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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 16 2011 6:43 PM

Jeff Causey:

Jeffrey Glen Jackson:

My understanding is that Apple is requiring that if you make content available in an app that is sold from outside the app, you must do the following:

1) Also allow that content to be sold in-app through the iStore at the same price

2) Not give any link in-app to ways of buying the content out -of-app

3) Restrict in-app purchases to only be available on an iOs device.

(gleaned from a number of articles and blogs I read over the last few days).  If correct, this seems rather draconian.

Don't 1 and 3 contradict each other?  Or if  not contradict, aren't they working against each other?

Apologies - personally misread # 3 as Restrict in-app purchases to Apple's store on an iOS device Embarrassed

Apple rejected Sony's book reader application since Sony included their own in app purchasing, not Apple's.

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Anonymous | | Replied: Wed, Feb 16 2011 7:15 PM

The way I understand it, content purchased in-app may not be made available outside the iOs device.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 16 2011 7:42 PM

Jeffrey Glen Jackson:

The way I understand it, content purchased in-app may not be made available outside the iOs device.

Apple's press release http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html does not include content restriction outside iOS devices.

Some iOS applications choose to have content only available on iOS devices.

One business response to purchasing digital content using Apple's in app store is limiting content use to iOS devices so consumers need to pay more to use on other platforms.  However, if consumer purchases digital content directly from publisher, content could be freely used on iOS and other devices.

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Jeff Causey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 5:50 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Apple's press release http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html does not include content restriction outside iOS devices.

Some iOS applications choose to have content only available on iOS devices.

One business response to purchasing digital content using Apple's in app store is limiting content use to iOS devices so consumers need to pay more to use on other platforms.  However, if consumer purchases digital content directly from publisher, content could be freely used on iOS and other devices.

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If I'm reading the press release correctly, this only applies to subscriptions?  Not necessarily to content purchased on a "permanent" basis?

Sounds very much like the iTunes model before the market forced Apple to start offering non-DRMed music.

 

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 6:36 AM

Regardless of what they mean by what they are doing now, it is disconcerting to me what they may decide to do in the future. What they are doing now tells us a lot about the extent to which they may be willing to go in the future.

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Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 7:49 AM

Jeffrey Glen Jackson:

The way I understand it, content purchased in-app may not be made available outside the iOs device.

The following comes straight from Apple's developer license agreement (emphasis on the last line added by me):

Attachment 2 (to the Agreement) Additional Terms for Use of the In App Purchase API

The following terms are in addition to the terms of the Agreement and apply to any use of the In App Purchase API in Your Application:

1. Use of the In App Purchase API

1.1 You may use the In App Purchase API only to enable end users to purchase content, functionality, or services that You make available for use within Your Application (e.g. digital books, additional game levels, access to a turn-by-turn map service). You may not use the In App Purchase API to offer goods or services to be used outside of Your Application.

Earlier in the doc:

3.3.3 Without Apple’s prior written approval or as permitted under Section 3.3.23 (In App Purchase API), an Application may not provide, unlock or enable additional features or functionality through distribution mechanisms other than the App Store.

I don't know that this section would apply to something like Logos since we aren't exactly talking features and functionality, but it seems it could apply that companies can receive permission from Apple to enable access to content purchased outside of the app. But, the first quote above certainly indicates that anything purchased through iOS is supposed to stay in iOS. I would guess that this would be to prevent people from writing iOS apps that facilitate illegal activities, so leeway may be given to legitimate digital content providers.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 8:13 AM

Chris Roberts:

Jeffrey Glen Jackson:

The way I understand it, content purchased in-app may not be made available outside the iOs device.

The following comes straight from Apple's developer license agreement (emphasis on the last line added by me):

Attachment 2 (to the Agreement) Additional Terms for Use of the In App Purchase API

The following terms are in addition to the terms of the Agreement and apply to any use of the In App Purchase API in Your Application:

1. Use of the In App Purchase API

1.1 You may use the In App Purchase API only to enable end users to purchase content, functionality, or services that You make available for use within Your Application (e.g. digital books, additional game levels, access to a turn-by-turn map service). You may not use the In App Purchase API to offer goods or services to be used outside of Your Application.

Earlier in the doc:

3.3.3 Without Apple’s prior written approval or as permitted under Section 3.3.23 (In App Purchase API), an Application may not provide, unlock or enable additional features or functionality through distribution mechanisms other than the App Store.

I don't know that this section would apply to something like Logos since we aren't exactly talking features and functionality, but it seems it could apply that companies can receive permission from Apple to enable access to content purchased outside of the app. But, the first quote above certainly indicates that anything purchased through iOS is supposed to stay in iOS. I would guess that this would be to prevent people from writing iOS apps that facilitate illegal activities, so leeway may be given to legitimate digital content providers.

Observation: from a contractual perspective, since content not included in outside restriction line in 1.1, Apple is not restricting digital content purchased on an iOS device to only be accessed on an iOS device.  Appears Apple does not want in app purchasing to be used for eBay, Craigslist, etc.

For section 3.3.3, appears Apple restricting in app purchasing of features and functionality to the App Store; albeit providing developers a documented process for exceptions.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 8:35 AM

Jeff Causey:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Apple's press release http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html does not include content restriction outside iOS devices.

Some iOS applications choose to have content only available on iOS devices.

One business response to purchasing digital content using Apple's in app store is limiting content use to iOS devices so consumers need to pay more to use on other platforms.  However, if consumer purchases digital content directly from publisher, content could be freely used on iOS and other devices.

