brand new edition: New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (5 vols.)

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 10:59 AM

That IVP collection looks so good I think I'm going to save up for it.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 1887
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 10:59 AM

Mike Aubrey:

The "Black Dictionaries" included in the IVP Reference Collection are probably the main attraction (though each of the other resources has a unique strength, as has been noted about the Pocket Dictionaries).

Most Bible dictionaries seek to summarize information and give background on various biblical people, places, and things. The IVP set is unique in having a slightly different goal. Here are a few interesting quotes from the man who came up with the idea for this set:

I hope that gives you an idea of the goals and purposes of the dictionary set in the collection. You can read the entire post on IVP's blog

That's great input, Mike. Guess I'm going to have to break down. ;)

Donnie

 

Posts 13343
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 11:18 AM

Mike's right. The 'black dictionaries' are worth the price of the collection alone. They give detailed, accessible, scholary summaries of almost all the important issues in NT studies. That said, the other dictionaries are also excellent. I rate all the resources included in the collection as four of five stars. Some, like The Dictionary of Biblical Imagery are absolutely unique.

Posts 1887
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 11:40 AM

Just ordered the IVP Collection (plus Theological Journal Library 13). Got a small price break on the former by calling sales.

I appreciate the feedback (as well as the forbearance of the thread originator ;).

Donnie

 

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 28 2011 12:52 PM

Donnie Hale:
If I may ask a follow-up question - when do you find yourself using the IVP Collection resources the most?
Since you've already bought it in my absence from the office I'll just say: whenever I need to find information it has.  :-)

You'll see though, quite the well spent reference money.  

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Page 1 of 1 (19 items) | RSS