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Posts 5317
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 13 2011 5:46 PM

Sean McIntyre:

Slava Novik:

Bob Pritchett:

Scott H. Clark:
I'd still like to hear the official Logos take on this.  Even if that take is "I don't know yet".

Intentionally silent. Our app meets Apples guidelines and we are glad to offer it on the iPhone.

 

Thank you Bob Pritchett so much for the reply!!! I was realy worrying about this issue

I am still confused. Does this mean that Apples statement about requiring you to have in-app purchases for content offered outside, is incorrect? Have Aple changed their mind? Should I buy an iPad? 

Look at the sources for the original tempest, Sony who intentionally  violated apple policy, and the New York times who was told they could not use  their free app in conjunction with external subscriptions. I can't say anything about Amazon other than Apples claim it will never remove the App from the store (the higher ups may know something different, i have no idea). Had Sony offered web based book ordering like Barns and noble amazon and ereader do it would have been acceptable. There is no way to buy books from sony outside of one of their APPS. They can still go this route but if they want to do that on the iPhone app requires their cut.

I am very glad Bob chimed in to confirm the sky is not falling.

-Dan 

Posts 5317
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 13 2011 5:53 PM

Scott H. Clark:

 

This quote from Mark is part of that concern.  I continue to wonder what happens if Apple does zero in on the #1 Bible app.  My hope is that Logos could and would adapt in some way to keep the app functional.  Considering the vast investment made already, I can only assume as much.  I will take your comments to mean as much for now, but please do let us know if that changes before the iPad2 rollout. 

Thank you.

I am sure Apple has nothing against Olivetrees Bible reader.  Big Smile Nor do they have anything against Logos, which one day may take to be the #1 spot in the iPhone as they have in the Windows desktop world and arguably as well in the Mac world.

-Dan

Posts 147
Scott H. Clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 13 2011 8:00 PM

Dan Francis:
I am sure Apple has nothing against Olivetrees Bible reader.  Big Smile

 

LOL.  Well, it'll always be #1 to me.  :)

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 9:18 AM

Well, the bad news is official.  Wonder what it will mean for the Logos app?

http://futurebook.net/content/official-apple-locks-down-kindle-app

Director of Zoeproject 

www.zoeproject.com

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 9:44 AM

Apple press release about subscription service for publishers of all content-based apps => http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html

For subscription content, Apple wants 30 % cut of revenue via in-app purchasing along with forbidding app linking to external web site plus in-app purchasing must offer same or better price as external.

Tony Thomas:

Well, the bad news is official.  Wonder what it will mean for the Logos app?

http://futurebook.net/content/official-apple-locks-down-kindle-app

Concur - not know about future business viability of Logos application for iOS (nor Kindle nor Nook ...).

Wish Apple would allow in-app purchasing price to be 50 % higher (include Apple's 30 % revenue cut and additional cost for second digital store).

Keep Smiling Smile

 

Posts 2809
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 10:29 AM

The way it is worded, the only thing that would be a problem in the Logos app is the links on the front page. Everything else is purchased without links in the app.

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 11:30 AM

June 30 deadline for existing content applications to add in-app purchasing => http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20110215/june-30-deadline-for-apple-subscriptions/

Wonder if Apple sent Logos a memo about June 30 deadline to add in-app purchasing ?

 

Observation: Apple has # 1 (iPhone), # 2 (iPod Touch), and # 6 (iPad) mobile devices worldwide => http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/11/02/15/htc.rapidly.closing.on.top.manufacter.spot/ along with lots of app store sales => http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20032012-37.html

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1875
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 12:08 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Wonder if Apple sent Logos a memo about June 30 deadline to add in-app purchasing ?

Surprise

I hope I can still use Logos on the iPad after that date.

Confused

The Logos app was the only reason that I bought an iPad!

Cool

iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8

MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8

iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1

iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1

Posts 273
Rev. Kelly Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 1:26 PM

This is all much ado about nothing as none of this should mean anything to logos.  You can not purchase any books for the ipad, Iphone, or the ITouch, no matter how much you pay or who you pay.  However, if you purchase a set of books for Logos on your desktop or laptop, you may have visual access to your books via your Ipad, Iphone, or Itouch.  This ditty from apple is only about purchasing content for your I device, but when there is nothing to purchase, and realize that Logos has always said that the app was free as well as the engine, and that you are only viewing what you already own on the I device, then there should be no problem.  

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 3:22 PM

Kelly Todd:
You can not purchase any books for the ipad, Iphone, or the ITouch, no matter how much you pay or who you pay.

Observation: Amazon Kindle and Barnes & Noble Nook business models are similar to Logos for purchasing book license(s) - can purchase a license for viewing on many devices; associated iOS applications are free.

Apple now wants book seller profit if digital content license purchased via Apple's store on iOS devices + not know about future of Kindle and Nook iOS applications.

Kelly Todd:
 However, if you purchase a set of books for Logos on your desktop or laptop, you may have visual access to your books via your Ipad, Iphone, or Itouch.