Keep Smiling Smile

If I'm reading the press release correctly, this only applies to subscriptions?  Not necessarily to content purchased on a "permanent" basis?

Sounds very much like the iTunes model before the market forced Apple to start offering non-DRMed music.

iPhone Development Blog includes descriptions of 3 section 11 additions to Apple App Store review guidelines => http://iphoneincubator.com/blog/

Summarizing: Apple added guideline 11.12 for subscriptions, 11.13 for in app purchasing, and 11.14 for removing links to web store.  Reading blog by an iOS developer, appears in app purchasing now required for all digital content on Apple's iOS devices.

Observation: not know how Apple will enforce new guidelines 11.13 and 11.14 - third blog option is intriguing - wonder if Apple would approve application(s) that comply with 11.14, but not 11.13

Previous Apple iOS App Store review guidelines available => http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/engadget/files/app-store-guidelines.pdf - section 11 ended with guideline 11.11

Concerning non-DRM music, wikipedia article => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management includes "Apple's Steve Jobs has called on the music industry to eliminate DRM in an open letter titled Thoughts on Music.[19]" - following link noted Apple was sued over DRM usage restrictions couple years earlier.

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Jeff Causey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 11:15 AM

Suppose I am a developer of Palm Reader software.  I produce an application for the desktop called Palm Reader Desktop.  This let's me buy pics of palms and I use the software to hone up my palm reading skills.  I can do things like markup the pics, make notes, etc.

My users want an iOS app so they can practice reading palms while away from their desktop.  The only thing they do is view the pics - they don't mark them up, make notes, etc.  It is a slimmed down, limited functionality version of the desktop application.  So I develop such an app.  Using a login in the app, they can access the same palm pics they purchased for the Desktop version on their iOS device.

Now Apple has said that any content purchased outside the app (like through Palm Reader Desktop), but made available in the app, has to also be made available for purchase through the app as well.  This means that I now have to add that functionality to the app (or replace it if I was using some alternative).

OK, costly and not where I wanted to go with the app, but do-able.

Now that I've added the functionality, suppose I have a user who buys a pic of Napolean's palm through the iOS app.  Can they sync that back to the Palm Reader Desktop?  It appears no since the Palm Reader Desktop enables additional features or functionality using the content the user purchased via the iOS app.  Hmm, that's a problem.  If they had purchased it through the Desktop, we'd be ok.  But since they purchased it through the iOS app, we're not.  Seems like my alternatives are to seek a waiver from Apple or build out the iOS app to have all the same features and functionality of the Desktop version.  Are there others?

 

So the above scenario is based on where I think the conversation has taken us to this point.  Where/what are my mistakes?

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 11:18 AM

Jeff Causey:
Where/what are my mistakes?

Your mistake is in using a Palm Reader app as your example. I spent half the post thinking you were talking about some HP Palm device or software! Big Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 17 2011 1:42 PM

Chris Roberts:

Jeff Causey:
Where/what are my mistakes?

Your mistake is in using a Palm Reader app as your example. I spent half the post thinking you were talking about some HP Palm device or software! Big Smile

Observation: in April 2010, HP bought Palm, renamed Palm OS to WebOS => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebOS

Jeff Causey:
Now that I've added the functionality, suppose I have a user who buys a pic of Napolean's palm through the iOS app.  Can they sync that back to the Palm Reader Desktop?  It appears no since the Palm Reader Desktop enables additional features or functionality using the content the user purchased via the iOS app.  Hmm, that's a problem.  If they had purchased it through the Desktop, we'd be ok.  But since they purchased it through the iOS app, we're not.  Seems like my alternatives are to seek a waiver from Apple or build out the iOS app to have all the same features and functionality of the Desktop version.  Are there others?

Disclaimer - not a lawyer - hence offering speculation after reading lots of words at Apple's iTunes Store - Terms and Conditions => http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html#APPS

If Palm Reader iOS application offers minute of illumination for purchase (consumable item) - purchase restricted to 1 device, non-replaceable, and gone after use (e.g. beautiful light and sound effects for a minute).  Can buy another minute of illumination using in app purchase (after iTunes password entered, have 15 minutes to tap purchases).

If Palm Reader iOS application offers rental of moving illumination, viewing limited to that iOS device until rental period expires.

For individuals, Palm Reader iOS application restricted to maximum of 5 iOS devices authorized for use.

Since Palm Reader is a Third Party to Apple, content purchases in app would be subject to Palm Reader's (Third Party) end user license agreement.

Appears Palm Reader's lawyers have 3 options for pic purchase license agreement in iOS application:

1) Free for use in desktop application (albeit Palm Reader received 70 % of purchase price)

2) Offer discount for desktop purchase (e.g. 70 % - Palm Reader gets same revenue for pic; but consumer paid 130% for pic use on both platforms)

3) Restrict iOS pic purchases to iOS devices; require full purchase amount for desktop use.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 25 2011 6:55 PM

Tony Thomas:
Here are some more developments to check out (for those still interested):

Concur web only delivery is a response for Apple in-app purchasing - wonder about future sales impact ?

Likewise learned Google has similar in-app purchasing rules as Apple => http://www.mediabistro.com/thinkmobile/google-has-similar-in-app-purchasing-rules-as-apple_b11202 - could affect upcoming Logos Android application

Google blocked free application upgrade from Android market => http://www.rethink-wireless.com/2011/02/25/google-tough-in-app-purchasing.htm

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