If Apple rejects free Logos application (for lacking in app purchasing), then future visual access to Logos books on iOS devices may be limited to Biblia.com web site.

By the way, Apple has rejected and removed applications for not complying with Apple's developer's agreement => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_of_apps_%28iOS_apps%29

Alan Macgregor:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Wonder if Apple sent Logos a memo about June 30 deadline to add in-app purchasing ?

Surprise

I hope I can still use Logos on the iPad after that date.

Confused

The Logos app was the only reason that I bought an iPad!

Cool

If Logos rejected, not know if Apple plans to remove application from existing iOS devices - have been able to use an iOS application after removal from Apple's App Store, including downloading new digital content.  Hoping offline search added to Logos iOS application.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1984
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 4:13 PM

Kelly Todd:

This is all much ado about nothing as none of this should mean anything to logos.  You can not purchase any books for the ipad, Iphone, or the ITouch, no matter how much you pay or who you pay.  However, if you purchase a set of books for Logos on your desktop or laptop, you may have visual access to your books via your Ipad, Iphone, or Itouch.  This ditty from apple is only about purchasing content for your I device, but when there is nothing to purchase, and realize that Logos has always said that the app was free as well as the engine, and that you are only viewing what you already own on the I device, then there should be no problem.  

Either you're misreading Apple's comments or you haven't read their latest comments. They've specifically stated that if an iPhone/iPad application allows the purchase of content *outside* of the device, and that content can be accessed by the app when running on the device, then the app has to allow the same purchase to be made via the device, with Apple getting their 30% cut. This is exactly what Logos does, even if the initial purchase may be directed at the Logos desktop environment. In fact, I can't think of any reason why someone couldn't buy every iPhone/iPad-available piece of content that Logos sells, access all of it from their iPhone/iPad, and never install the desktop software. It may not make much sense given the current limitations of the Logos app, but I think it could be done.

Donnie

 

Posts 273
Rev. Kelly Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 4:32 PM

Donnie, yes, I am afraid that someone has missed the point... but in this case it is actually everyone here who is worried about loosing the logos app... and the point is that it is impossible to purchase anything from the app, or from logos and put it in the app.  It may sound like semantics here, but you can not purchase books for your ipone/ipad, you can only purchase them for your Logos 4 computer, and they will become available for viewing on your iphone/ipad.  that is the difference.  with amazon, if you so desire, you can purchase a book right from the iphone/ipad and it will become available as soon as you can download it... you can not do this on the logos app. the Logos app is not designed for sales, so therefore apple can not require it to become such... it is not a sales tool.  If anyone has a an issue with what I say, then just let it play out and you will see what I mean.  worrying about it now, will never solve it!  

Posts 249
DHG | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 4:43 PM

Kelly Todd:
with amazon, if you so desire, you can purchase a book right from the iphone/ipad and it will become available as soon as you can download it... you can not do this on the logos app

I'm missing the distinction. I purchase books for both my Kindle app and my Logos app.  They both work the same way.  The purchase is made on the Amazon/Logos website and then it's available to me in the respective app.  I can't purchase from within the Kindle app...

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 4:50 PM

DHG:

Kelly Todd:
with amazon, if you so desire, you can purchase a book right from the iphone/ipad and it will become available as soon as you can download it... you can not do this on the logos app

I'm missing the distinction. I purchase books for both my Kindle app and my Logos app.  They both work the same way.  The purchase is made on the Amazon/Logos website and then it's available to me in the respective app.  I can't purchase from within the Kindle app...

Concur with missing distinction.  Currently Kindle app on iOS has button for launching Safari browser to Amazon's web store for Kindle.

Semantic observation: Logos purchases are associated with your Logos account - can be viewed on variety of devices including desktop computers.  Currently can purchase Logos resources from Logos web site or Logos sales entering on your behalf - either way order history visible at Logos web site for your account => https://www.logos.com/user/orders

 

Likewise plan to wait and watch along with postponing iPad 2 purchase plans.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1984
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 5:05 PM

Kelly Todd:

Donnie, yes, I am afraid that someone has missed the point... but in this case it is actually everyone here who is worried about loosing the logos app... and the point is that it is impossible to purchase anything from the app, or from logos and put it in the app.  It may sound like semantics here, but you can not purchase books for your ipone/ipad, you can only purchase them for your Logos 4 computer, and they will become available for viewing on your iphone/ipad.  that is the difference.  with amazon, if you so desire, you can purchase a book right from the iphone/ipad and it will become available as soon as you can download it... you can not do this on the logos app. the Logos app is not designed for sales, so therefore apple can not require it to become such... it is not a sales tool.  If anyone has a an issue with what I say, then just let it play out and you will see what I mean.  worrying about it now, will never solve it!  

I understand your point. However, we *can* download our Logos content to the app / device and have it available for offline viewing (thus it is *not* "impossible", as you asserted). With the Kindle app, it's required; with the Logos app, it's optional. So I suppose Apple could let Logos slide (if it's on their radar). Or Logos could remove the "offline" functionality if that's sufficient to make them compliant (which would be horrible as a user). That may have been in Bob Pritchett's mind when he posted his very terse response in this thread.

Note also that Apple has stated that it doesn't matter where you can purchase the content at present. It's whether you can purchase it anywhere and have the content on the device. So *if* Kindle didn't allow purchasing content directly from the device (I know that they do allow it), Apple is saying that since you can purchase it elsewhere (e.g. a regular web browser) and have the content show up on the device, you're out of compliance. You'd have to enhance your application to allow purchasing the same content at the same price via Apple's content purchase mechanisms (you can't even use your own shopping cart).

Even though Apple's hardware is outstanding, I'm a cynic when it comes to Apple's business practices. I don't expect them to back off the letter of their law - if they did, someone like Amazon would have grounds for complaint.

I know if I were Logos, I'd be running toward Android as fast as possible.

Donnie

 

Posts 249
DHG | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 5:17 PM

Donnie Hale:
So *if* Kindle didn't allow purchasing content directly from the device (I know that they do allow it)

I'm running the Kindle app on my iPad, and I'm fairly certain I cannot purchase content directly from my device (from the app, that is).  I have to use a regular web browser.

Posts 1984
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 6:12 PM

DHG:

Donnie Hale:
So *if* Kindle didn't allow purchasing content directly from the device (I know that they do allow it)

I'm running the Kindle app on my iPad, and I'm fairly certain I cannot purchase content directly from my device (from the app, that is).  I have to use a regular web browser.

That is covered in the latest details to come out (the app launches Safari on the device, which is what I meant in my comment). From the comments that Apple released today, the Kindle software has to be updated to make the purchases go through Apple's content purchasing system. Amazon has until summer to make the change.

Donnie

 

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 6:26 PM

Article mentions potential anti-trust concerns => http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/15/apples_app_store_subscription_rules_spark_anti_trust_concerns_as_developers_rage.html

Donnie Hale:
Even though Apple's hardware is outstanding, I'm a cynic when it comes to Apple's business practices. I don't expect them to back off the letter of their law - if they did, someone like Amazon would have grounds for complaint.

If publishers could offer in-app purchasing on iOS devices with 50 % markup, then everybody wins - consumer can chose to use one click convenience within app so $ 150 purchase has $ 45 going to Apple with $ 105 to publisher for $ 100 item in publisher's store (publisher receives $ 5 that helps defray cost of managing orders for 2 digital stores) with same royalties paid to copyright holders.  Appears Apple hoping to bring more customers to publisher via millions of Apple's devices so publisher needs 42.86 % more sales to receive same revenue (e.g. publisher's 21 sales of $ 10 = $ 210 needs 30 sales of $ 10 on iOS for publisher to receive $ 210).

Donnie Hale:
I know if I were Logos, I'd be running toward Android as fast as possible.

Another item on my watch list is Oracle's lawsuit filed against Google about Android - mentioned in forum discussion => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3685/214702.aspx#214702 - later reply include Google's plan to fragment Android market.

Thankful can use Logos application on iPad - currently not have recommendation for future mobile purchase(s) - watching and praying so everyone smiles Geeked

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 442
Tony Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 6:38 PM

It seems that this battle has been brewing for a long time:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/business/media/28media.html

Amazon has established itself as the "low price leader" in the e-book business and Apple clearly wants a cut.   Their reported new policy/strategy will essentially force competitors to hand over most (if not all) of their profit to Apple.  As a result, it will drive e-book prices higher.  That is good news for Apple because it will allow them to make the healthy margins that they have always wanted plus enable them  to take a huge cut of any competitors' profits.  Kind of reminds me of how John D. Rockefeller forced the railroads to give him a rebate not only his oil shipments but also on those of his competitors.  It looks as if Logos and similar app developers are going to be collateral damage in this war.  If Apple requires app developers to sell any products that are available outside of the app inside the app and at the same price, it looks like the Logos app that we have come to know and love will be history.  Also disturbing is the reported possible ban of any books sold outside of the app store from being downloaded by the app. 

It looks like the rebellion against Apple has begun:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/15/rhapsody-wont-bow-to-apples-subscription-policy-issues-statem/

I hope Logos will clarify things soon given this new development.

Director of Zoeproject 

www.zoeproject.com

Posts 286
Sean McIntyre | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 15 2011 10:55 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

If publishers could offer in-app purchasing on iOS devices with 50 % markup, then everybody wins - consumer can chose to use one click convenience within app so $ 150 purchase has $ 45 going to Apple with $ 105 to publisher for $ 100 item in publisher's store (publisher receives $ 5 that helps defray cost of managing orders for 2 digital stores) with same royalties paid to copyright holders.  Appears Apple hoping to bring more customers to publisher via millions of Apple's devices so publisher needs 42.86 % more sales to receive same revenue (e.g. publisher's 21 sales of $ 10 = $ 210 needs 30 sales of $ 10 on iOS for publisher to receive $ 210).

Unfortunately, Apple has said that in-app purchases must be the same or less than the price offered outside the app.

I would really appreciate some clarification from Logos as I am considering an ipad. The last response from them was not very satisfying at all. 

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